The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => Discussion about "Lesser" makes, er, Non-BMW ;-) => Topic started by: larstorders on January 11, 2009, 02:39:38 PM
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Eighteen months + after a return to motorcycling, I'm ready for a second machine to keep my R65 company.
Can't really make my mind up, though. Great machines like V stroms are very practical but pointless for me as I've found my R65 and late 70s/ 80s BMs in general are awesome for covering big distances. Cumfy to ride etc and fairly fixable if they break during the trip.
I'd like something with plenty of character that could cope with an occaisional long trip.
Had passing thoughts of a Multistrada. Viewed a mint Norton Commando ! So far I'm most drawn to a KTM adventure. All very different, I know.
So, what other bikes do the rest of you like, and own.
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For the sake of your sanity, I would avoid Nortons like the.... I am currently "between Nortons", and if I had any functional brain cells I would stay here. Perhaps the ( ahem ) best looking, best sounding bike ever. Shudder. If I had any spare coin I would be thinking Kawasaki Versys.
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We currently have six bikes in our stable... of course, with both of us riding, that doubles the number of bikes we 'need'. We have our 2 beemers (R65 & R100) for our touring, 2 Laverdas for our sport bike riding in the mountain twisties and we recently picked up 2 Lifan dirt bikes. Something for every occasion. Just need to find the time to ride them all!
Graham had one of the first BMW F650s (1997) and it was a good all around bike. Even took the traveling well, he took it from Key West to Maine. Finally traded it for the Laverda because he felt so bad about neglecting his R100...
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fastcataz. thanks for that injection of sanity. I once owned a commando and the good memories had quite blotted out it's 'short comings'.
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Geeze, My good bike is my LS. Have a couple of 70's vintage triumphs just to keep the tool inventory in use. Modern bikes are a bit beyond my reach.
rich
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I still have the bike that I bought after I sold my 88 R100RT - it was a brand new 98 Kawasaki Concours (GTR1000 on your side of the pond, I believe). It had a comfy, sizable fairing with good protection, alot of luggage capacity, is actually very reliable and simple compared to modern bikes which makes it relatively user-friendly to wrench on (I do my own valve adjustments for example - but there are 16 of them to do compared to the 4 on the R65/R100). One could sort of compare it to a K1100RS or K100RS with bigger fairing and bags, but it is actually comfier and easier to zing through the twisties with it. The new 2007 and later Concours is a monster 1400cc , 150 HP beast and is very complex, in comparison. They are nice, but all the new electronic gizmos have had their recalls and teething problems - I'm keeping my 10 year-old, "only" 110 HP Concours for quite some time yet - it is the closest bike to a "Japanse BMW" that I have ever found. The Concours riders group even have "KMW" stickers made up (with a rondel that uses KAwasaki Team green instead of Bavarian Blue) to stick on their bikes as they are frequently mistaken for BMWs by cagers and other non-BMW riders. It easily handles 600+ mile days, day after day, and since the basic design of the earlier Concours lasted from 1985 - 2006 there are many parts, aftermarket accessories, etc to be had for it.
But, it isn't a bike for shorter riders - seat height with the standard seat is over 31 inches anyhow, and it carries its weight higher up, being rather top heavy when its large (7.5 gallon) fuel tank is full. Still, it can manage its weight pretty well when ridden briskly, and I generally haven't even switched to reserve yet when my cousin on his K100 is sucking fumes and desperately seeking a fuel station. Since the new models have been out for going on 2 years now, and they have almost nothing in common part-wise with the earlier 20+ eyar run of bikes, you can often find these in good condition, used, for relatively low price, if you're looking for a sport tourer that can really do long touring spells.
I'm still looking for an R100 or R80 to add to my stable, as my R65 is alot of fun but I am too tall to enjoy long distance riding on it, but I want to have that big airhead feeling again. I may even consider adding a sidecar to a bigger airhead, as they just seem too cool and I could even come up with some reasonable rationalizations for one - including taking my dog with me, local grocery trips, and traveling to work or band gigs with my instruments.
What sorts of riding/uses do you envision for this new bike - would help us make better suggestions.
