The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => Discussion about "Lesser" makes, er, Non-BMW ;-) => Topic started by: steve hawkins on September 17, 2013, 08:16:03 AM
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http://www.realclassic.co.uk/continental_gt_royal_enfield_535.html
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I like it. I almost never go on interstates anyway.
Honda made a nice factory cafe at one point. I saw it at a show in Corvallis. I think it must have been in the 80s. I only mention it because it was the first (and maybe only) Honda that I lusted after at first sight. If it has the same reliablity as other Hondas it would be a great bke.
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It does look decidedly more modern and bit more upscale, for certain. While I think that I would enjoy riding this more than the SYM Wolf 150, it is still a bit low on output, I think, even for a 500cc single these days. For those without the mechanical capabilities to build their own retro single from the Yamaha SR500, this would be a good fit. That video definitely shows that they are trying to sell an image/emotion with the product, and not actually provide much useful data - this is Marketing 101 these days..
I'd often wondered why they don't try to make a more GS or Adventure styled bike - certainly they've had experience with getting motors to run on very low grade fuel, which I think is important to a "real" adventure bike. These BMW R1200GSA's and others that require super premium fuel doesn't make sense to me if you REALLY expect someone to ride the thing out in the jungles and far from your corner Mobil/BP station. If Enfield made one with more ground clearance, serious forks/suspension, a few more ponies and some luggage capacity, they might take a bite out of the market that is below the cost that the BMW guys can hit with the F650GS/G650..
Ed is thinking of the Honda GB500 - I agree, those were/are some sweet bikes that had the right look, and decent performance. Enfield should aspire to get these cafe-style bikes to that level of performance.
http://www.hondagb500.com/
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Here is another write up about the Royal Enfield
http://www.returnofthecaferacers.com/2013/09/royal-enfield-continental-gt-cafe-racer.html#more
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Great looking bike. I always lusted after the original Continental GT in the late 60's. Be interesting to see how it compares with the Guzzi V7 cafe racer. That has some style too.
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The local BMW dealer that I usually get parts from has been selling Royal Enfield bikes for about 3 years now .
They have quite a few of non-current year new bikes in stock, they don't seem to sell very well, even with discounted pricing .
A few 2-3 year old bikes for sale by private individuals with very low usage, most ads state a lot of electrical parts have been replaced already, mostly the charging system .
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I wish Royal Enfield would get the Diesel powered bullet to the US. 100mpg easy, and heck, once you get a Diesel running, you don't need an electrical system anymore!
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Barry, I have always thought the Motto Guzzi V7 Café Racer was trying a bit too hard. A little bit over done and fussy. I actually preferred the look of the basic bike as a start point. However it still has a 15+bhp on the Enfield - Assuming that 45bhp was what the Guzzi makes.
I think many will not even look at this bike, as they are used to more power than they can handle. And few will stoop so low as to have a bike with less than 30bhp. The old guard, who have been keeping Enfield afloat all this time will probably not buy it as it is a café racer and they are all getting a bit old! ;) So it might be down to the '20 somethings' who have just passed their test and are restricted to sub 33 bhp
They have really gone to town on the marketing of the 60's rockers thing....just not sure the youngsters will connect with it....I don't and I am 47, born in the 60's but cant remember them...in any detail!
good luck anyway.
Rev. Light
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Less than 30 HP doesn't seem much especially for the money and even if it's compensated by good low down torque, that's not what sells bikes. The Enfields do have a good following in the UK, I just think they are pushing the limits on price for what is a relatively unsophisticated bike in comparison to the opposition.
Even though mid capacity bikes are not popular these days I have a soft spot for them particularly singles with a bit of torque. I rode a 400 single with 27HP for 14 years without thinking of it as slow. In fact on acceleration it felt faster than my 35HP R45. That would be down to the torque being developed at lower revs and also because it was 100lbs lighter which makes a big difference.
I look at it this way, most of my riding is done in the midrange so I like some torque at those revs. The power that an engine develops at max. RPM becomes irrelevant if it's never used. On my daily commute it's near impossible for me to exceed 4500 RPM or 60MPH. That equates to 22HP although that would be at full throttle, in practice I'm probably using a good bit less. So I'd be happy to trade some HP for more Torque providing that all of the power is usable. Getting back to that new Enfield I'd be happy with 30HP but I wonder how much of that 30HP is really usable in practice. I've never ridden one but I suspect vibration would deter use of max. power for any length of time and even if it didn't could the engine sustain it in the way an airhead does.
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Barry,
Wise words.
I used to have a Suzuki GSX400S Katana - A grey import Japanese market only copy of the GSX1100 Katana. It used a 400cc 4 pot liquid cooled engine that was limited to 55bhp. But that BHP was a long way up the rev range - and those motors could rev. I had it demonstrated to me once when I was following large single cylinder trail bike up onto the downs to Avebury from Swindon. Every time we stopped, or slowed down, he would then proceed to pull a significant lead out of me whilst I waited for my engine to wind up above 10,000 rpm to where the power was - by that time he had 60 yards on me - we were climbing hills! Ultimately I had the faster bike and eventually over took him, but by the time that I did I was on the flat and exceeding the speed limit.
