The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: suecanada on May 30, 2008, 02:41:34 PM
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Do any of you fellows have any ideas about either getting rid of that "one cable into two cables distributor under the tank with a wee piston inside"arrangement for the 1983 R65LS's throttle? It is so stiff at my handlebar that it barely returns and is very hard on my hand over a long journey. Does anyone have this arrangement PLUS a easy twist at the handlebar?? I tried the lighter springs and that didn't work as they were too light. Maybe, just maybe my wee piston inside the distributor is burred or sticky...graphite might help??....WD 40 makes no difference. The throttle stuck on last weekend and the WD-40 helped to stop that but still is very stiff. Was an interesting ride for awhile :o
Anyone changed to a 2 cable system throughout? I don't need the throttle as light as the new bike but a little lighter would help a lot.
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How do the splines look on the handle bars at the twistgrip? If they are worn they can make the throttle feel stiff and even stick, they should also be greased at least once a year.
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I just found out that Flanders sells splitters of their own.
Short link (http://www.flanderscompany.com/action.lasso?-search&-database=_Flan_Levers.fp5&-layout=Cables1&-Format=FlanCableResults.html&-Error=FlanCableError.html&-Operator=Contains&Type=Splitter&Catagory=CablePart)
They may be superior to OEM. I don't know. I found out about them on a discussion on Boxerworks (http://www.boxerworks.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=226896&t=226896).
If I understand it correctly, to swap to a two-cable throttle, you need two throttle cables, a different cam/chain piece, and a new top cover.
It seems to me, the change from two cables to one occurred when they changed the round master cylinder reservoir for the rectangular. I don't know if the top covers on the two perches are interchangeable.
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Sue,
If you haven't done so already give the single cable a yank at the splitter to see if the binding is really happening at the splitter. I'm suspecting that you'll be able to operate the 2 short cables without them binding. I'm suspicious of the gears & chain under The cover of the twist grip itself. Worn? Dried grease? Rusty? You may have checked this already but because you didn't mention it I'm wonderin'
rich
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Oh, and, uh... you don't have a throttle set-screw on the underside of the perch, do you??? ::)
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If I remember correctly, Sue replaced the throttle tube and cam assembly not too long ago, so my next question, how old are the cables ?
I personally would remove the cables, clean them, and re-lube them with a light oil.
Then see if this helps out, if not, it's most likely a cable set replacement.
You can swap out the two lower cables from the 'choke' system, they are the same as the two lower throttle cables, and see if it makes any difference.
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Yup, all new parts (cam, top cover etc, everything there is in the throttle assembly at the handlebar. All greased with a fairly light grease too and I even took the throttle tube off and put synthetic oil on the tube/handlebar part to lighten up things there too. I had used moly before if I remember correctly. The cables were bought new say 10,000 miles ago when I got the bike. Changing over to the 2 cable system could be quite expensive I suppose.
I'll keep at it and thanks for the advice. No one said whether or not they experience something similar with the one into two system on their bike. Anyone? Do you snap back, plod back or something in between? I really hate this job as nhmaf knows only too well too. Bite the bullet time. I even have a new wee piston to put in there. Dry graphite OK inside the distributor?
Built-in governor screw is not a factor here but always worth asking that's for sure! :-[
Thanks.
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Sue,
When I first got my 82 LS, the throttle was slow to return, but it seemed to get much better after I had taken the throttle tube and mechanism apart
and cleaned it all with WD-40 and put a bit of grease on the gear end.. what seemed to help the most was taking the thing off the handlebar as it seemed
that some grease had gotten inside the tube and on the handlebar surface and hardened/become quite sticky that was resisting the pull of the springs.
I also replaced one or two carb springs as they were VERY rusty and looking to be on their last legs.