+1 on the Kawasaki Versys - they seem like a decent "swiss army knife" of a bike. The Multistrada has a certain flair, especially if you're an Italian marque afficionado, but I think it is a much more expensive, higher maintenance item than the Versys (though Multistrada comes with a more powerful engine). The V-strom in 650 or 1000cc flavors are good bikes too - I believe that KAwasaki was specifically targeting direct competition with the 650 Vstrom when they released the Versys.
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I love the BSA's. Great sound and good handling. I ride the Thunderbolt so much that I'm neglecting the BMW (excepting trips to work).
TTFN,
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Its interesting to hear about your other bikes and reasons for choosing them. My habits mean I need to carry enough luggage for a couple of days as my rides are often to see family or friends hundreds of miles away. Being middle aged, I'm not into race replicas or top speed any more, but good handling and acceleration on steep hilly routes would be nice. The recent BMs are not for me though.
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Don't really know why... but I wouldn't mind a Laverda Jota, or SFC but for luggage needs - maybe a Laverda RGS / Exec?
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I quite often stop at local bike dealers to have a look at what is being offered. But to be honest, the vast majority just do nothing for me - even BMW. Recently I have looked at Motoguzzi as they have produce 1 or 2 models of note in the passed 10 years after the styling disasters of the 80's and early 90's - but I have never come across one at the right time and price.
Now and again, I see a retro bike that sort of hits the mark, but then I factor in the purchase price and the following the usual freefall depreciation and it all goes a bit sour.
I like a certain involvement with my bikes that is more than just riding it. I like to tinker. Not being able to tinker because of a warrantee would annoy me. Having a new bike without a warrantee will just accelerate the depreciation.
I like bikes where I can see the engine. I like my engines to look like an engines. I am a fan of aircooled engines with fins, not rubber pipes and radiators. I like bikes from the 70's and early 80's. The British bike industry was all over by the time I grew up, so I feel little affinity to them. Although I like their general style on the whole. I am attracted to some Italian makes, like Laverda and Motoguzzi, but strangely not Ducati - except for the style of their singles.
I like an underlying reputation for reliability and longevity. I like to be able to source spares at reasonable cost (usually second hand). I like the notion of covering long distances at a deceptive speed without drama. My dream garage would include have the following:
Laverda SFC
Moto Guzzi Le Mans Mk1
Moto Guzzi 1100 sport/Daytona
Motoguzzi V11 (early version)
Along with my BMW R65 Cafe Racer and R100.
I prefer my BMW's from the early 80's with Brembo's etc. But I do like spoked wheels. Although I am rather partial to R75/5 as well with drum brakes. /6's and /7's are not my favourites - compromised by ATE swinging calipers - which I hate the look of irrespective on whether you can get them to work or not.
The Italian bikes would mostly be to look at and the German ones to ride in the real world.
R100 - Orange with Black wheels
R65 - Cafe Racer.
The R65 is still my favourite as every time I ride it reminds me of its better chassis than that of the R100. It puts a smile on my face.
Steve H
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OK - so how did I end up with 4 Beemers?
Had the R60/2 with sidecar since 1969 - about 4 years ago I decided I wanted electric start and a disk brake on a solo machine. Thus the R75/6. My fiance told me "you yave two bikes when do I learn to ride". That brought the R65 into the stable (She did try a Honda 750 Shadow because it was available - too topheavy!) While looking for a R100GS I found a great buy on the R1100R - ABS brakes, heated grips, so that joined the fleet.
My fiance saw the MotoGuzzi Nevada and fell in love with it - until we parked her R65 next to it and saw how small it was!
I test rode a Guzzi Jackel thinking that it would be a good match with the 1100 for touring - but she found the clutch was too hard to pull.
We still have space in the garage for one more bike - Guzzi would be nice but we may check out the smaller Triumphs come spring.
In the meantime she LOVES the R65 - fit and power are great and lightening the clutch pull and adding the second front disk has made it her special bike.
