The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => Discussion about "Lesser" makes, er, Non-BMW ;-) => Topic started by: Vegasrandall on February 04, 2011, 03:41:45 PM
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Harley miles are like dog years
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Harley, Harley made of tin
Ride it out, push it in
(The other side used to reply:
Want some grief? Get a Chief
Want some more? Get a Four)
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Bout Sums it up.
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Are they really that bad? ;D
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Are they really that bad? ;D
No, not really. For me, it's the faux lifestyle projected by so many of the fair weather HD peeps.
Years ago, my wife accepted my motorcycles but clearly and firmly stated, "We are not going to dress like trash".
Monte [smiley=beehive.gif]
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Some years ago the "smaller" HD was available here in European form (low handlebar, big tank, big headlight....) and had a reasonable price ticket. Also had got away from the AMF bad reputation. I nearly bought one but in the end did not, simply because I did not want to associated, even distantly, with the HD image of pot-gutted tattooed knife-wielding thugs dressed in a homo-erotic mix of leather and chains! Maybe they aren't all like that?
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Having owned 16 motorcycles in my life, I've come to appreciate all makes and recognize the pros and cons of each. I think we will all agree Harley-Davidson marketing is genius. They've turned riding a motorcycle into a lifestyle, riders into Bikers and motorcycles into Harley's. Now, that brings me to my point. These "Bikers" usually have attitudes I can't deal with. M-F they are our co-workers. The weekend comes and they are transformed into Bad Ass Bikers. I actually had to break ties with a group of guys because of this attitude.
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Along the lines of HD's brilliant marketing strategies, John Bloor and his new Hinckley Triumph company studied the HD plan and adopted a closely modified strategy of their own. It's working...
Every time my wife and I visit a Triumph dealership, SWWBO makes a bee-line to the clothing offerings. I have to admit, the Triumph-branded quality is there (as planned by Bloor) along with matching prices. Our closets with BMW-labeled clothing are filling with the same items but now with Triumph labels. Not a bad thing. Ya gotta wear something other than HD wife beater undershirts and latigo chaps.
BTW, there's a poor sod in town riding his beater Honda with stretched forks and a sissy bar while wearing full HD-branded regalia. Too funny.
Monte
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"Would you fly in a plane Harley made?"
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I've got a Harley....
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefont.info%2Ftemp%2FBlackjacksEvo.jpg&hash=468bbdd44b61d31ba0239a9c95ffce38fc0097b7)
What can I tell you?
I like four stroke twins....
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"Would you fly in a plane Harley made?"
Ha! I fly in airplanes that I've made.
Bit of aviation & HD history...
Back in the 1920s, a Swedish immigrant gentleman by the name of Bernard Pietenpol designed and constructed his first homebuilt aircraft.
Powered by a lightly modified Harley-Davidson V-twin, the little single-seater would not fly out of ground effect. Bernie nicknamed this plane the Hardly-Ableson. Later, his 1929 design tandem-seat Pietenpol, powered by a modified Ford Model T 4-cylinder, became one of the most constructed homebuilt aircraft of the era.
I built and flew my Pietenpol with a self-built VW engine.
Monte
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I think that when Harley got away from the AMF era, the quality of the bikes went up notably, they weren't just making as many units as they could, at the expense of quality control .
As far as today's Harley's, they are on par quality and reliability wise with the rest of the motorcycle manufacturers .
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Years ago, my wife accepted my motorcycles but clearly and firmly stated, "We are not going to dress like trash".
Monte [smiley=beehive.gif]
[/quote]
Ditto when my wife started to show an interest in reenacting i thought it would be short lived but to my surprise she loves it i get to go cowboying while she has a ball with the Victorian (expensive) ladies outfits.
As for Harleys i am occasionally drawn to the dark side but you can never say never, to date i have never riden one but spend plenty of time claiming free coffee and burgers at the open days sitting on them chatting to my favourite sales lady.
Lou
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I'd love to own a V-twin. But The Guzzi just doesn't do it for me. Besides I have a BMW R65. The old BSA's are just way too expensive. The Harley I test rode had too small a fuel tank, the front rotors were warped and the bike was just too heavy. On a slight incline it almost rolled off the sidestand because I didn't leave it in gear. Oh and there was no center stand!!!!
The Ducatti is just too uncomfortable for me to ride. I thought Yamaha was going to make the beautiful XS-V1 but it didn't happen.
(sigh)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi201.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa12%2FSemper_Gumby%2Fxs-v1_main.jpg&hash=d1df1ba6e97fcdf0390b5cee8df86f8269be6940)
Another beautiful bike I can't have. The Dick Mann BSA Y13 750cc...
