The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Justin B. on November 20, 2006, 06:42:15 PM
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I have had a couple of coil questions so I figured I'd re-post (on this forum) a pictoral comparo between the stocker and Dyna.
Here is the stock "Crack-O-Matic" coil, complete with crack:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.charter.net%2Fjbowser%2Fpics%2F82%2520R65LS%2F1982%2520R65LS%2520-%2520stock_cracked.jpg&hash=f68a145b314100b1d00b6b6d9abce382a8a36450)
and compared to the Dyna unit:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.charter.net%2Fjbowser%2Fpics%2F82%2520R65LS%2F1982%2520R65LS%2520-%2520stock_vs_dyna_comparo.jpg&hash=d72e93412aa1d89799f12a2aa6c68a4de7caa3c7)
After fabbing a mounting bracket using part of the old coil and some aluminum angle stock:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.charter.net%2Fjbowser%2Fpics%2F82%2520R65LS%2F1982%2520R65LS%2520-%2520dyna_coil_1.jpg&hash=d3a41096bf89b3e578ff2668b6fa766aa0008fb2)
One more time:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.charter.net%2Fjbowser%2Fpics%2F82%2520R65LS%2F1982%2520R65LS%2520-%2520dyna_coil_2.jpg&hash=48873b2b168e8f86aaf96f5efcc950cda80ed318)
Finally, installed on bike:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.charter.net%2Fjbowser%2Fpics%2F82%2520R65LS%2F1982%2520R65LS%2520-%2520dyna_coil_installed_1.jpg&hash=637836e9363e18e067b703ac0d390cf4d0e6b9cd)
A little closer shot:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.charter.net%2Fjbowser%2Fpics%2F82%2520R65LS%2F1982%2520R65LS%2520-%2520dyna_coil_installed_2.jpg&hash=a402e7f85699c15e1182aad64cbbc5b468ffb788)
I'll probably take this back off and raise the back of the coil about 3/8" higher to angle the wires up to keep from touching the timing chain cover, although I doubt it'll hurt anything. AND, it's only a bit more than HALF what a new stock Bosch unit is!! I think that's the best part! ;D
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Hi Justin,
Ignition wires wear quickly when rubbing. Wrap the wire with some white spiral plastic (teflon?) and keep those wires from wearing thin. Trouble will only ensue otherwise.
BTW - Love the dyna though. If I hadn't gone with the Bosch Blue yours is the next route I would have taken.
B.
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An old-time cure for the rubbing wire blues was cloth-braided fuel line. I like the look.
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Hi, first time here. Everything I've read says "fat, blue spark" at the plug is the way to go: I guess "puny yellow spark" is not a good thing.
Getting ready to go test resistance, although I'm pretty sure the stock coil on my '84 R65 is shot.
Can anyone suggest a good retailer of the Dyna "Brown" coil I've seen mentioned in several places, or have a part/model #?
Thanks much.
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I bought my Dyna brown coil from Motorrad Elektrik about a month ago, for $80 and $6 for shipping. Took three days shipping time from around the Birmingham, Alabama to Phoenix.
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Thanks, Bob.
From Motorrad's website ( http://www.motoelekt.com/ignition.htm ), it looks and reads like there's no additional bracketry to buy either, correct? Does the Dyna bolt right up using the 2 existing holes and fasteners? Did you run into any problems?
Thanks again.
Steve
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Steve, a bracket will either have to be purchased or fabricated. I don't know if the coils from Motorad Elektrik come with the bracket or not. I bought a pair of coils from http://www.mpsracing.com/products/Dyna/ig01aa.asp for $130.80, or $65.40 per coil, they sell single's for $72. I figured I'd eventually need another as we have two other bikes with original dual coils. :-? But, if you aren't inclined to fabricate your own mounting bracket, and the M.E. coil comes with a bracket, they may be the better deal in your situation.
I just went back and re-read the ME web site and do see that the single coil comes with a bracket. So, if you aren't a tinkerer at heart they may be the way to go - still considerably cheaper than the stock unit.