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I rode a KTM Adventer once. Nice bike. I only got up to 4th gear, and don't know why it has two more. That was about 80 or so, and the owner who was following me on my R65 was rapidly getting smaller in the mirrors. It's bigger than I like, but I do wish I had something that would be better for the gravel logging roads up where I live. I really liked the F650GS I rode a while back but I stayed on pavement.
I want a modern sport bike, too, a Daytona 675. But the dang things get worse gas mileage than my car! About 35 is what I read when I looked it up. I've never ridden one.
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Looked over some Multistradas today. Hmmm, those seats are so wide Two of me could sit side by side on there :-? The panniers, as on most recent bikes, stick out way too far for worry free traffic jam filtering.
I didn't get aroung to test riding. But felt a Ducati Monster may be more my thing. With a few mods.
A couple of dozen frozen motorcyclists had been gathered at the dealers, taking hot drinks and trying to warm themselves up. One guy had actually bought a new Ducati. I, despite having travelled 120 miles to get there, doubtless twice the distance any of those guys had done, was perfectly warm and comfortable having cruised down at a very respectable speed behind an RS fairing. So I came home thinking the BM is still fantastic 8-)
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And there larst, is the moral of the story - why tamper with perfection? ;)
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I'm kind of embarrassed to admit how many bikes we have. Started out on a pair of Honda Rebels, then Pete got a Triumph Bonne America and I got a Honda Shadow Aero.
Next came the Guzzi's. Cali EV, 750 Breva, Nevada.
Then the R45 and the C. Then Pete decided a baby Ninja would be a cheap, fun bike to have. Nevada got damaged when Pete hit a coyote one dark, overcast night. Guzzi dealer in Seattle made him an offer he couldn't refuse on a new Nevada, so now there's two. Harley mechanic had to trim the herd and so the R80 joined the group. Really like the 650GS's and heard that the last shipment was on its way here, so we picked up a pair. Last Valentines Day, he surprised me with a little Honda CRF230L, (and a new CZ 550 varmit gun). And most recently, a friend of ours decided he is no longer able to ride on two wheels, and he's had his R100 since it was new. And he needed the $$, so we bought it and his other bike, a 1998 Guzzi V11 EV. Didn't really need the EV, but now I have one of my own, to go with the Cali EV that Pete rides.
I know that if one of us wasn't interested in riding, there would only be one bike in the garage.
For some reason, we just can't seem to part with any of them. The Aero hardly ever gets ridden, even though it is the most comfy long distance bike we own. But its worth more to me sitting in the garage than what I might get for it, if I decide to sell it.
I like all the bikes, each of them has a purpose (well, MOST of them have a purpose, a couple were just...because....)
If it came down to being able to own only ONE bike each, it'll be a choice between the pair of GS's or the pair of Rebels. GS's can do more and have more power, but the Rebels get 85+ mpg when commuting and they are almost maintenance free. And I took my Rebel from WA to MN and back this summer. 5,000 miles and she rode like a dream.
I'm really looking forward to getting my 3 wheel endorsement, and I'd like to remove the useless(to me) fiberglass sidecar and replace it with a custom built 'crate'. So I can haul stuff. I'm already thinking about a refurbishment of the bike, it was an almost daily commute rig for its previous owner and is looking tired.
If I have the weekend off, the R45 will be heading to the Vintage Motorcycle Assoc yearly gathering at Vashon Island. Its going to get ridden a lot more, instead of being the garage queen she is now. :)
So many bikes out there, I'd REALLY like to have one of the new Guzzi V7 classics. purdy.......
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Wow !!
:o
I am in awe ! You both have definitely met the perfect mate to have such a garage !
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For the sake of your sanity, I would avoid Nortons like the....
Ouch!!
Been riding Nortons for 36 years. Something visceral about them.
Current stable:
1981 R65 with Velorex 562
1999 R1100RS
1996 Ducati 900SS SP
1981 Ducati 900SS (bevelhead)
1975 Norton 850 Commando Production Racer Replica/cafe racer
1973 Norton 850 Commando Interstate
1973 Norton 750 MkV Roadster (2)
1969 Norton Ranger 750 (P11)
1967 Norton P11
1968 Norton 750 Commando Fastback
1959 Triumph T120 Bonneville
I guess that makes me one sick puppy.