As you know, I've had the splitters apart, and I've replaced the upper cables for both the throttle and the choke. this didn't seem to do much as far as throttle or choke response goes, but it is all working pretty well right now. I DO also have new lower cables to install, which I will probably get to a bit later this summer - things seem to be working well now though I know the lower cables are rather worn... it is just getting in there to battle with those gosh darn splitter widgets is such a PITA ! While having the cable juntions/splitters apart, I noticed that it was fairly easy for the square ends of the lower cables to become twisted or crooked in the holder, such that they square ends could protrude outside of the plastic "disc" and rub against the shell of the junction assembly. This would certainly cause drag, but the only only way to tell is to get in there - argh ! I think a bit of graphite inside the cable splitter thingie wouldn't hurt anything at all, but it probably won't do anything to combat corrosion.
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Sue,
I remember you describing your frustration with dealing with the internals of the splitter.
Do you think something could be awry in there, again? Have you checked? Or did you just spray WD-40 in there (WD-40 is not a lubricant, remember).
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I took the throttle splitter apart on the '82 LS after I brought it home and the little piston-thingy came out in several pieces so I machined one out of aluminum that works fantastic! I wouldn't use any liquid lubricant here, maybe some spray-on dry moly or graphite...
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I have been experiencing the same problem with a stiff throttle. In cleaning the master cylinder assembly, I took everything apart, cleaned it, and regreased it with a little but not great improvement. It just makes sense (to me anyway) that the problem is with a binding or stiff cable or a worn spline/chain. Good luck and let us know what you find out. On another note, sorry there are no Canadian teams in the Stanley Cup finals. It just isn't right!
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Graham has a 1981 R100 and he went to the 2 throttle cable system and says it makes a world of difference! He rode into the dealership (many years ago) and told them, "either fix this stiff throttle or I'm getting rid of this bike!" That was only after about 30 miles of riding. They took the system off a late model R80RT. They had to replace the entire handlebar unit as you need room for both cables going into the throttle cam. We just went out to compare mine to his and his is about half the effort of mine. He had tried all the suggested fixes and nothing else worked for him.
You might want to try RePsycle or a breakers to find a unit off another bike - you may have to specify the two throttle system as I think they split the year in 1984.
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Yup, all new parts (cam, top cover etc, everything there is in the throttle assembly at the handlebar. All greased with a fairly light grease too and I even took the throttle tube off and put synthetic oil on the tube/handlebar part to lighten up things there too. I had used moly before if I remember correctly. The cables were bought new say 10,000 miles ago when I got the bike. Changing over to the 2 cable system could be quite expensive I suppose.
I'll keep at it and thanks for the advice. No one said whether or not they experience something similar with the one into two system on their bike. Anyone? Do you snap back, plod back or something in between? I really hate this job as nhmaf knows only too well too. Bite the bullet time. I even have a new wee piston to put in there. Dry graphite OK inside the distributor?
Built-in governor screw is not a factor here but always worth asking that's for sure! :-[Thanks.
Sue,
I had a binding throttle about 10 years ago, took the cables out, and in the 'relaxed' state out of the bike, the cables felt fine, but when re-assembled, and with tension applied by the adjusters, the cable system bound up badly, couldn't figure out which cable was the offending one, so I replaced all three.
As far as lubricant in the splitter, I don't think it is a real requirement, as when the cables are tensioned, the splitter 'piston' sould be suspended away from the plastic outer case.
I put a few applications of light grease on the cap threads, and where the cables come through, just to prevent water from getting in there.
Have you taken a look at the routing of the throttle cables ?
They may have gotten into a binding situation over the last few years.
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I have just put a new master cylinder with a rectangular reservoir onto my old 1979 R65 dual cable twist grip which used to have a round reservoir master cylinder on it. It can be done, but I think you will have to change one of the master cylinder securing bolts.
I did this when I went down to a single front brake disc.
Nice to see that there is something on the 1979/80 R65's that is better than the post 81's ;)
By the way, the single disk is working just fine.
Cheers
Steve H
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Nice to see that there is something on the 1979/80 R65's that is better than the post 81's ;)
Cheers
Steve H
Clamshell airbox!
I would like to have a rectangular reservoir someday just to better accommodate the G/S brushguards of which I have grown fond.
