The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => Discussion about "Lesser" makes, er, Non-BMW ;-) => Topic started by: bjamesw on August 07, 2009, 09:41:46 AM
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There's currently a fellow riding from Sydney to London on the Honda to the right. Here's his tale...
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460631
I LOVE IT!
I always wanted a BWM. When I found mine at a nice price in excellent condition I almost walked away because it was such a "small" R65. I had previously owned a monster Suzuki Katana.
Cursing the guy for originally taking this little thing off of the showroom new, I went ahead and bought it and have been smiling ever since. Being just a wee bit more suitable for secondary highways than major expressways, I found myself gravitating to a milder, more scenic, more memorable, less nervewracking, mode of getting to point 'B' and have to credit the R65 with introducing me to that.
Then I inherited a 1981 50cc Puch moped from a family member. It sat in the garage for two summers because I was too damn cool to be seen on it. I wondered what the hell the guy was thinking buying this, but maybe it would come in handy in a pinch some day. Once I started riding it though, same story... I've been smiling ever since. Some weeks go by that I spend more time on it than the R65.
If the R65 was my re'intro' to the fundamentals of adventure on the roads away from the superhighways, the moped was similarly my intro into adventuring into nooks and crannies anywhere within 40 miles of my front door. Paths, sidewalks, shortcuts, vacant lots, short trails, abandoned sites, in between buildings, in and out of gaps in fences. Park and lock whereever the hell I choose. A whole undiscovered world right there between a bicycle and a motorcycle.
So when I came across this thread by Nathan on his 110cc Honda "Postie" bike, I was immediately taken. It is brilliant on so many levels. The "Postie" bike gets its affectionate nick from it's universal service to the Australian Postal delivery.
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They've been using them for decades down there to get the mail, well, everywhere. They have been modified and improved to fit the needs of the postal service for so long now that they are almost literally 'bulletproofed", The Australian version is a four speed, and the New Zealand version has a dual range lever on the gearbox (like the ones we once imported here in the U.S.). Nathan's on the four speed.
Fantastic gas mileage. Better access to traffic, tight spaces, narrow gaps, alleyways, and parking spots. Far less attractive to thieves and ne'er-do-wells along the way. Far better at blending in with whatever crowd you happen to want to be a tourist among. Far, far easier to service and repair along the way. Just what is not to love?
My pick for this type of adventure touring would have to be something like this....
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorsports-network.com%2FHONDA%2Fmodels%2Fvtr2502.jpg&hash=1ed25e54ebffdec9fdec7c6bfce2a3db59fe48f9)
A VTR250. Same basic Honda 250 v-twin powerplant has been around and bulletproofed for almost 30 years now. Lightweight and relatively small. Naked enough to worry less about damage. I"d rattlecan paint it with some dull camo shades to make it less attractive to thieves. Decent ground clearance (bolt on a bash plate) and nice adjustable rear travel for dual use with adv touring tires. Comfy seat. Big tank. It's a Honda (nuf said). My dream adventure tourer.
110cc is still just a tad small for any real comfort between cities whereever you go. 250 would be ideal in these hinterlands. Unfortunately, this particular 250 is only available at the moment in Australia. There is nothing quite like it here in the U.S. unless you want to take a chance on a Hyosung near-clone. Hmm, my brother lives in Melbourne. Should I go get one and bring it back to Michigan via Adventurestan?
What bike would you choose?
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Definitely add the bash plate but change out the wheels to spoked. Those cast wheels wouldn't make all the way around I suspect. Spokes are so much more forgiving over rough and potted roads.
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Spokes. Good idea.
On that, I was so smitten by this photo in Rob Valdez' thread...
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F71719321.jpg&hash=841f0344b0f1b7fce016db47bdfe863574387f1e)
That I shared it on another board, advrider.com, in a thread called "best looking road bikes....."
The mods he did to that bike show a real eye for balance and beauty.
I've already done a remarkably similar taillight/fender treatment on my R65. I can't help wondering now how my BMW would look with spoked wheels. I didn't see any spoked wheel r65s in a google image search. Anyone here have photos of one? The snowflake wheel is, fortunately, not really very far removed visually from spokes so it might not be that great a difference.