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi201.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa12%2FSemper_Gumby%2FBSA-Y13-DickMann-Rcrop_400.jpg&hash=67406ab4ac6a58196e6c16cb4c55cc3fff44e950)
There was a Harley I wanted years ago. I saw it in Cycle World about 1978ish. Somebody took an XR dirt racing frame and put a big bore motor on it at about 1100cc, alloy wheels, tripple disks and a small headlamp. They claimed it would go 170 mph and I was in lust. Of course this bike was light, simple, nible and very very fast. Harley despite its long racing heritage will not even consider such a machine. The XR1200 street trackers that they make now are just so big and clunky looking that I find myself just walking away. The only real part of Harley that I would consider would be one of Eric Buells machines and Harley just amputated them. Unfortunately there is nothing Harley about a late model Buell.
My buddy Fast Ron Mass and his Buell 1125R liquid-cooled v-twin (purpose built Rotax motor) - the fastest motorcycle I have ever ridden.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi201.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa12%2FSemper_Gumby%2FRonMassandhis1175Rsm.jpg&hash=cc052c8b9b1c0bf0a7e1f6f3107480e2a2120e7c)
Unfortunately I'm too tall for the Buell.
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I'm still drooling over that BSA V twin.... I wonder why Triumph never (to my knowledge) made one. They had a write up in one of my old The Classic Motorcycle magazines about the BSA.
I would have better luck acquiring an Indian.
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Common Harley. Shave some weight off that Mother and have at it! You can do it. I know you can! ::)
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I think that the AMF years really (and deservedly) gave H-D a black eye (and broken jaw, bruises, and other injuries) as those bikes often would literally come apart, or so have the couple that I've seen.
Now I wouldn't mind an Evo engined machine, provided that that it was with a carb (I've seen alot of their bikes with Fuel injection issues on the side of the road) AND that it was a bike with what I'd consider reasonable ergonomics, like a Fatboy or a RoadKing - no DynaSuperUltraWideSporterGlides for me, thanks.
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Smart man. He wants to live the 'lifestyle' but knows enough to ride a dependable bike. ;D
The windscreen of my Honda Rebel has both a Moto Guzzi National Owners Club sticker and a BMW MOA sticker on it. We were headed to WI and were at a rest stop on the north side of Beartooth Pass and some guy was looking at the Rebel and says, "This is a Honda, right?" "Yes". "Then how come you have a BMW and a Guzzi sticker on it?" "Because I own Guzzi's and BMW's and am a member of both clubs". "But this is a Honda, why would you put a Guzzi and a BMW sticker on a Honda?" He just couldn't understand why i would do that. ::)
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We R65 folks might feel good about this, but I'm not sure riders of modern BMWs should feel too superior to "inferior" brands. Consider this:
A fellow member of my local Mac [computer] user group is a long-time rider, owned an independent auto repair garage for ~30 years, was part-owner of a Mac retail store, and now works in the service department of a local cycle dealer that sells BMW, H-D, Ducati, and Yamaha. He stated about two years ago that he the most reliable bikes of the four brands were Yammies, with Ducs being second. He placed recent-model Beemers a distant third and H-D at the bottom. (He was especially critical of H-D's factory quality control.)
BTW, he stated that he once owned an R75. He liked the bike, but he felt that (like our R65s) the R75 was light for serious Interstate riding. He compared the R75 with a Norton Commando regarding its weight and handling in wind and heavy truck traffic. I've never ridden a Norton, so I can't say from my own experience. YMMV.
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I have a 94 Dyna-glide, it's not the best at anything, but it's a nice comfortable, all around bike, I like it. With the exception of one or two, my buddies are all hard core Harley guys, relegated to only riding two or three months a year, due to the costume restraints. I ride all winter, as long as the roads are dry. My buddies told me I needed to get chaps ( I was riding in Carhart overalls in cold weather, LOL), wore them a couple times and gave them away, got some leather pants. When I pulled up at my club in a full face helmet, one guy told me that I needed to get a half helmet, as I "didn't look like a biker", LMAO. Mostly good guys, they were supportive of my first bike, a CB750, and are in awe of my Triumph Rocket III.
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I'd rather push a BMW, than ride a Harley Davidson.
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I'd rather push a BMW, than ride a Harley Davidson.
Having read (and kept a copy of) your rant regarding H-D riders where you are, I can understand your attitude! ;D
BTW, it has been quite a while since you posted that piece. It might provide amusement to our newer members if you posted it again sometime in the future.
John
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I will do so right now! However as I went independent in the security consulting biz at the beginning of the year, I've only ridden the boxer twice - bloody customers won't leave me alone!
