The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => Discussion about "Lesser" makes, er, Non-BMW ;-) => Topic started by: weasel01 on August 16, 2009, 04:44:24 PM
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I'm going to buy a "car" in the next couple months.
I already have a trusty ole' pickup truck and I already have a super cool R65 motorcycle.
I'm looking for another mode of transportation that is a fun to drive kinda thing.
I'm not a speed freak but I do enjoy well built things of interest.
Before the pickup I had a relatively new BMW 3 series and really really loved it.
I really wanted to keep it forever but I started my business and needed a quality cabinet saw and a pickup truck so I sold it to stay away from unnecessary debt...
It's been several years now and I'm feeling the itch for a cool car again.
I've always loved Porsche and even lived a couple miles from Zuffenhausen for a few years.
I'm looking for something 15k or less and would really like a cabriolet of some sort.
My first car was a Triumph Spitfire and loved the sports car vibe but being British it was truly more hassle than it was worth.
The 2 cars that I have narrowed it down to are the BMW Z3 or the Porsche Boxster.
This will not be a daily driver but would like to use it pretty often maybe 5000 to 8500 miles per year or so.
Any experience with these machines?
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Many automotive journalists refer to the Mazda MX-5 Miata as the spirit of British sports cars reincarnated. No Lucas nor leaks... spirited performance. My old MGA was a toad.
Personally, I'd spring for the Z3. My brother and I shared a Porsche coupe during high school days and I still have pleasant memories of that marvelous automobile... and the young ladies it attracted. I really can't fault the Boxster from an engineering standpoint but the styling... [smiley=thumbdown.gif]
Monte
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I've had an '01 Z-3 3.0i, for a little over 8.5 years, if you need to carry anything other than 5 bags of groceries, you're out of luck .
I've only got 7600 miles on it, so I can't tell you about any problems that may arise in a higher mileage vehicle, the independent BMW shop that I take it to, when it does need attention, the owner says that there aren't a lot of problems until you get around 100,000 miles .
Consumer Reports long term view of the vehicle, puts it at the top of the list for value, and reliability .
There seems to be a bit of problems with the interior, but I can't remember specifics right now .
Stay away from the 1.9 liter 4 cylinder vehicles, as they have a hard time getting out of their own way .
If you live in an area where salt is put on the roads during the winter, I would have a shop that is knowledgeable about the car, and do a good inspection on it, as there were problems with body integrity due to rusting, in the rear shock, rear axle area, didn't get real concerned about that, due to living in a desert, and the car has never been in rain, let alone snow .
The car is a blast to drive, and in wet conditions, I think you may get into trouble with too much throttle, even with the Dynamic Stability Control on, at least with the 3 liter engine .
I have the 5 speed manual, so I can't comment on the Tiptronic, or Steptronic automatic transmissions .
I don't know what years, or engines this was applicable to, but on the 3 liter car, the front and rear tires are different sizes, so you can't rotate the tires .
The throttle is a 'fly by wire' type, the gas pedal is connected to an electronic transducer, and that feeds an electronic signal to the engine management computer, so a 'lazy' throttle can be noticed when you first start driving it, but you seem not to notice it after a while .
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Thanks guys, the more research I do the more evident the Z3 is by far the better choice.
The Porsche seems to be riddled with expensive problems where as the Z3 seems to have a pretty clean record except the larger engine models appearently have an issue with the rear ends breakuing loose as well as several weld spots around the trunk area if you really abuse it.
Abuse is not my style.
I'm not really considering the 1.9l as I've had too many under powered cars.
The 3.0 is still a little out of my comfort zone price wise but the smaller 6's look right in every way.
Does the ride beat you up or is it a decent balance between performane and comfort.?
The throttle by wire wierds me out a little ....any issues there?
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Well, the only other 4 wheeler that I can compare it to, is my CRX, and the Z-3 feels like a world away from it, so I would have to say it's a good ride feel .
If it is an option available to you, with you having to drive in winter conditions, I would consider a car that has the optional fiberglass hard top, to help save the fabric top .
There is no rear window defroster/defogger, it's just a piece of clear plastic, again, living in a desert, it's not something I'm familiar with, as far as vision to the rear, in winter conditions .
Here's a website, that I have gotten a few aftermarket accessories from : http://www.z3solutions.com/ .
No issues with the throttle, but when you first start driving it, it's a bit unusual, there is a slight lag on throttle input, and engine response, maybe in stop and go traffic, it may be annoying .
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Many of the newest techno Sport Bike hotrods are fly by wire with variable length velocity stacks. Yuck. That's just another reason to love the simplicity of an Airhead. Monte
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The oil quantity on the 3 liter engine is 8 quarts, that kind of surprised me, coming from a 1.6 liter CRX, Mobil 1 is the recommended oil, and that is about $45 for oil, and $15 for a filter, so an oil change can get a bit pricey, even doing it yourself .
But the filter is located at the front of the engine on top, it takes about 2 minutes to replace it, its a similar filter as our R65's take, just remove the filter bowl, and remove the filter .
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+1 again for the BMW roadster over the Porsche - unless you have a trust fund or a best buddy who is a Porsche-mechanic, your ability to self-repair very much on the Porsche is going to be very low compared to the BMW. Now, the Porsche is definitely much more unique and has more curbside appeal, but if you are planning to get regular use out of it and want year-round reliability without investing over a grand on maintenance ever year or so, get the BMW.
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What is the level of self wrench-ability on a Z3?