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I have the same sickness, not NEAR as bad as you. Nice collection you have. All I have left are some parts and memories. And the limp. I had a 72 (?) combat commando and still think it was the best looking and sounding machine ever built. I never understood the hardly ableson thing back then, Nortons looked ( and still do ) better than anything hardly will ever produce. No contest on the road. I use my bike as everyday transportation and just got tired of working on the thing. I replaced it with a Z-1 and went on from there. Had a few more over the years, the best being a early 73 I picked up with 1300 miles on it. I traded my spare, a KZ750 for it. The stunning red one. Had it for 7 years of sunday morning rides. It was sold with 14,800 miles up. Miss it, but, if I could talk Her Indoors into it, my next "spare" will be a R100.
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The most perfect motorbike made fo all uses exept racing is the R1150Gs adventure ,sit the whole day on it and cruise over bad roads.drainage ditches sand rocks and then the next day ride coast to coast!!
hey fastcataz i am also a Volvo man Own a 2002 V70 R (4wd) which i am adicted to it has 200000+ miles on and can still do 0-60mph under 6 sec after a new turbo and CV,joints and heat exchanger and canm seals
Brendan
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Currently:
MV Agusta Tamburini ..good for 2 hours or 120 miles in the saddle given the arthritic disease in my neck and low back.
The R65LS pairs with the Tamburini like Danny DeVito to Arnold in the movie Twins.
I love how the two compliment my riding pleasures.
Peter
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a suzuki dr200 for toodling about. makes a nice minimal touring machine.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsixfifty.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2F282169416_jmAxg-M.jpg&hash=4a635bd2415253e072efda7cf15a1f7fcfd133ea)
and dropping.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsixfifty.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2F250465234_86LX6-M.jpg&hash=d8435f51794ae296ba87cfee5c491cd63a9c94b4)
an f650cs for commuting and touring and screwing around.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsixfifty.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2F181088384_f6AUR-M.jpg&hash=deb787b91f69ae54f819a44205dc197cf13f07c2)
the necessary non-running project bike, a 1970 yamaha cs3.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsixfifty.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2F59231360_zYw9y-M.jpg&hash=b279fa6586780adffacf2e06aa0c872f2a1bb28b)
not quite mine, but soon, very soon.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsixfifty.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2F537661299_fjuku-M.jpg&hash=5d2cd8ff6fd38b78cea90c10b1171ee2129f8f36)
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I only have the one BMW but I wish I still had some of the 70’s bikes I once owned.
An Italian bevel drive single with an engine to die for but the electrics and paintwork were poor.
A big British twin built from quality materials but aspects of engine design and reliability let it down.
A very big Japanese four with a brilliant unburstable engine but material quality and finish were ordinary.
A German BMW of very modest performance, well designed and built from high quality materials was vastly more expensive than any of these but after 30 years the quality has stood the test of time.
Why is it then that a Ducati single, a Triumph Bonneville, or a Kawasaki Z900 in top class condition would all now cost me up to 5 times the value of my BMW.
Life is so fickle sometimes.
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Barry,
You are thinking like a rider - think about motorcycle collecting for a moment - the rarer the bike the more is is worth to a collector. Most of your old Ducs, bonnies, and Kawas are long gone to scrap while the Beemers are still running. Finding a BMW in good condition is so much easier. Sooo - you ae going to spend a lot more for the rare bike that did survive.
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an old Honda XR200 derivative called a CTX 200 Bushlander
But I've been riding a Hyosung GT250 this week and next week I get a Triumph Bonnie. Oh, but I have to write about those ones and that means riding them in all types of conditions ... like this weeks freezing rain.
Unfortunately I've got one of those real crappy jobs that someone just has to do.
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At last, I made my choice.
Well actually I made my choice of stablemate for the R65 months ago. I just couldn't remember the last time I saw an original and decent R80G/S on the market. When the chance for this one came up I was quick off the mark and took a bit of a chance with it's limited recorded history, which shows 61k miles.
