The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => Discussion about "Lesser" makes, er, Non-BMW ;-) => Topic started by: Semper Gumby on May 31, 2008, 07:57:43 AM
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I havn't had to work on the R65 much so much so here is a BSA update.
The Firebird got a new Tri-Spark electronic ignition from Austrailia this week. It features a programmed digital advance and a static timing light just like the Omega on my R65. What a difference it makes. I had to change out the 12 volt coils for 6 volt ones as it runs the 6 volt coils in series and fires both at the same time. But the bike now idles and jumps off the mark. Takes a quirky cool motorcycle and turns into a wonderful cool motorcycle. Instead of being sooty, the plugs are now running light grey just like they should be.
Today I'm replacing the Zener Diode and the Rectifier with a Tympanium Unit as the Zener has stopped working and system voltage after a while on the road runs up to 15 volts!
After the tympanium is installed it will almost be a modern motorcycle. ::)
Perhaps a LED taillight is next.
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A Tri Spark?! I am so jealous. Can you double check what you said about both firing at once, though, as the owner told me they are not a wasted spark system? Unless he figures wasted spark is good enough for BSAs.... (running, ducking, etc.!)
Here's the tail light; my Triumph has it already. I have turn signals too but I don't think he makes them any more.
http://www.bulbsthatlast4ever.com/
http://www.bulbsthatlast4ever.com/products/679-si.html
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Hi Ed,
Both the coils are in series with one wire from the ignition (Black and White). The other two wire go to the ignition circuit on the bike (Black and Yellow) and to ground on the case of the engine (red). So when the signal comes from the ignition, both coils fire. I verified this tonight when I did a compresson check (144 L 150 R). Both Champions were putting our strong blue parks.
It's a waisted spark system. But I really like it. I know the literature for their ignition for the triples is individual spark but this one is not.
Bulbs forever: I think that may be my next aquistion for this bike with some LED for the Instuments from Paul Geoff in England. He claims to have some supar brite led so you can actually see the instruments at night. Would be nice.
Bill
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Speaking of riding a BSA at night http://www.apple.com/trailers/magnolia/gonzo/trailer/
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Cool! I'm there! Is this already out? I can get Netflicks to send it if it is.
Staff? STAFF! STAAAAAFFFFFFF.......
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Should be out in July. The ride depicted is written at the end of the Hells Angels book. Have it mapped out in Google for my next CA trip. Been "down the long hill to Pacifica" but missed the golden Gate Park bit.
rich
quietly assembling a Britt Bike
http://www.pleasurebarons.com/hst_hells_angels.html
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Bill, why the Tri-Spark as opposed to Pazon, Boyer, or Sparx? Just curious.
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Ah! Well...
1) No remote box - all is located under the timing cover on the RH side of the motor = easy installation.
2) Advertised as "able to operate at voltages lower than that required by the "boyer" = keeps running at stop lights with weak British electrical system (half a phase Lucas) at its weakest.
3) Timing light (LED) on the unit for setting the static timing (just like my Omega on the R65). Gets timing close before putting the strobe on it to get the timing perfect.
4) I keep the stock appearence although I switch to 6 volt coils (in series). The wiring was simple with only one connector on the BSA's wiring loom changed.
5) Programmed advance curve supposed to prevent detonation with "idle Stabilization" = it's very stabile farting around town and I don't have to worry about keeping the rpms up at a red light.
6) They answered my e-mails in a timely manner (usually one day or less). There was one minor problem with the instructions which I e-mailed to them and they promised to make a change to a note to include the BSA A65. (the timing rotor moves CCW - Counter clockwise which makes a difference on the initial static timing setting).
Maybe I'm drinking koolaid but the bike is so much more drivable than it was that I'm looking for excuses to riding the Firebird.
On Tuesday this week I did 250 miles out to Aonia Motopark in 91 degree heat (did a vintage Observed trials course (Montessa 348 Cota) and some flat track riding (BSA Victor 441). The bike ran really well with no hiccups. On the way out at 60 mph I got 45mpg. On the way back I ran at 70-75 and I have yet to fill the tank. The bike pulled hard all the way to 7000 rpms.
I really like the Tri-Spark just like I like the Omega on the R65. Takes the worry out of riding a 39 year old motorcycle. BTW - The electrical system is also regulated by a single phase Typanium unit as the Zener diode doesn't work.
TTFN,
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Thanks. I was actually a little paranoid about having the electronics inside the timing case, where they can't really cool down. I still may get that, but I'll grill the guy first about wasted spark versus sequential firing....