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We (have) had a member here, 'Mick' MacMillan, that rode his '81 R65 around the world, his R65 had spoked rims I believe, and he had very few tire/rim related issues .
http://mickrtw.blogspot.com/
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The Australian version is a four speed, and the New Zealand version has a dual range lever on the gearbox (like the ones we once imported here in the U.S.).
I was working in a rural Honda shop a couple of years ago - we sold the CT110 as a farm bike,they are pretty tough.They were the hardest bike of all to assemble,they were dismantled more than anything else.We all hated to put them together,and there had to be nothing else to do before one was attempted.
All our quads and the CT110 came from South Carolina,the MX bikes from Japan,and everything else from Brazil.
I'd take an airhead mono around the world - basic and simple,and parts available anywhere.
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I have all the confidence in my '84 R65 making a world circuit. It just wouldn't be my first choice for a few reasons. It's much too valuable to me to challenge such elements with. Why trash such a beauty in the rutted monsoon riven backroads of the Indian subcontinent? It's frankly still too large a bike to meet most of the criteria I mentioned above. The gas mileage is not much to crow about when dependable fillups are, as much as I hate cliches, few and far between. And as much as I adore it, it is frankly higher maintenance than anything I'd trust my life to in the way, way, out of doors.
None of us should be ashamed to admdit that these are somewhat finickey mates when it comes to tuning and tinkering. Between a bad diode board, most of my transmission oil leaking out of the shift seal one day far from home, stripped splines on the output shaft to the clutch, chronic recharging anemia that has forced many push starts, replaced batteries, and finally an onboard tender that I plug in at night, a cracked coil, a MADDENING tendancy to just not start no matter how much cranking about once a year out of the blue for no discernable reason, etc, I've been left on the roadside almost a dozen times in the last 30K miles. Par for the course? Ask a Honda rider.
Takes nothing away from the love of my BMW. It's just not my first choice for adventuring far from home. Sure a new BMW adventure bike would be more dependable. I can't afford one. I certainly cant afford to die travelling alone on one because some nut wants it so much more than I do that he'll kill me for it. Like I said, I would never really be able to relax.
Now if BMW came out with a nice little 250 twin, things might be more interesting. One of the things I find lacking in most if not all of the single cylinder "dual sport" bikes out there is the geometry, setup, and seating designed for 80 percent off road and 20 percent road. Ideally for me I'd have it the other way around.
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Forgot to mention the broken valve spring above. Ought to make my strandings just about an even dozen.
But again. Anybody got other ideas for this style of travel in foreign places?
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Well, my experience with my '81 R65, which I took delivery of in January, '81, and 82,000 miles later, it has only let me down twice, the original OEM coil died 2 blocks from home, the ignition switch failed one block from the local BMW dealer .
But look at it this way, how much trouble would you be having with a 1984 model year 4 wheeler driven in the upper midwest for the last 25 years ?
Most 'sane' people don't operate a 25 year old vehicle anymore !!!!!!!
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Most 'sane' people don't operate a 25 year old vehicle anymore !!!!!!!
...now that was just mean. ;)
'58 Chevy Apache 1/2 ton pickup
'70 Triumph Bonneville
'81 R65
'89 Honda CRX
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Well Ed, the average age of my vehicles, puts me at 24.6 years .
I drive the oldest vehicles in the sub-division, the only other residents that have equivalent aged vehicles, is the neighbor that has the silver LS, he also has a '71 Triumph Bonneville, and another that has a '72 Lincoln Mercury de Tomaso Pantera .
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I forgot, in fact, to mention the shift rod. Hidden inside the rubber boot between the foot lever and the transmission shift arm was a flimsy little rod with bent ends. It was OEM. It had the appropriate snap rings and stops in place, the geometry and dimensions were correct, but it just snapped at the bend. I was flabbergasted. Flimsy. WTF BMW?
Bob I'd say you were astonishingly fortunate through the miles. As far as others are concerned, am I the only member here honest enough to admit that the 'bulletproof' BMW is a bit of a myth? The engine itself? A wonder of functional, dependable, simplicity. But the incidentals! The back up musicians. Sometimes just ragtag and really unforgiveable. That's probably the single biggest difference I've noticed with the Japanese approach. My BMW, both of my seventies and eighties era Volkswagon Golfs, my high school Opel Manta, and two Puch mopeds. Compared to my three Civics, two Yamaha dirt bikes, one Suzuki road bike, a Honda 175 enduro, and a slew of other Honda products, there is easily recognizable attention paid to engineering out failure. Wire reinforcements, correct fastener gauges, better insulation at wear points, bushings/ball-bearings instead of simple metal pins, extra stress reinforcement where cables and wires enter housings, an eye for how damn difficult it's going to be for the next guy to access repairs, etc, etc.