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Over the weekend I saw and heard an XR1200. It looked good and had a pleasent sound. It got me thinking. If you put a 21inch front wheel on and a set of dualsport tires and some panniers, and a bigger tank it would make a interesting dualsport bike.
Just thinkin'
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I will do so right now! However as I went independent in the security consulting biz at the beginning of the year, I've only ridden the boxer twice - bloody customers won't leave me alone!
If you can't keep them out, are you sure you're in the right line of work????
;D
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To use an old military expression, they are acting like 'pathetic civilians'!
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Interesting read guys. I've owned a couple of Harley's over the years. About 10 years ago I worked with a hard core HD rider and got seduced into buying his 1962 FL (panhead) custom. It was a hardtail with ape hangers and it was kickstart only. I loved that bike even though I had to tighten bolts periodically. It was just the right fit for my 6'3" frame and was a blast to ride. However, I wanted a bike I could feel secure riding interstate. So i sold that bike and bought a '06 VStrom 650.
VStrom: fantastic bike. I rode this from Montana (Malmstrom AFB) to California (Vandenberg AFB), 1500 miles each way. Stock seat kind of burned but I had a custom one made by Rick Mayer and it was a dream to ride on. I got 45mpg and could cruise at 75mph easily. On top of that I could handle any road that I came to. Brought that bike to Germany and it was the perfect bike to ride the secondary roads in my area. Comfortable one or two up but a bit underpowered with two. Sold that bike two years ago so I could take a vacation to Australia.
Realizing I couldn't be without a bike I found a great deal on a 2007 HD Softtail Std. Nice bike, loads of power and great for posing. I had to change the seat and extend the forward controls out another 3" to make it comfortable though. I found the bike heavy to steer compared to my VStrom (no surprise) but it was fun to ride and always got attention. However, my wife didn't like riding on it and the loud pipes started to get annoying. I eventually put the stock pipes back on for my own comfort and to get less negative attention from the Germans. I took a 1-1/2 hour ride to Ramstein and realized how uncomfortable it was for long trips. For me it was great around town but did not offer the practicality I was looking for in a bike. Sold.
I test drove a brand new R1200GS and R1200R after the HD sold. R1200R - great fun and incredibly stable bike. A bit too small for me though. I actually like the older R1150R better. R1200GS - WOW. What fun, stable, fast, powerful. Everything I want in a bike. I could have swallowed the price tag but the insurance over here was unacceptable. If I wasn't about to retire from the AF and had a new job lined up I might have bought it.
So, brings me to my current rides. Yeah, rides. For half the price of my HD I bought a R100GS and a R65. Allowed me to exercise my passion for old bikes and am enjoying both like I did my old Panhead. I would readily ride either of these bikes across europe. They are fun to ride, cheap (insurance and operation) and give me something to tinker with while I'm enjoying a cold Belgian beer. My mistake with the R100GS is that it's too new and I can't take it back to the states with me (see the trading post). Took my wife for a ride on both this last weekend and she was happy with both rides.
I too ride daily as long as there is no ice on the road. I probably get more attention on my old (unique) BMW's. People don't just look because the heard my go by, they come up and ask me about the bike. I don't think I'll ever buy another HD unless I'm planing on flipping it for profit. I've never ridden a full dress HD tour bike but all the others are just not practical enough for me.
Sorry for the long post but wanted to get my two cents in.
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In the US anyway, I think that the days of flipping Harleys for a profit (or at least, no net loss after riding them for a couple years) are definitely gone/passed. The MOST commonly advertised bikes for sale in my region are all H-Ds, and the prices, sink lower and lower each week, until eventually some of them do sell for a more realistic price.. In Europe, H-Ds are still probably rare enough that they might be holding their value better?
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No, I think the truth for HD is the same over here. There are several HD dealerships in Germany and the Germans are more likely to purchase there vs. buying from an American. Too much hassle with converting to euro spec and paying duty when they buy from Americans unless they are buying a custom bike. I just happened on a good deal as you described. The seller wasn't getting any traction on his sale and i worked him down to a good price. I made a custom sissy bar and did a couple of other upgrades but mostly I marketed the bike better than PO. I rode it for a year and broke even.
There are lots of Sportsters that are great candidates for customization. Guy buys his first bike (Sportster) then realizes he wants a bigger bike or just gets tired of his buddies razzing him for riding a little girl bike so he puts it up for sale. Nobody wants to buy a used Sportster when he can buy one new through military car sales at a great price anyway with warranty. I've seen some 3-5 year old 883 Sportsters selling for about $4K. If you know what you're doing you can build a cool custom and sell it for double. You know those HD guys are all about the look. Most of the HD guys I know won't or can't work on their own bikes so if they see what they want they'll pay for it.
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"In Europe, H-Ds are still probably rare enough that they might be holding their value better?:
What value?