I don't worry about my points ignition letting me down, I think it's reliable. What I don't like is the degradation in performance as the sliders wear, changing the dwell, which makes the bike slower. >:(
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I think that the biggest thing you can do is to change out the two condensors under the seat. They don't last that long. I have heard said that they start to go down hill after 18 months. If you have never changed them...well, throw them out and get some new ones. You might could get away with some from Rick at Motoelekrik. As for the rest a good points file when gapping the points and setting you timing every 2K (or is it 4K?) or so will keep things on the up and up.
As for heat and electronics - the Omega ignition has been under the front cover of the R65 for about 2 years with no ill effects...I'll keep you posted. Anything that makes a Brit bike simpler to maintain is OK in my book. The tri-Spark fits that bill.
TTFN,
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My trident has a Tri spark since I bought it. Its one of those things, its never given me any problems or issues enough to even notice its presence. Too bad I cant get the trispark people to retro fit something to stop the trail of oil I leave every where I go. [smiley=lolk.gif]
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My trident has a Tri spark since I bought it. Its one of those things, its never given me any problems or issues enough to even notice its presence. Too bad I cant get the trispark people to retro fit something to stop the trail of oil I leave every where I go. [smiley=lolk.gif]
The gaskets are of dubious construction (really thin and flimsey.) I think the Primary side gasket could be something on the thinkness of a BMW cylinder head cover gasket with no ill effects. Hmmm. perhaps I have found a mission in life!
I am half tempted to ride the Firebird to the Gathering of the Clans but my R65 has been sitting idle to much so it's time to stretch its legs.
TTFN
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Ive always thought that the seams the gaskets seal were the larger problem. The fact that the circumference of the seal goes over and under, as opposed to around, makes a leak inevitable. Then you throw in the narrow gaskets and vibrations to get my "British Trail of Tears". I love her anyway but I take the Beemer on the road trips and the Triumph to the local stops and shops. IMHO
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I'm very impressed by your avatar photo. If I'm not mistaken, it's from the first 5 minutes of "The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp." The cable television station specializing in cinema classics here shows "Blimp" every now and then. Both the film itself and its back story (Churchill's hating it, among other things) are fascinating. I've never seen a Michael Powell movie that I didn't like.
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Point of clarification: The preceding message (#13, sent by me) refers to mikeyd3's photo avatar of the British Army motorcycle couriers in formation. My apologies in advance for the off-topic posting. I posted the message on impulse, while I was bleary-eyed tired. I'll ask a question in another posting. JT
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Heck, we're impressed with his avatar too. Nice to hear where it's from.
;)
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Thanks. While we're here (since we're talking about other brands, I guess it's on-topic, more or less), can anyone who's seen "Colonel Blimp" or knows British Army equipment in general inform us what those bikes were in this sequence? (Because the film was made in 1943-44, I'd guarantee they aren't beemers. ;D) Perhaps some of our members in UK could enlighten us regarding early WWII standard=issue motorcycles there.
The film is unbelievably rich Technicolor. The gods only know how Michael Powell was able to get his hands on so much (163 minutes in its final cut) high-quality color film stock during the war, particularly in light of the hostility of the British government toward "Blimp."
Of interest to riders: The script refers to a WWI sidecar bike as a "bathtub," and the scenes involving it illustrate why. That's a British Army slang term I hadn't encountered previously.
For those who love films in general (with or without bikes), the cinematography, including the courier bike sequence, is ingenious. The bike sequence is the very opening of the movie, just after a brief shot of a teletype message being received in code; it establishes context more concisely, without a word of dialogue or narration, than any that I can remember.
BTW, "Colonel Blimp" is a film about humanity during and between wars, not a "war movie."
I recommend it. See it if you can. JT
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I have rebuilt the motor in the Thunderbolt and it is in and runs Great! BUT....
The left hand cylinder is smoking which is really odd because I have 150 PSI compression on both the left and right cylinders. The smoke clears up when I get out on the road and run at a constant RPM. It really starts to smoke when I'm sitting at a stop sign/light and I blip the throttle. So I'm burning oil like crazy. There are two theories:
1) The LH rings have not seated.
2) The LH intake valve guide is cracked and oil is being sucked into the cylinder from the top end.
I've got 500 miles on the motor and I'm going to put another 500 on it before we open up the top end and have a look which is too bad because other than that the thing runs great/sounds great.
Cruise Control:
I just put a NEP CC-2 throttle lock on the the Thunderbolt and it works great. I've got a second which looks like it will install on the R65 (sorly needed). All I've got to do is trim about 3mm of the innermost protion of the throttle grip away to give the throttle lock some space. It looks like it will clamp around the throttle friction screw where some have installed the flip lock for cruise control. If it works I will post pics later.
Greetings from Sunny Cold Atlanta 35'F
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Time for another BSA UPDATE!!