Its what made me look at simpler single and twins.....
Rev. light
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I wish Royal Enfield would get the Diesel powered bullet to the US.
You don't you know. Whilst the concept is perhaps a good one, the diesel Bullet is just plain nasty. I rode one from Cairns to Townsville, a distance of around 400km and I have never been so glad to get off a motorcycle in my life. They are slow, in fact they redefine the meaning of the word slow, and I cannot even being to describe how bad the vibration is. Worse there is no speed at which the vibration is really tolerable it is just varies from bad to intolerable.
The pity of it is that like you I think a diesel motorbike is a doable and good idea, but the Bullet is not it.
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I had also heard about the diesel enfield being less than stellar to ride on for more than 2 minutes. On the other hand, there is (or was) a production diesel bike developed for the armed services that would probably be perfectly fun and useful -
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4272/
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Shame about the Bullet. If it's really that bad, perhaps I'll put my pipe dream away.
Well, that article pretty much covers the scene.
The Govt' gets a diesel Kawasaki KLR. I think this was the next step after the short lived Rotax powered Harleys... part of getting the military to run on one fuel (diesel, jp... it's all close enough).
There are groups of people out there who have made diesel powered bikes. The Germans hold a rally.
Unfortunately, a lot of the stuff I have heard of stateside is mated to a CVT. Punsen engines are pretty popular, as are some chinese bits.
Diesels would make excellent adventure bikes. They haven't the same fuel quality concerns, and at around 100mpg, you can get a whole lotta range on an average sized tank. With a mechanical injector pump and a manually controlled fuel valve (as opposed to a solenoid), you wouldn't need an electrical system to keep the bike running.
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Don't know if this is the diesel version Royal Enfield they were talking about .
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=yanmar+diesel+engine+royal+enfield&id=5A824A9E408E567C26FD8305916E97A39C99F0CE&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=5A824A9E408E567C26FD231F520B221B52C36618&selectedIndex=6
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Don't know if this is the diesel version Royal Enfield they were talking about .
This can get complicated real quick. Diesel variants started by street mechanics in India fitting diesel power units to worn out Bullets - quality, as you might expect varied wildly. Then the factory decided to get into the act and released an "official" diesel version called "Taurus" - a whole 6 horsepower of bone numbing gutlessness. As you may have worked it, it was a Taurus that I rode for 400 kilometres - each one of which I regret to this day.
It is my understanding that some of the street conversions were better (albeit not by much), but some of them using Ducati or Lomardini diesels diod at least have almost 20hp to play with.
Official production of the Taurus ceased some time ago as it was incapable of meeting emissions laws, however the Enfield factory has apparently announced that there will be a new version "real soon now".
I am interested in how that turns out, but I'll wait till someone else rides one.
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They haven't the same fuel quality concerns,
That simply is not so. Dirty fuel or water contaminated fuel will stop, or even kill a diesel in proportions that will go straight through a standard petrol fuel filter and carb. The fuel "quality" is just as important, if not more so, than fuel quality is to a petrol engine.
The advantage a diesel has is that is far less Catholic about the type of fuel it drinks. You can for example feed a diesel on heating oil cut with a little naptha, or on kerosene (jet A1) with a little engine oil added, and even on stuff like vegetable oil (depending on the engine either "straight" or cut with a little kerosene/petrol/methanol) and of course on trans-estered used cooking oil, the so-called "biodiesel".
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The advantage a diesel has is that is far less Catholic about the type of fuel it drinks. You can for example feed a diesel on heating oil cut with a little naptha, or on kerosene (jet A1) with a little engine oil added, and even on stuff like vegetable oil (depending on the engine either "straight" or cut with a little kerosene/petrol/methanol) and of course on trans-estered used cooking oil, the so-called "biodiesel".
That is what I meant, as in you don't have to worry about finding 93 octane in the middle of the jungle.
Dirty fuel shouldn't be too great a concern as long as you have good filters.. A lot of diesels run more than one filter. My old Mercedes had a course, in-line, primary, and then a fine, spin on type. Newer engines/pumps are tighter and will require better filtration.
Plenty of truck guys (pickup trucks too) have water separators plumbed into their fuel lines to take care of that problem.
