The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => Discussion about "Lesser" makes, er, Non-BMW ;-) => Topic started by: Bob_Roller on October 22, 2012, 08:56:24 PM
-
I've been working on the '82 LS this past week, finally got as far as I can, waiting on rebuild kits for the carbs, should be here early next week .
Bengt Phorqs asked me about a week or so ago, if I had started on the Lario yet, kinda got me motivated .
Got the fuel tank off, got the 6 year old fuel drained out, fuel taps were clogged, so I had to remove them to drain the tank .
Tank is rusted up inside, knew that when I bought the bike, so no surprise there .
Don't know if the fuel taps can be saved, can't get the reserve pathway cleared out on either tap .
Charging system is the same Bosch system as the airheads have, different placement of the components as compared to the airheads, the diode board is located under the left side panel, in the airstream for better cooling .
This bike has a 'linked' brake system, the front brake lever only controls the right caliper, the brake pedal activates the left front caliper and the rear caliper .
The rear brake system appears to be dry of fluid, so I know I have some work there, front brake still works and the reservoir is full of fluid .
Need to get rebuild kits for the Dell Orto carbs, be a new experience there .
Battery is shot, but it looks like I can use the same battery as the airheads, just need to put a hard foam 'shim ' about an inch thick in front of the battery to take up the extra space .
Tires are going to be a bit of a hassle to get, the bike has 16 inch wheels .
All in all, the bike has the appearance of being quite 'owner friendly' when it comes to maintenance, quite similiar to the airhead bikes .
Only minor problem, is that are no older model year Guzzi dealers, or parts suppliers in the Phoenix metro area, looks like I am going to be doing a lot of business with Harpers Moto Guzzi in the Kansas City, Missouri area .
-
Looking forward to the occasional report on this project Bob. Check in on the Wildgoose Chase forum as well. There are lots of knowledgeable folks there that like to hear about restorations. I've often wondered if there is a Guzzi boneyard but have never heard of one mentioned. Larry Chibaro (Lamont Sanford) on ebay does a lot of Guzzi parts.
-
Larry Chabira maintains an eBay site and has frequent MG bits. He will respond to your request for info on unlisted bits. Good guy. Trustworthy.
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/merchant/lamontsanfurd
Bob, Might these work for you?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-Ambassador-Eldorado-Orlandi-Italian-motorcycle-petcocks-w-screens-/230869722073?hash=item35c0e863d9&item=230869722073&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
-
Thanks Monte, but those fuel taps won't work .
The fuel taps I have are similar to the taps on the airheads, but about 75% of the size that threads onto the tank .
I'm going to soak these for a week or so and see what I can do with them .
The fuel tank looks like it will be a couple of week project, don't know which method I'll use, I've got 5 gallons of 10% acid vinegar and kinda want to try the electrolysis method to see how it works .
Not sure if I want to put a liner in the tank or not, kinda guess on how clean the inside of the tank gets .
I've still got a half of can (4-5 fluid ounces) of liner material from doing the '84 LS tank a few years ago .
I just registered at Wild Guzzi, so I should be posting there in a day or two .
My username there : Loser-At-Life ; ^ ) . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Bob I just cleaned out a fuel tank for an LS using vinegar. It didn't have large scaly rust but it was fairly heavy surface rust and loose pieces of the old liner. I used plain white vinegar and salt. The salt reacts with the acetic acid in the vinegar to create sodium acetate and a mild hydrocloric acid. I was amazed. Flushed the tank after 4 days with baking soda and water to neutralize the acid and it was shiny bare metal. It even removed the rest of the old liner. Used Red Kote to reline it and should be good for another 30 years.
-
My username there : Loser-At-Life; ^ ) .
Considering your Lario doesn't run, I would have thought you might choose something like "Roller-Coaster" [smiley=3stooges.gif]
-
Put the vinegar in the tank at 1500 local today, see what it looks like in a week or so .
Marcmax, how much salt did you use for the LS tank ?
May give that a try if things don't progress well .
-
Bob I used a cup of salt in with about 5.5 gallons of vinegar. I did make one mistake though. I tapped a rubber plug into the petcock opening and thought I needed to tap one into the gas filler opening as well, tapped in place pretty snug. One night I heard a bang and a crash come from the garage. The gas build up from dissolving the rust had blown the rubber plug out of the tank and taken out one of the fluorescent lights overhead.
-
Thanks Marcmax !
I found out three years ago, that gas is emitted during the derusting process, I plugged the fuel tap hole, as well as the fuel filler hole, the fuel tap hole stopper let loose first .
I just checked the fuel tank and the deposits nearest the filler opening, are brushing off quite easily, so maybe this won't be a long process .
-
Bob, I'm in the process of uploading snaps from the 2012 Harvest Classic held in lovely downtown Luckenback, Texas (population 3)... really.