The Thunderbolt is still smoking. The head comes off in 350 miles to diagnose which is too bad because its running great.
I did something really cool yesterday. On the Firebird the Woodruff key that holds the Lucas rotor for the Alternator on the LH side got loose due to the DPO not setting the bolt to the right torque. These rotors are built around a steel collar and what eventually happens is that the steel on the collar seperates from the aluminum that hold the magnets (due to vibration)around the steel collar. Left to its own I will eventually explode. This is bad. In the mean time it makes setting the timing really hard. So I bought a new Wassel rotor and found the the key way on the crank was nolonger the right shape as it had also widened. I was devasted because it looked like I needed a new crank. Well I found out that all you need to do is get some wider key stock and file it down until it fits in the new wider slot and wala no more loose rotors.
I did this yesterday. Took about two hours and saved the crank. I can't tell you how chuffed I am about this. Was out running around on the Firebird today and it is now running great. Cost me all of 16 dollars for the files, some key stock, some red Locktite, and a gasket.
Too cool. I almost feel like a real mechanic.
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Was your rotor bad? Mine was. I was afraid that knocking sound was a rod or something, so I guess I was relieved when I found the cause.
What is key stock made from? I made an oversized one out of some scrap stainless steel I had around the shop, but I wonder if that's not really too hard.
Congratulations on that fix! Hopefully all you need is a new hone job and you'll get that bike to stop smoking. What grit hone did you use?
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Hi Ed,
I just went to my Hardware stor to get the key stock. Yes the rotor was bad on top of everything else. As for the Thunderbolt. I don't know. The person who did that part of the rebuild used a dingleberry hone. I don't know what the grit was. The compression is 150 left and right so there is a good chance that the intake valve guide is cracked and is sucking oil. I will find out after Daytona.
TTFN,
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The suspense is killing me - I gotta know how this turns out !
On a somewhat related note - if any of you Triumph aficionados are interested, this rather rare Trump showed up in CL up here - it is pricey, but probably worth it?
http://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/1035529174.html.
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Me too. Daytona is going on at the moment. My buddy Ron Mass won the AHRMA Classic 650 race on an old Norton. (I will get pictures of the bike). Ron is a bit of a ringer as he used to race Yamaha TZ-750's at Daytona back in the 1970's with AMA National Number 40. (Yamaha TZ-750 = Fire Breathing Monster on wheels)
I of course had to work flying around in the last big snow storm up the east coast. This made for long days.... :P
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Took apart head off the Thunderbolt today and...The intake valve guides/valve stems are a bit worn (.003" combined) so I'm getting some new valves and guides. Also tried a Hepolite ring instead of the ones that came with the new pistons and the end gap is a little tighter so those will go in as well. If I dont fly tomorrow I try to get some pictures. The carbon patterns in the piston dome are really interesting. There are parts of the piston near the edge that are clean... which after almost 1,000 miles is surprising.
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The Thunderbolt is back home with new valves and Hepolite rings. And just today I get the latest copy of Airhead and it has a deperaging article about the valves I put in the BSA! Arrgh. Oh well.
The tank for the T'bolt is being resealed so I can't run it yet. The saga continues. Thank the Lord I have an R65 (well sorted). ;)
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What valves did you use? I had Black Diamond valves put in my R100 when the heads were redone - no problems after 3 years. (knock-knock...)
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"Black Diamond"
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Same ones I had put in the r100 heads and I've had no problems. It seems that some "dyed-in-the-wool" Beemer snob "gurus" think any valve other than OEM is crap, but other "experts" seem to accept the Black Diamond valves is a viable substitute.
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I have them in my Triumph. But I doubt they'll last 60,000 miles like my original, defective BMW valves did. It easy to find lousy aftermarket British bike parts but I've always heard good things about Kibblewhite Black Diamond valves in that crowd. I was surprised by the article in Airmail too.
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Well...I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Anywho..The tanks is resealed and back on the bike. I'm going to crank it tomorrow.
In the meantime I'm thinking about buying this 1964 A65 Royal Star...I must be insain.
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That looks like a plush, stylish old touring bike! That sure is a fancy bit on the front fender.
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That DOES look quite sharp !
I've never seen a Beeza with a cow-catcher on the front of it !
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Yep! Cool old bike. Decisions decisions......
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This guy has some Beezer parts on flea-bay...
http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZaceQ2dmotorcycle
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Hey - I really like this - but what the heck is that chrome thingy attached to the forks? THAT I'm not really keen about. The rack almost looks like the spars for a convertable hood......Are the grips original?
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The grips are Original AMAL. I don't know where the cow catcher came from but I like it so it stays.
BTW - I bought it. It's hiding in the shed. :D
The Thunderbolt runs without smoke. No more burning oil. Life is good.