Armed with the experienced I've gained in the last 85 days (how long I've owned my R65 and also how long I've been a member here)
I wondered how deep the average owner could go on a car like that.
I should say I've had a lifetime of mechanical experience but mostly machine oriented devices (robotics etc...)
my R65 is the most I've wrenched on a factory vehicle of any type....I dont want to sound too naive.
I mean if you have common tools could you replace the clutch or is that nuts?
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Work of that type is pretty straight forward, as long as electronics aren't involved, I wouldn't get too scared about performing work on it like that .
But I would like a BMW factory manual for the car, but unless you have insider access to BMW's manuals, it's almost impossible to get a copy of one .
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I've seen some manuals on line that are down loadable?
They look like my Clymer I have for my R65.
Are you referring to something different?
Also found a fault code reader for $149.00...that seemed encouraging.
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I was referring to BMW factory manuals, they have more information than the readily available aftermarket manuals .
RealOEM.com parts website is also a good source of parts info for BMW's cars as well, just need the last 7 charatcers of the vehicle serial number .
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Having owned both a BMW (318ti) and Porsche (924S), I would favor the BMW.
First, parts and maintenance on the Porsche are very high. How high? Back in the late 1980s, an oil filter cost around $30 US and was only available through the dealer. There were no aftermarket sources for parts for the car. Back then, every service was easily over $500. And then there were the belt changes -- timing belt and balancer belt -- big bucks. Also, twice the master cylinder for the clutch went on that car (try $1,500 at an aftermaket mechanic, over $2,000 at a dealer). The Porsche was a great handling car on the smooth dry pavement, but became treacherous on rough pavement (if it got light on its suspension in a curve it would side-slip) or on slippery paverment (no warning before it lost traction and would spin out - did several 360 spins without any warning on light snow). Performance wise, it was hard to beat for the price.
The BMW has been a solid car. Maintenance and service, while a little steep at a dealer, is still better priced than the Porsche. Plus, there are enough BMWs around that many local mechanics are able to do most servicing and repair, and are much cheaper than dealers. I had some initial quality issues, but all were taken care of in the first year and it has held up well. Clutch is also long lasting -- over 120,000 miles and still no sign of problem. Parts (mechanical and body) are also more readily available, and more reasonably priced. Although not as sporty as the Z3, the 318ti is a very good handling car, pretty close to the Porsche.
Just my two cents on the question.
k_enn
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I also had a 318ti (used) and before that I had a brand new
Volkswagon Jetta Glx with the VR6.
Thought the VW was an incredable car, till I got the little Bmw....
I would never think of another water cooled volkswagon after having the Bmw.
It really ran circles around the VW in EVERY way.
The VW was slow for a 6 cylinder and handled like shit next to the BMW.
They (318ti) really didnt get the love some other models got (sorta like the R65) but it was one fine automobile in my opinion.
I never had a moments trouble out of it except an exhaust sensor but that was an expected easily rectified issue.
It felt great, handled great, better acceleration than the VR6 and all with excellent mpg's.
It had an excellent stereo and also had a unique look... standard bmw models are a dime a dozen around here.
The value on them plummeted for a while but it looks like they are on the upswing now.
I've completely lost interest in the Boxter after talking to some people that have owned them and you guys and also random internet research.
Looks like a fools game to me.
The Z3 on the other hand ...I'm hard pressed to find any hate for it whatsoever except for limited cargo but that is not the point with a car like that plus I have my trust F-150.
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I also had a 318ti (used)
<snip>
The value on them plummeted for a while but it looks like they are on the upswing now.
<snip>
I still have the 318ti. Mechanics, and BMW dealers, keep asking me if I will sell it to them. No way.
Value wise, they are still a little low. Had some recent body damage and the insurance company called total value at about $2,700. (I was able to get a new door, and have all the work done for less). I think the value will be rising on them soon -- they were made a good while ago, and production was very short (2 years).
I think that next to the 318ti, the Z3 may be the best handling car
BMW made.
k_enn
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From what I have heard from people that have driven the Roadster, and the Coupe versions of the Z-3, the Coupe was better handling than the Roadster, due to body flex of a convertible .
But the coupe does have an unusual look to it, kinda like an MGB-GT .
You like it, or you hate it .
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From what I have heard from people that have driven the Roadster, and the Coupe versions of the Z-3, the Coupe was better handling than the Roadster, due to body flex of a convertible .
But the coupe does have an unusual look to it, kinda like an MGB-GT .
You like it, or you hate it .
You could place me firmly in the LOVE it catagory.
It reminds me of the Jag-Hearse from the movie "Harold and Maude"
But much cooler of course.
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I'm reading about nakasil engine failures on some 90's model BMW cars?
I thought that was a good thing on the motorcycles?
Wonder whats up wih the cars?
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I just ordred a maintenance manual specifically for the entire Z-3 series of vehicles .
It's by Bentley publishers, it was highly recommended by the independent BMW shop that I use for those jobs that I shouldn't get involved with yet, like flushing the brake system .
Got it at Amazom.com, for $75US .
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Ampy, The F-150 is a sports car with a BIG trunk. The Bimmer has a tiny trunk. The Beemer has no trunk. Drive or ride whatever suits that day's needs. Don't worry, Be happy... B-double E-double R-UN
Monte
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I had a Porsche 924 and currently own a '71 2.2 litre 911T.
924 was great everyday car, but a bit bland. 911 is old, has diabolical handling due to worn susp rubbers, but is a nice fun car.
I went from Johannesburg to Lake Kariba in the 924, but wouldn't do that in the 911.