Trust me. I really do love my R65. It's a certain type of relationship though. It's like the girl I met in college from Istanbul who spoke a kind of tricky version of English. Both parents college professors. Way too pretty. Natural sense of style. Trouble just waiting to happen in a dozen different ways (and it all did). But ahhh just look at her. Still heartsick. But still wouldn't trade that time for a dozen 'easier' loves.
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You haven't mentioned the history of the bike, are you the original owner ?
A few of the failures that you mentioned, like the transmission input shaft splines stripping out, was due to a lack of lubricant, a well known requirement on BMW motorcycles .
Your hard starting problem, does the engine sound like it is weakly firing, or do you get the smell of raw fuel out of the exhaust ?
A good look at the electrical connections for security, and condition (corrosion, clean ground connections), may well solve the starting issue, and the charging issue as well .
If the splines on the input shaft stripped, there was a good possibility that the effort to shift gears due to the rusty splines on the shaft and clutch may have contributed to the early demise of the shift linkage .
These bikes were not built to the current, put fuel in it, and change the oil sometime in the future, they need to be maintained, not intensive mind you, but some routine work is required, or problems will occur .
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How about the Suzuki Vstrom 650. I happen to have one so my opinion doesn't count. Its too big for loose dirt though but fine on gravel or packed dirt (well used) roads. Lots of ground clearance, great gas mileage when driven prudently which is hard to do because its fast. Many off road accessories available.
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I've read a fair number of books and articles on "adventure" travel and have concluded that given enough time, opportunity, good luck, and MONEY, any bike will get you around the world. A really fun read is "Lois On The Loose" by an English girl who quit her day job, flew her little Yamaha 200cc to Anchorage, Alaska and rode the Pan American to Tierra Del Fuego.
No doubt there are a lot of folks out there with more travel experience than I have, but for my part I hate border crossings. Maybe I just have a face that looks like some bad guy but I'm always getting pulled out of line for inspection. Most of us have enough mechanical skill to keep a bike together but it's the documentation that will get you every time. That's my TCW. ;)
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What wi global warmin and all that ill be able to get the ferry to france head north turn left at the pole and down to Texas soon but the 65 will be my first choice anyway a honda if its 4 wheels.
Lou
opps is Texas in the third world? i think yorkshire must be no one speaks English here anymore
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It's not in the 'third' world, but it is a 'different' country, even the Texas tourism bureau thinks so, because that's their logo, 'It's like a whole another country' .
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It's not in the 'third' world, but it is a 'different' country, even the Texas tourism bureau thinks so, because that's their logo, 'Texas, it's a whole different country' .
We have a phone in program radio 5 live(BBC) discussing the recent elections in Afghanistan a caller remarked that they would always be suspect in an "occupied country" noting the American twang(accent) of the caller, the presenter asked how he new this to be the case as he was an American..........he replied I'm not an American I'm a Texan and the state of Texas has been occupied since the end of the civil war.
The radio presenter was lost for words ......priceless bit of radio from the BBC
Lou
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I know the feeling, as Arizona has been called 'Occupied Mexico', for as long as I've been here, (16 years) .
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..........he replied I'm not an American I'm a Texan and the state of Texas has been occupied since the end of the civil war.
Well, for most of us that live here, the War of Northern Agression has been over for the better part of a century. However, it is true that if you were to ask most Americans in another country where they were from they would reply "from the USA". On the other hand if you ask a Texan in another country where he is from he will invariably reply, "I'm from Texas". Don't ask me why, but it just is "a whole 'nuther country".
And contrary to what the so-called main stream media may have reported, Texans do not want to secede from the Union. Upon entry into the Union in 1845 one of the stipulations was that Texas did reserve the right to separate into as many as five states if the citizens of the state voted to do so. Just another historical oddity.
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Does that mean you could print your own money.??
You could have a r65 on the back of a dollar bill and a chicken on the front.
Lou
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I know the feeling, as Arizona has been called 'Occupied Mexico', for as long as I've been here, (16 years) .
I would think it would be called Occupied Navajoland. Or what ever they call their place. Actually they still have most of their land, don't they?