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NC Steve (and others) - in case you wonder what I edited in your most recent post, it was your link. You needed a space between the end of the URL and your closing parenthese.
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Hi Rob
Thanks for the edit, I wasn't sure why the link wasn't working myself!
And, checking the coil's primary resistance yielded a reading of .7 ohms, so it's definitely gone: much thanks to this link and the discussion started by Clutch on spark plugs for helping me to figure this one out.
Steve
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NC Steve, sorry about not getting back to you sooner, but if you buy a coil without the adapter bracket, the Dyna will not fit, and unless you are good at bending sheetmetal it may turn into a project. The bracket that comes from Motorrad Elektrik bolts right on, you have to mount the bracket first to the frame, then install the coil to the bracket. Also the low voltage terminals should be pointed toward the center of the bike, if they are pointing away from the frame, when you install the tank, it will push the wires down and at least one of them will come in contact with the metal laminations of the coil and ground it out and the engine won't start ( not that I did that !). Takes about an hour to perform the installation. You may want to apply a very small amount of dielectric grease to the rubber boot of the ignition lead that goes over the output of the coil, this can be a bit tough to install dry. So if you break it down, it's $10 for the bracket and $70 for the coil, still alot better than an OEM unit.
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Hey Bob, yeah I like that math better than that of the stock Bosch unit, and will definitely spring for the bracket too. Justin found the same coil for $72 w/o the bracket, but it's worth the $8 to me to have a bolt-on fix. I've emailed motorrad and plan to follow up with a call tomorrow.
Thanks again.
Steve
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My new Dyna "brown" coil came today, along with a shiny new set of NGK wires and a pair of plugs.
Order on Monday, delivery on Wednesday: talk about service!! Even sent some detailed installation instructions.
Thanks, Bob Roller, for steering me to Motorrad Elektrik!
Now, if the weather gods will just hold off a few days, I might be able to get this thing fired up again by lunchtime Saturday.....
PS: And thank you too, Justin, for helping me figure out the problem and suggesting Dyna in the 1st place.
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I hope it works out for ya. And, remember, if it doesn't fix it I didn't say it WOULD but it MIGHT! ;) On my LS it was pretty much a no-brainer, no spark period and the primary showed completely open... I may already have a home for the other coil as the wife's '84 has been getting harder to start and I'm sure it has the original coil...
Maybe post a different thread with a couple pics of the install and any issues you might run into.
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My Dyna coil is going to gets it's real test tonight, forecast low tomorrow morning for Tempe , Az. is 30 F (but it's a dry cold!) got the battery on charge now and will remove it at 9 pm and take the bike and leave it outside all night and see what happens at 5 am. NC Steve I've done business with M E for about 9 years, and have always been satisfied with the service and components, and the willingness to offer help with electrical issues. You never did mention if you had the original gray or upgraded red coil.
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It was 31 F. at 5am, the bike took 4 attempts but it did start. I think the 20w50 engine oil wasn't helping the situation. So the Dyna coil did solve my cold starting issue.
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Thanks for the update, Bob, and glad to hear that your new Dyna coil fired up at 31 F! Hopefully I'll have similar good luck!
And, for the record, my '84 had the upgrade red coil, no cracks anywhere, but was only putting out between .6 - .7 ohms, so it was definitely weak. I think with the new Dyna coil + new wires and plugs my starting problems will be over (I hope!!)
Steve
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TA DA!!
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Cool, I suppose the mount IS a bit prettier than mine... ;) Good show! [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
Did it start?
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Oh yeah, it absolutely started.
Gas on, choke on, switch on, hit the button and instant fire up!
Drop to half choke, then none, and it was idling smooth within 2-3 minutes, impressive since it hadn't started in about 3 weeks!
PS: Here's the old Bosch, by the way...
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Good deal, hopefully these Dyna coils will live a lot longer than the stock unit. I may put my other one on Barbara's bike as once it gets under about 60 degrees hers is kind of a PITA to start.