The rascal has just arrived. Engine seems to be quite good, cycle parts fair condition, excepting rear wheel bearings and front wheel rim, not cheap to fix but no biggie really.
I have some plans to convert into the Paris Dakar style if I can find that Holy Grail for G/S owners, a spare PD tank. But that may be a long time coming. I already have a few ideas for the fairing and improved lighting. But I'll be riding it before doing any conversion and depending on how much I enjoy it, maybe I'll just leave it original. Nice touches on the machine already are the full stainless exhaust system and floating front disc.(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc60%2Flarstorders%2F80gs2.jpg&hash=3759f2046aafb7531607a4f56187cbcf0610beba)
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Great find Lars!
It appears used but pretty well cared for - I am sure that you will be very happy with it on some of the non-paved roads out your way.
I'd had a yen for one like it, or the more street-oriented model that we had over here for a short while, the R80ST - extremely similar save for paint, mostly.
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Here's a pic taken in February of this year, the day after Valentine's Day when I brought my 1999 R1200C Classic home to meet Britta. I wasn't sure just how Britta would react to having another bike in the driveway with her, but she has adjusted to the new company quite well! ;)
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I already have a few ideas for the fairing and improved lighting.
If you're going to add additional lighting consider upgrading the alternator to the Omega. If memory serves we only have about 200 watts on the R80 / R100 GS machines.
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< snip >It's [KTM] bigger than I like, but I do wish I had something that would be better for the gravel logging roads up where I live. I really liked the F650GS I rode a while back but I stayed on pavement. < snip >
I believe the Bridgestone TW-302 fit on the front and rear of the R65. Then you can do all the gravel roads you want. Just make sure you have lots of fender clearence!!!!!!
The 4.60-18 on the rear and the 4.10-18 on the front -- I should know some time this winter for sure.
http://www.motorcycle-karttires.com/glamourindex.aspx?productID=80&LookupID=19
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I have the '79 R65 and an '06 Goldwing....Totally different bikes. I bought the R65 for local riding and short (250 km) trips.
I don't think you can beat the Goldwing for it's touring capabilities and comfort. I have made 2 cross Canada trips on the Wing as well as about 4 trips to Ontario from BC on this and a prior Wing. I've also done some long distance rides from California to Texas and return.
The only problems I've had with the Wing on a trip is that I wore out a set of tires on the way home from Newfoundland two years ago and I burned out a tail light bulb on a trip to Ontario this summer. Of course I'm anal when it comes to maintenance.
The only problem with the Wing is it's weight. It's not a problem when you are on the move but if you drop that sucker you really have to know the right technique to pick it up. I'm getting too old to do this by myself these days and the arthritis doesn't help so I'm thinking that the next tourer might be something lighter like the R1200RT (If I can talk the wife into it).
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We had an open day a couple of weeks ago with our Motor Vehicle Enthusiasts Club of the NT.
I decided to put the sunbeam S7 Deluxe on show, but had to quickly arrange the parts so it at least looked like a motorbike, and then put a sign in front saying project under construction.
It also was my way of making sure I got back to working on it, today i went in and painted one wheel (front and rear are interchangeable) with POR-15 paint. small steps, but steps nonetheless. :) Next I'll put spokes in the wheel and even a tyre on the outside of it.
The S7 doesn't use anywhere near as much fuel as the R65
John
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Is that engine a vertical twin, with the cylinders arranged in a fore and aft configuration, instead of the common side by side ?
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from the Sunbeam S7 wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunbeam_S7_and_S8
The Sunbeam S7 and S8 are British motorcycles designed by Erling Poppe based on the BMW R75 designs that were acquired by BSA (together with the full rights to the Sunbeam brand) at the end of World War II.
Erling Poppe’s design was originally based on a captured BMW R75 but Sunbeam did not want the S series to look too "German", so an in-line OHC, parallel twin was designed instead of a flat twin "across the frame".
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Interesting bike to say the least !!!
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Don Tanner led the OVM vintage ride out of Corvallis, OR last year on his Sunbeam. At first glance I thought it was a square 4, but yeah it's two cylinders fore and aft. His is in really nice shape.