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UK police bikes were fitted with spoked wheels, they were an option. Its just that at that time cast wheels wwere seen as the way forward.
My Cafe Racer has spoked wheels - from an R80 ST.
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I know the feeling, as Arizona has been called 'Occupied Mexico', for as long as I've been here, (16 years) .
When I lived in the "Land of Enchantment" next door to you, the local National Public Radio station (KRWG at New Mexico State University) ran a program produced by the New Mexico Tourist Bureau (I think) titled One Of Our 50 Is Missing, regarding the uninformed comments and official pronouncements that New Mexico citizens received during their travels elsewhere in the United States. Some of the most frequent ones were:
"I need to see your passport,"
'Are you enjoying your visit to the United States?" and
"I'm sorry, we do not accept foreign checks."
My former father-in-law, who lived in El Paso but worked in Las Cruces, New Mexico, was in Boston and needed to show an official document prepared in Las Cruces. The bank employee rejected the document because it was "foreign." Fortunately, there was a map of the United States on the wall behind the employee, because the employee refused to accept any other form of proof of nationality.
The American journalist H.L. Mencken's observation nearly 100 years ago is true: "No one ever went broke from underestimating the intelligence of the American people." :-[
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While alot can be said for extremely reliable design, if I were to go touring round the globe and through many 'third world' countries where spare parts and high tech mechanics may be in short supply, I'd go with a bike that was simple enough for me to maintain, and an airhead would rate fairly high on the list. Spoked wheels might get banged out of line in severe road conditions, but spokes can be bought and installed in many places - finding a new cast wheel to replace the one that is structurally cracked would be another matter entirely! I'd go with a spoked wheel bike, non fuel injected if I could help it because a computer malfunction could strand you right there with no hope. I'd consider a liquid cooled bike if I was planning alot of hot, high desert running or bogging slowly in deep mud. Unfortunately, bikes like the Triumph Tiger and BMW R1150/1200GS bikes have gotten way to big/heavy/complicated for this sort of thing, IMHO. How long could one push an R1200GS along a sandy road if the fuel injection system quit 12 miles from the nearest town?
The bare bike would have to be ~ 400 pounds, for my preference.
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i'd have something small, light and simple. something that ran on cheap gas, could be fixed at the side of the road with damn near the supplied tool kit.
my dr200, a super sherpa, honda 230.
it wouldn't be about going fast, it would be about just going, day after day.
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I say any BSA unit twin as they were made and sent all over the world. There should be spair parts laying about just about anywhere you go.
;)
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I'd have to go for the simplicity of a big single. Not sure it should be British though I've just been reading about an a guy riding an Ariel single through Africa and yes it was easy to repair but boy did it need repairs.
No a well designed more modern single probably off road based with magneto ignition drum brakes, washable filters (oil and air) and spoked wheels.
I had a Suzuki GN400 single which was far from perfect but the engine never missed a beat in the 14 years and it weighed only 327 lbs.
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I have a new friend who flies fixed wing, helicopter, scuba dives and tours in Mexico on the dirt and leaves here in February to do it!! He swears by an any year Kawasaki KLR 250 cc bike for being bulletproof and takes easily to McGyver fixes. On the Interstates through the States he finds it adequate too and for taking a minimal amount of gear aboard.
He's the type of guy that made his own computer diagnostic tool!!! Beyond me! :o
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KLR 250 cc is a Tried and true design..just get a bigger gastank. It would be my choice and I would have my friend set it up with me helping. If I wasn't sooo old!! That is the bike I would choose for a Labrador or Alaska/Yukon trip and South America/around the world. I could pick it up!! I may actually look at dirt and gravel roads as fun then?
Would anyone consider putting a sidecar rig on just so spills are not an issue? The rig could be designed specifically for gear.
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I was also rather fond of the Honda XL350/500 singles, and the Yamaha XT/SR500 from the 80's, but I'd definitely want better brakes than what they had. I suppose a modern KLR650 would get you liquid cooling for hot climates, the power to handle a sidecar with extra gas & parts, and the ability to handle highway speeds when the occasion arose without getting run over. The KLR250 would be a very good solo bike, but I don't know if I'd want to ride it on a 55 mph highway with a sidecar - the car would weigh as much as the bike - very unlikely to tip over but a passing truck would probably blow you off the road.