This year seemed to be a Guzzi theme. Not only on the show line but the even better show in the motorcycle parking area. Lots n' lots of MGs in so many different guises.
You and Crenshaw would be little little boys in a candy store... or maybe big boys at the Mens Club. ;D Either way works for me.
I'll post a link asap in the Rides Events Parties section.
-
Thanks Monte !!!
The older Guzzi's are a rare sight, at least here in the Phoenix area .
Newer Guzzi's aren't much better, about the only ones I've seen locally, were police bikes and they were being evaluated by local police departments .
-
More progress today, finally got the fuel taps apart and thoroughly cleaned out, so I managed to salvage them !!!
The fuel tank looks like it's going to clean up easily .
There are 'deposits' that are floating on the vinegar surface, I'm beginning to think what I saw on the interior tank surface, may have been old, dried fuel deposits, not rust .
Neighbor one street south of me, he has a silver '82 LS, R1150GS and an '07 Triumph, stopped by when he saw I was working on a bike .
He started messing around with the rear brake, after I told him it appeared 'dry' .
He got the rear tire off of the floor rotated it and put the bake on, the wheel stopped and I couldn't get it to move while he had the pedal depressed .
Proceeded to flush/bleed the entire brake system, the fluid that came out, didn't appear to be in bad condition, at least for now, they appear to be working properly, time will tell if they will develop leaks or not .
Carbs look like they will be the next items to take apart, clean and evaluate .
This bike was parked in April, '06, (I bought it June, '09) due to inability to get the bike through exhaust emissions, bike ran great according to the previous owner, but he gave up on the emissions test, which is part of the yearly registration process .
What he didn't know, is that if the bike is 25 model years old, or older, if you have collector insurance and historic vehicle license plate, the bike (or car) is exempt from the emissions testing .
So this may not be the lengthy job to get this bike back on the road again as I had originally anticipated .
-
Update, removed the carbs, not a bit of sediment or varnish in the carbs, they were as clean as you could ever expect .
Replaced the fuel lines the original lines were the same cloth covered type, that BMW has used since the last ice age .
Replaced the air filter, had a spare in my boxes o' parts that came with the bike, K&N filter was installed and I'm not that fond of those filters, so I put an OEM filter back in .
Drained the engine oil and replaced the filter, no metal chunks in the oil .
Drained and replaced the transmission and final drive oils .
May have a problem with the final drive, there was oil on the rear wheel, no brake shaft on this bike, disc rear brake, so it has the appearance that the output shaft seal may be leaking .
I'll put a few miles on it and see if it stops, if not, then an oil seal replacement .
All in all, things are progressing a lot faster than I had anticipated .
If it wasn't for the fuel tank being cleaned, I could have attempted to fire the engine up and see what I've got !!!!!
Tomorrow, front fork oil change .
-
That's great news Bob. Be sure to attach a few snaps if you have a chance.
-
Got the front fork oil changed, needed the maintenance manual for this, as I would have never figured it out on my own !!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Bengt Phorqs asked for some pictures, here they are !!
Fuel tank being de-gunked .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture036-1.jpg&hash=4fcfb2810320581b0aadc627a45b8d28f97edfec)
Instrument cluster . Notice how the tachometer is the focalpoint, the speedometer is there if you really wanted to look at it . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture038-1-1.jpg&hash=6ad9d32511b8f9a692c163d02108b03d3a3c0d24)
Same crappy fuses that the R65 has .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture033-1.jpg&hash=1ce08ce9fdf14d5c34691e3167f290b5eb0638a0)
Left fork tube top .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture031-1.jpg&hash=e8de5398f2ca1ee7fc8032507e07367524d26add)
Right fork top, there's an interconnect tube between the fork tops, for adding air to the front forks .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture035-1.jpg&hash=f5df634507bfde74c18fb39528693183645181a2)
Diode board .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture032-1-1.jpg&hash=43093b869c949031c3ecb4d59f226e0ccc297c4f)
Linked front and rear brake master cylinder, voltage regulator in the upper left hand corner .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture028-1.jpg&hash=4b3aee014c03c255f3c5ee88b5446b1fa46cf285)
Same Bosch starter as the airhead BMW's, output gear that engages the flywheel, has one or two fewer teeth .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture037-1.jpg&hash=75bcf70cabf4d12604de2a87ef4981cdb14f0a98)
One of the Dyna 'green' ignition coils, previous owner added a Dyna electronic ignition system, to replace the points type system .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture030-1.jpg&hash=aec5bc8c404accf16aaa195679856252ac3f0517)
Right Dell Orto carb, the fuel inlet has a last chance flat filter disc, under the inlet fitting .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture029-1.jpg&hash=199e4d0fd657b776a7d6b281ab121b86263db1d8)
Left cylinder and left side of bike .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture026-1.jpg&hash=aaa182d9dafcfcc4779dab7092db1251eaad2b7e)
Here's a picture from about a year ago, fully assembled .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FBikes%2520and%2520Cars%2FPicture022-1-1.jpg&hash=8c0992cd090d5c95a95e8d61f610a00effb92097)
-
Looking good Bob and some familiar components there. I could easily develop a soft spot for a red Guzzi.
