The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
General Category => Totally Off-Topic Discussions, Rants, Tire & Oil Threads, Etc. => Topic started by: Barry on November 14, 2011, 12:31:18 PM
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Has anyone heard of or tried the technique of treating fuel with TC-W3 rated 2 stroke oil at very low dosage along the lines of Marvel mystery oil etc ? It is claimed that adding high detergent 2 stroke oil to your fuel in a ratio of 1:640 provides some benefits including:
Corrosion protection to your fuel system and tank
Cleans plugs, rings and combustion chamber
Improves fuel consumption by 2 - 5 %
The originator appears to be here and there is more info on the net if you Google "TCW3 fuel treatment".
http://www.ls1.com/forums/f48/been-testing-91206/
I can see how it would provide some corrosion protection and possibly even clean up the combustion chambers over time. The fuel saving is harder to visualise unless dirty carbs/fuel injection system had reduced it in the first place.
It has to be TC-W3 rated marine 2 stroke oil which is very high detergent and also unlike other 2 stroke oils burns without leaving any ash deposits.
Maybe it's snake oil, maybe not. At worst it's very cheap snake oil compared to other fuel treatments on the market and I can't see it doing any harm at very low dosage. As the cost is negligible I may give it a try.
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Please do and let us know. I wonder if this stuff would be helpful in the never ending increase of ethanol in our fuel?
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Please do and let us know.I wonder if this stuff would be helpful in the never ending increase of ethanol in our fuel?
I found a litre bottle of Total TC-W3 oil for a very low price so I'm going to try it as it only adds 0.5% to the cost of the fuel. The bottle would last me for several years on the bike so I'll put some in the car as well.
Not sure how it helps with ethanol but the link I provided does make some reference to it as one of the target benefits.
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I think I'm going to give it a whirl. We all know that the increasing Ethanol levels in gas play hell with Bing floats and other rubber bits so I can't see that it will hurt.
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It's easy to get carried away and imagine subjective changes in the way an engine runs after using some magic potion fuel additive. Many people have claimed smoother idle and improved fuel economy due to using TC-W3 2 stroke oil. I thought I would report back in 6 months or so but after running with the 2 stroke oil for only a few days I've already noticed a change which I think is not subjective.
Running on 95 Ron unleaded fuel I can deliberately induce a little bit of pinging somewhere between 2500 - 3000rpm if I lugg the engine going up a particular hill on he way home from work. Same gear same speed It's a very repeatable test that normally is able to tell me I got a good or bad tank of fuel.
After dosing with the 2 stroke oil half way through a tank of fuel I now can't make it ping at all. Keep trying it and not so much as a tinkle.
Time will tell but if that's the only improvement I get it'll do for me. Only explanation I can think of is that the trace of oil slows down the rate of burn a little.
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It very well may increase the motor octane number a hair. I put some in the R1150 yesterday and really about all I can say is the exhaust smells a bit different! After your experience I may put some in my truck which is very easy to induce pinging in...
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Not totally change the topic as my question does relate to gasoline additives -- does anyone use a lead substitute additive in their R65? Would this reduce pinging and valve wear?
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does anyone use a lead substitute additive in their R65?Would this reduce pinging and valve wear?
I've monitored valve clearances very carefully and not noticed any evidence of valve recession at all so I don't bother with an additive on that score. Mind you I think my valve seats were made before BMW made "the mistake" in the early 80's. I've never tried one of the retail octane booster additives.
A bit of research on the net will find some lab tests which show that octane boosters do increase the octane but not by as much as they claim and in some cases by no where near as much. Given the very high cost relative to buying higher octane fuel I wouldn't consider them.
Here's one lab test but there are a few more around.
http://www.fueltechexperts.com/2008/08/08/octane-boosters-which-is-best/
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I used Castrol Valvemaster Plus for several 1000 miles but it made no noticeable difference to anything as far as I could tell. More recently I was nostalgically delighted to find that dear old Redex still exists and I tip a bit in occasionally. I've been told that Wynn's is good but it seems to have disappeared. Maybe these things are all just snake-oil but I'll try the TC-W3 if I can find any. Sounds like maybe a shipchandler's thing? Well, there is one near here.