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Over the weekend I saw and heard an XR1200.It looked good and had a pleasent sound.It got me thinking.If you put a 21inch front wheel on and a set of dualsport tires and some panniers, and a bigger tank it would make a interesting dualsport bike.
Just thinkin'
It's being done right now. Sort of an interesting ride report. Doug is quite a character. Met him at Barber's last year.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=681994&highlight=Magadan
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Harley Truth - Truth is you guys are missing out on a lot of fun - Harley is building some great bikes - I own 2 BMW's & one Harley - I love all three bikes - I sold my 2008 Goldwing, Great motorcycle - Over-all the finest touring motorcycle ever built - Also so perfect very boring - Truth is the Goldwing is a better motorcycle then a HD in many ways - so why did i sell it - the Harley is twice as fun - I love the feel of the Harley - Yep - Shake - Rattle & Roll! A person can choose who he wants to ride with - how they want to dress - I don't belong to any clubs - not even H.O.G. - I wear a full face Schuler C3 helmet most of the time - I haven't wore my leather Jacket in years but i'm not going to part with it - Harley's don't hold their value like they did in 2006 but what does - It's not only HD dealers going out of business - it a cold world out there right now - It might get a little colder before it starts back up - Just enjoy what you like - My baby - all 800 pounds of her! made for the big road - If I'm going on a 1,000 mile trip or a 3,000 mile run - I'll take my HD over my R65 - your results my differ :)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpic20.picturetrail.com%3A80%2FVOL93%2F471113%2F24014616%2F400861339.jpg&hash=eb53eb1ff330cf6b4281e37ba1b43eb62a3b5e4f)
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That should have been a Schuberth C3 helmet -
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpic20.picturetrail.com%3A80%2FVOL93%2F471113%2F23735369%2F400445954.jpg&hash=b051e353003b0c3e779a9351d0a427a6fff9d52a)
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Harley Truth - Truth is you guys are missing out on a lot of fun - Harley is building some great bikes
I have only owned one Harley powered bike, a 1999 Buell. I was impressed with what a great motor the 1203cc twin is, just awesome. Felt like a "real " motorcycle engine, and had bags of power where I needed it for street riding.
And it sounded cool too!! ( my son firing it off on the way to the store)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wy4NVMwLnA
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Harley & BMW are in a battle with the Mr. Obama’s EPA – That’s why BMW is bringing out a water pumper – Harley has the V-Rod water pumper – My Harley Ultra Classic runs so lean next week I’m going to change the exhaust – might be a tad louder but not much – Adding a K&N filter system to get more air in – A power commander and a $275.00 tune – All this just so the bike will run cooler and it will add 20 rear wheel HP – I don't really care about the 20 HP but I'll take it - It will go on a dyno – Part of the tune fee’s – but this will also extend engine life as well as give a little HP gain - Plus install an oil cooler – expensive – about $1,300.00 – All air cool motors are dinosaurs – I just happy I am able to enjoy these engines – When I ride my Ultra I get much the same feeling I get when I ride the r65 – Old School. I love these new Harleys - Just a shame we spend a chunk of dollars & then have to do this other expence but thats just the way things are. Tom
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Bout Sums it up.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpic20.picturetrail.com%3A80%2FVOL93%2F471113%2F23735369%2F400955351.jpg&hash=041ce1a6e69af180f08267aedfd308542df70380)
LMAO - do you really think HD has BMW beat in this dept?????? Only BMW can sell 700 pound bikes & call them dirt bikes- The GS is a great bike & will live on in history - but I bought into that BMW - GS Hype - It's an adventure bike alright - I know I had some adventures when riding my GS - No more monster dirt bikes - I say that but if I ran in a r80 GS i might go for it to just ride the dirt logging roades on & stay on the road! tom
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I made offer on a 1999 Harley Sportster today - Not so sure it will happen But there's not a shortage of used motorcycles for sale if it doesn't - It a very nice 1200cc - Lot's of mods - very senior owner - One of the most underated motorcycles on the market - Name plates come & go - The Sportster has been around a long time & will be here until they out law air cool engines - Can't wait for my water cooled lawn mower.
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Harley Truth - Truth is you guys are missing out on a lot of fun - Harley is building some great bikes
I have only owned one Harley powered bike, a 1999 Buell. I was impressed with what a great motor the 1203cc twin is, just awesome. Felt like a "real " motorcycle engine, and had bags of power where I needed it for street riding.
And it sounded cool too!! ( my son firing it off on the way to the store)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wy4NVMwLnA
Buell's are really fun bikes - I have rode a couple - never owned one - I got that same feeling as I do when riding the r65 - HD Sportster, Buell & BMW airhead - all in the same fun family -