-
I still can't get over how clean these southwest bikes look - if that was up here, there would be rust and pitted chrome bits everywhere.
g
It looks great - I am sure that it will get sorted out quickly and be a blast!
The tough part is going to be that small front tire - the early 80s flirtation with small front tires to enhance turn-in/reduce gyroscopic effects was definitely misguided, and thankfully short-lived... but finding tires to fit those hoops is a PITA. There are still enough cruiser style bikes around the 16" rears aren't as hard to find - but there are not alot of choices there either.
-
I posted on the Wild Guzzi forum this morning about tires .
I found Metzeler Lazertec tires, in 16 inch size, correct front tire, but the narrowest rear tire is a 130, the bike takes a 120 width rear .
One member posted about a shop that has Pirelli tires in the correct size, they are even local for me, 10-20 minute drive there .
Cost for the two tires including local sales tax is around $170US, then I need to get them mounted, they only sell tires, not mount them .
In a lot of cases, the good physical condition of the bike, is the reason the prices are higher in this area .
But on the down side, they tend to be higher mileage bikes as well .
-
Hey Bob!
Look at what I found in our areas CL ads today - do you want it?
http://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/3302265370.html
-
That's a great find !!!!!
I just checked the factory manual and from what I can tell, the Lario was the only Guzzi 650 that had a 16 inch front wheel, the rest were 18 inch fronts with single disc and 16 inch rear wheels .
Thanks for the heads up !!!
-
If you want it and the seller doesn't want to ship it to you, let me know and I'd be willing to pick it up and ship it to you.
-
Drained the vinegar out of the tank and pressure washed the interior of the tank .
I could not believe the amount of crap that came out .
Turned the tank upside down put the fuel filler cap on the tank and refilled it from the bottom fuel tap hole, I left the level of vinegar about an inch or so below the filler hole, so I know the very top of the tank didn't get treated with the vinegar .
I think I'll wait to put the POR 15 liner in the tank, until I get back to work, I can use a bore scope and look at the interior of the tank, just to make sure I got all of the debris out of it .
-
Sweet lookin' Goose, Bob!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
-
The fuel filler cap did not like the vinegar, got a leak after 4 days, drained the vinegar took the fuel cap off and the spring steel tabs that catch under the lip on the filler hole, corroded away and broke when I removed the cap .
Rinsed the tank out with water and got an awful lot of 'debris' out of it again .
Went to the local auto parts store and found a replacement fuel cap that will stand up to the vinegar .
Strained the vinegar with paper towels and a funnel, put it back into the inverted fuel tank, give it another 5-7 days and see what I have .
-
Drained the vinegar out of the tank this afternoon and flushed it with water from a garden hose .
I think I finally have gotten all of the rust out of the tank .
I've gotten about 6 cups of gritty rust out of the tank in total .
I'll take the fuel tank into work this week and have a look inside with a bore-scope to make sure it's clean before I put the POR15 sealer in it .
I'm 'blow drying' the tank now, I've got a hose connected to the outlet of a shop wet/dry vac and blowing into the fuel filler .
The air contains the cooling air from the motor, so it's about 100 F .
Does a quick job of drying the tank out .
This is my first time using white distilled vinegar (10% acid) to remove rust from a fuel tank and it does a great job, given a few weeks to work .
Won't harm the paint either if it gets on a painted surface and easy to dispose of when you're finished .
-
Finally got the POR15 sealer late last week, the company I ordered from, was out of stock on the 8 fluid ounce (237 ml) can of sealant .
The sealant was $11.25US, the shipping cost about $12US, a HAZMAT item, flammable, but it still was more cost efficient than getting the motorcycle kit from POR15, it's around $45US locally .
Got the sealant in the tank this afternoon, it was a bit more of an effort to get this tank fully covered as compared to the R65 fuel tank .
I'm going to let it sit for about two weeks to fully cure, I have the tank outside in the sun right now, if you're directly in the sun, the temps are still getting into the mid 90's F here still, air temp in the shade is around 70 F., worked up a sweat working on the oilhead this afternoon .
Removed the alternator drive belt yesterday, took it to the local auto parts stores to see if I could get a non-OEM part for a lower cost, but no luck, put the old belt back on this afternoon, so it looks like I go to the local BMW dealer after work tomorrow to get it .
So, hopefully I'll get the engine fired up for the first time on the Lario, or at least attempt to, before the end of the year .
-
Looks in nice condition