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I put some pictures up ages ago about the effect of fuel additive on rubber components...... not good,i run on unleaded without additives and have had no issues for 6k miles.
Lou
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Barry, I just dumped some of the Penzoil TC-W3 semi-synthetic stuff in my truck to see if it will reduce my pinging. It pings like crazy on the regular grade gas so hopefully it will be easy to tell whether or not it helps. If it does then that right there is worth the price of admission for me!
Lou, this stuff being basically oil I think it should probably be quite gentle on fuel system components.
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It cured mine but I only had very slight pinging under provocation.
I did some more research and found that several other people had also reported that pinging was reduced by using TC-W3. Hope it helps with yours.
Another thing confirmed was that it doesn't matter if it's mineral based or synthetic based 2 stroke oil as long as it's TW-W3 rated.
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I don't have much to report on the bike but after 1.5 tanks through the truck the pinging is significantly reduced or maybe even gone! Hopefully it'll warm up enough to get some more miles on the bike to see how it likes it.
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I ran into this cross country Harley rider a couple months back. He asked me were the nearest airport was. Seems he ran airplane fuel in his bike. I was later talking to my mechanic friend, and he said that would definatly raise the lead and octane level in the bike, but that there was not reason to run an entire tank of the stuff. A pint per tank would do the job.
Next spring I plan on buying a couple gallons to add to my fuel and see what happens. Ya never know...
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I ran into this cross country Harley rider a couple months back. He asked me were the nearest airport was. Seems he ran airplane fuel in his bike. I was later talking to my mechanic friend, and he said that would definatly raise the lead and octane level in the bike, but that there was not reason to run an entire tank of the stuff. A pint per tank would do the job.
Next spring I plan on buying a couple gallons to add to my fuel and see what happens. Ya never know...
A few random thoughts...
A blend of 2:1 100LL auto/av gas may benefit the power output of a motorcycle engine if the engine is pushing a compression ratio of 10:1 or higher.
Running straight Avgas may contribute to burned exhaust valves.
Modern 100LL AvGas is formulated for very low compression, air-cooled aircraft engines and contains additives especially made for those engines.
Running a mixture of avgas in a 'modern' bike may improve performance at high rpms and speeds, but it may also run hotter.
Deposit buildup or plug fouling may occur with 100LL.
Rejetting and fettling the carburetors might be needed.
And here's a final thought... Security at airports, both small and large, has become serious business. When I need fuel, I radio the FBO and they send a fuel truck and a line boy. Some airports offer self-serv fuel but you taxi your aircraft from the active to the fuel facility; there's seldom access to the ramp without a key card or code number.
Weighing the hassle factor against unlikely benefits, I'd take a pass. Other opinions? :-?
Monte
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A pint per tank would do the job
Snowbum talks of just this and says you only need a small amount of lead to achieve any needed benefit with valve seat recession.
I don't have much to report on the bike but after 1.5 tanks through the truck the pinging is significantly reduced or maybe even gone!
I was cautious about claiming any effect but it really does seem to reduce pinging. Still not sure how it manages this as it's not an octane booster in the conventional sense. I'm short of miles on the bike too and it's the wrong time of year to be looking for improvements in fuel consumption.
I am glad to have a little oil in there though during the storage period as I'm not intending to drain the tank this year.
I did empty the bowls today as the bike has been stood for 3 weeks with maybe 3 more weeks to come depending on when the roads dry out. Surprisingly in that short time getting on for half the fuel in the bowl had already evaporated. Easy to see how carbs can get gummed up in storage.
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Just an update. After several tanks of this snake-oil treated regular unleaded I think it's safe to say that the pinging on my 2001 Dodge P/U is for all practical purposes gone! Although the results in the truck are very obvious I can't tell anything is different in the '93 Volvo 240 and have no0t put enough miles on the RTP to draw any conclusions.
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I've run through a few tanks as well. Definitely helps with pinging in the bike and in my old Merc smooths the idle.
So far doesn't look to have had any impact on fuel economy but I'd need a lot more data to be sure.