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It's not always about us First Worlders -as Harley-Davidson, Polaris/BRM/Can-Am and a few other motorcycle manufacturers have discovered. I recommend reading the aspects of RE's business decisions in the attached article from Cycle World's weekly e-news.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/09/18/2014-royal-enfield-continental-gt-first-ride-review-photos/?cmpid=enews091913&spPodID=020&spMailingID=5732178&spUserID=MjA0MDMxNDg1MDMS1&spJobID=337500887&spReportId=MzM3NTAwODg3S0
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It's not always about us First Worlders -as Harley-Davidson, Polaris/BRM/Can-Am and a few other motorcycle manufacturers have discovered. I recommend reading the aspects of RE's business decisions in the attached article from Cycle World's weekly e-news.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/09/18/2014-royal-enfield-continental-gt-first-ride-review-photos/?cmpid=enews091913&spPodID=020&spMailingID=5732178&spUserID=MjA0MDMxNDg1MDMS1&spJobID=337500887&spReportId=MzM3NTAwODg3S0
Found this on the link .................. sweet
http://www.bikeexif.com/1976-bmw-r75
Lou
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It's not always about us First Worlders -as Harley-Davidson, Polaris/BRM/Can-Am and a few other motorcycle manufacturers have discovered. I recommend reading the aspects of RE's business decisions in the attached article from Cycle World's weekly e-news.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/09/18/2014-royal-enfield-continental-gt-first-ride-review-photos/?cmpid=enews091913&spPodID=020&spMailingID=5732178&spUserID=MjA0MDMxNDg1MDMS1&spJobID=337500887&spReportId=MzM3NTAwODg3S0
Found this on the link .................. sweet
http://www.bikeexif.com/1976-bmw-r75
Lou
That R75 looks kinda cool, but I bet it doesn't corner well with those tires on it! Alot of the exif bikes I think suffer the same issues - interesting styling exercise, but ridability, errr, not so much..
'
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The R75/6 special is very close to what my R65 currently looks like, with the 'patina', now that I have dropped the high handle bars and gone to lower, wider, Renthals.
My bike rides rather well but then my rim are standard BMW with standard tyre sizes (although the front wheel is a 19inch). My biggest bug bears on the R75/6 are:
1. No front mudguard - rendering the bike a sunny day toy only. But at least they put a rear one on!
2. Where is the battery and what size is it? I.e. can it be relied on the start the bike?
But other than that, I like it.
Rev Light
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2. Where is the battery and what size is it? I.e. can it be relied on the start the bike?
My bet is it's a compact lithium battery (should be plenty strong and reliable as long as it doesn't catch fire!) and they hid it in the airbox, which isn't handling air with those pod filters on. Kinda nice, IMO, I've never been fond of the look when the airbox is removed and there's a big right-angle chunk of metal missing.
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I agree with Luca. I dislike the look of a missing airbox. I have seen very nice block off plates made to cover the opening left uncovered but in the end there is still an un-natural looking right angle opening above the gearbox. Everything else is soft rounded curves.
This is the best looking alternative I have found. If/when I decide to go to pod air filters, this is what I intend to replace the airbox with.
http://www.boxercafe.com/startercover.htm
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Thanks for the link. I noticed they sell a "Smog Plug Kit." Perhaps the link can be added to the technical faq/procedure page as a one stop shop for all the necessary EPA deletion bits.
Boxercafe has some pretty cool stuff. Too bad they don't sport R65 sidecovers, although it seems like their other sidecovers are of an improved design.
The airbox cover they make is pretty nifty, but I wonder how the finish of it would compare next to the cast aluminium. Perhaps if everything was aluminized (can you put that on fiberglass?) or painted an even color it wouldn't be so jarring.
I really like what they did with that R75 airbox. I think of the airbox, especially the clamshell unit, like I do car rims... somebody got paid a salary to make sure it looks good.
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That cover looks very nice.
As far as finish is concerned, I would try and generate texture with a hi-build primer, perhaps by holding the rattle can too far away and not rubbing down very much, followed by an aluminium paint....It might work???? You would never match it to the engine.....But the engine is multi-coloured any way
What do we do with the breather under there?
Currently mine exits to the air via a filter.
Same could be done but where to mount it. Unless I just leave it inside.
I wonder if they would send to the UK?
Cheers
Rev. Light
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Just spoke to the folks at BoxerCafe. This starter cover does have a smooth fiberglass finish so in order to match the finish of the engine casting something would have to be done. I like Steve's idea with the hi-build primer.
Duplicolor makes a rattle can engine paint called 'Cast Aluminum' that was recommended to me by a friend with a Corvette. He uses it on cast intake manifolds and I used it on my existing starter cover and clamshell airbox. It is a great match for the engine color and very durable.
Also BoxerCafe ships internationally. He said some of the larger fairings and such get cost prohibitive due to shipping charges but smaller pieces are no problem.
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Prowl the Eastwood website. They offer a remarkable variety of paints and coatings to replicate OEM finishes.
http://www.eastwood.com/
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Motorworks do one as well. Just seen it on their website. By the time I paid the postage and taxes I might as well buy it from them..BoxerCafe would be cheaper if I lived in the 'good ol' U S of A....................