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My '70 Bonneville:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.suraklyn.com%2Fr65_forum_gallery%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10039%2Fnormal_Triumph2009s.jpg&hash=8789d806f4295221fa314206834d7e4d6c43a704)
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Nice Bonnie Ed. Is it "Stock" or have you modded it?
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Oooooh...... Nice Bonnie, indeed, Ed!! :P
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Yes it is nice! Ever seen a Kawasaki W650? It's a clone of the Triumph made around '98-00 but very few were imported into the US. We saw bunches and bunches of really fine English iron this past weekend at the N. Texas Norton rallye. One fellow even had his Vincent Black Shadow, owned it for 51 years, and no one could keep up with him on the 24 mile Concours loop. He was drifting corners WOT, and that bike was immaculate. Photos to follow one of these days. Montmil may be able to download some pix.
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Nice Bonnie Ed. Is it "Stock" or have you modded it?
Stockish? The colors aren't stock but the pattern is. I added turn signals because I ride after dark. I installed the low home market bars so I wouldn't have to be a human parachute any more. The horn/turn signal/high beam switch is from some Japanese bike in a junkyard; you can't see it in the picture. Napoleon bar end mirrors so I could see past my shoulders. I like the look better too.
I have a much bigger gas tank that I need to work on, line, and paint; it has the parcel rack and will hold almost 5 gallons. I hope to get it on the bike for next summer.
I got it over 94,000 miles this summer. I'm hoping to get over 100,000 next year for it's 40th year.
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The Bonnie looks really nice, Ed, with its chrome heart shining in the sun.. I can't help but think of that Neil Young song when I see these Trumps. Long may you run!
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I know a lot of the words in that song and I can't figure out what it's about. I like it though. "But we missed that shift on the long decline..." Maybe I just think I know the words. I sing a lot of nonsense sometimes. Thanks for the kind words, all. I won't show you the other side....
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Maybe this will explain it Ed .
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2546
Here's the lyrics .
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/n/neil+young/long+may+you+run_20099063.html
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Yea, I had thought that he was writing the song about a car, but the "chrome heart" part didn't seem to make sense if it were an automobile. The side engine case on the Triumph does somewhat look heart shaped, and if it isn't chromed, it is at least nicely shiny, polished alloy - that's what triggers it for me, anyway..
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Ever seen a Kawasaki W650?It's a clone of the Triumph made around '98-00 but very few were imported into the US.
Bengt, I think you might have identified a mystery bike I saw Saturday, parked across the street from our daughter's apartment in Philly. It got my attention because from a distance, the tank and general configuration (side) looked (to my bad eyes) like a toaster-tank airhead. Another slight resemblance is that the crank bearing covers protrude more than usual for a vertical twin, and are the correct general shape and color, to trick a quick glance into the conclusion that it's a boxer (rather than a transverse-crank parallel). The only identifier I could find on the bike was "W650" (on the side covers, I think, but I can't recall for sure).
It's a beauty! Chrome fenders, nice lines. When I got closer, I saw that the tank looks more like a Triumph with knee pads, rather than a toaster Beemer.
Next trip to Philly (probably this Saturday), I'll try to remember to take a digital camera & try to get a shot (if it's parked there again).
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W650's have quite a loyal following in the UK. I could easily be tempted.
(http://)
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My no. 2 is a 1968 BSA B44 - 440cc unit single. It was originally exported new to the US, somebody brought it back home and rebuilt it some years ago. It had been crashed and evidently left in storage for a very long time, though the crash damage was not serious the rebuilder sadly was not a very good mechanic! So it's pretty clattery-rattly, but great fun to ride just the same. When I get rich I'll have it rebuilt again by someone competent.....
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I remember reading a road test on the B44 when they were new and seeing them in the showroom. I also seem to remember it was it called the BSA Victor.
Nice bike
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Well now Ed Miller...I think it just might be really nice if you rode that beautiful Triumph on its anniversary year to Redmond and the BMW National Rally! I remember you asked us which bike to ride! :-/
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Unless it's just been sold there is a '99 Kaw W650 on the BMW MOA flea market for around $3400. Complete with hard cases too.