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Great info here. Thanks. I put the engine from an '80 RT into an '83 R65 chassis. I used the dual output coil from the R65. It became a blue smoke generator on my ride to Tail of the Dragon a couple of weeks ago. What do you all think should be my coil setup? Two 6v blues or a something like the dual output Dyna?
Thanks again.
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As long as the engine runs and has a healthy blue spark, I would say not to worry about your coils.
The smoke is most likely NOT related to your coils in anyway.
We are going to need to know as much as possible about the R100 engine to help at all.
Justin is trying to bring a LS back from the grave, and he is having similar smoke issues (see http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1165102004 ).
You may have troubles inside the engine. Did you save the 650 engine?
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The engine died while climbing up to Deals Gap. After the smoke disapated, the coil was leaking oil or PCB's whatever and after replacing with a $15 used coil from a Japanese bike in Robbinsville, NC, the bike started and ran fine. It got me home to N. FL.
The engine came from an '80 R100RT that had been converted to an S. No engine mods. Bolted right into the 1983 R65 chassis. Exhaust, carbs, etc. were used from the R100RT and the coil, voltage regulator, wiring harness, etc. on the R65 were used. The only issues from the conversion are that the brake pedal on the R65 chassis hits the right side muffler. I'm not sure if I should get a custom brake pedal made or use the R65 pipes and have the headers made to fit. The R65 pipes may be too restrictive for the R100. 2nd issue is the tach doesn't work. I used the R65 tach and I don't know what it's looking for from the engine.
I do still have the R65 engine. Ran until I did the conversion. Needs Valve covers. Tranny and carbs need a rebuild.
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Hey Where is FrankenBeemer from Chattanoga, TN? Didn't he have one of these? :-?
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I had never heard of a coil leaking oil before. That would be very messy, indeed. I had a power transformer on a real old electric typewriter (1950's?) start dripping black stuff when I used it, once. I was young and stupid, and just threw it away! :'(
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My Lucas coils have screws which I believe are for filling with oil. I don't know what kind of oil, as I've never had to add any. If I have them off the bike I can hear it sloshing a tiny bit when I shake them, but they're too full to slosh much.
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Yeah, a lot of old automotive coils were oil filled and you could hear them slosh when shook, never did have any with a drain plug, though... "Gee, hon, I'd just love to go shopping with you tonight but I gotta, uh, umm, errr, change the oil in my coils! Yeah, that's the ticket, changin' that ol' coil oil... You wouldn't want me to break down half way to work tomorrow in the cold, would you?" ;D
But, maybe because LUCAS chose to do something like that is why I've never seen it before! :P
Sounds like a plan, Ed! ;)
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In the automotive world Lucas Electrics is known as the "Prince of Darkness".
Up in Canada somewheres there is a party-club whose name has something to do with Lucas whoes motto I think is "Home before darK'. Where did I see that...
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Oh, you REALLY don't want the oil to come out of oil filled coils - it contains some nasty stuff
that is not in 'normal' motor oils. Like electrolytic capacitors, the cases are usually designed
to "vent" .ie. leak out oil if they become overheated, otherwise there is the potential for them
to build up pressure and rupture explosively. What would cause your coil to so severely overheat ?
Well, it could have had a defect/crack in it which caused an internal short, or perhaps it
was of the type which needed resistor caps and you didn't have them installed, or somehow
one of your plugs becamse shorted, temporarily. Of all these, most likely it was a latent
internal defect. Glad to hear that you didn't have any injuries and that you were able to quickly get yourself
back on the road !!!
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My coil setup is totally different. It seems to match the coils shown on the parts microfiche but the mounts look like a bodge to me. Anyone else have this bosch setup?
rich
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That seems to be the position they are mounted on my '80. I was under the impression, though, that the electronic ignition models all had the single dual output coil so somebody might have converted yours over to the older dual coil arrangement...
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That is what it looks like to me, as well.