Not sure I want to give up dual cables, though.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F90930226%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=6dbc763872b61f67e590dca122b60c614bbcca1b)
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That is what I am saying, you do not have to Rob.
Steve H :)
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Oh, but Steve, see how shabby this is!
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F90927267%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=899710e0c240934826e0c116c63f520439dcf9d0) (http://www.pbase.com/tomfarr/hand_guards)
click for more photos
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I took my throttle apart to grease it and when I put it back it was as you described in your post. The thing was very difficult to twist and sticking with open throttle. I realised that I must have disturbed something so I pulled it apart again. The first time that I put it back (as per manual) I looked for the marks to line up on the gear which "pulls the throttle chain". I had mistaken the casting mark for the line.(DOH!) I cleaned the grease off to find the mark and then realised that the lining up mark on the twistgrip is actually on one of the teeth. I lined up the marks, refitted the top and "Hey Presto" it all works beautifully again. Maybe you should check the alignment marks are in the correct place.
Mike
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Hi Sue,
I got my first BM recently, a '78 R100 RS, which had been converted to the handlebar brake reservoir, with two throttle cables . The action felt like I was grinding walnut shells in a peppermill.
I replaced the moving parts, and made new cables, and now things are smooth, but still very
heavy on the wrist.
I confess to using bicycle gear cable materials, and I suspect friction may not be as important
in that application. The proper cable outers are lined with something like plastic, which I suppose
eventually wears through wherever a bend occurs.
Ironically, this is the mechanical equivalent of "Tennis Elbow" a painful condition which makes a
heavy throttle particularly unwelcome.........
On the Airheads website a spring device inside the handlebar is described, it's a simple job, though
the spring should be chosen with care, my attempts didn't come to much, and the idea makes me slightly apprehensive!
So maybe we both need to look at those cables?
Best Wishes,
Sunbeem.
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Oh dear my new R100 has this single pull throttle arangement and it is as stiff as....well you know.
Next job will be to solve this issue.
But I can see already that I need a new twist grip as there is some play in it.
Having a throttle that will return to the off position unaided is an MOT requirement. My bike will currently fail.
R65 Cafe Racer is very smooth and light in comparison as it is the 1979 twin pull as mentioned above - so I now know what you are all talking about....
Cheers
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I see that I never got back to the Forum on this issue!! Wonder why?? Anyway, I decided to take all the cables and distributor right off one day before I left on my trips south and west. Noting of course the routing!!! I poked and prodded what I could to test the thing off the bike so:
What I found was that the NEW single cable that goes to the handlebar twist was very hard to push and pull it in and out when attached to the piston/distributor. I then isolated it (took it out of the distributor) as well as the bottom two cables. (The bottom two cables could move the piston within the distributor and they could be pulled in and out easily when not attached to anything.) So I concluded the piston WAS NOT the problem and neither were the bottom two cables.
This leaves the top single cable.... even when isolated one had quite a time moving it in and out within its sheath!! I even tried to dribble some oil down it against all the rules to no avail. SO I put the original cable on!!! (The original cable wasn't looking bad at all and served as a good comparison. ITS cable moved very freely within its sheath!!! I dusted some dry graphite into the distributor and put everything back together. I even took the throttle tube off and cleaned off the handlebar and greased with a lighter oil/grease mix. Checked lube/alignment of gear at the throttle cam and screwed everything back down.
Conclusion...new parts aren't always perfect and don't always work! The throttle isn't as snappy as nhmaf's Tillies but it certainly is a huge improvement!! Returns pretty well. I am happy for now but need to remember to order a "new" spare upper throttle cable!!
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Hmmm, can you send the "new" cable back for exchange?
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Looks like I have every chance of getting away with a 'clean and lube'.
Something to bear in mind when I have finally managed to release the carb balancing screws.....to enable me to use my 4$ balancer - which I am a fan of.
Cheers for the update.
Steve H
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This is a another opportunity for me to flog one of my favorite tips. I keep on hand a decent selection of electronic type black shring tubing with internal adhesive/sealant. The one into two junction of the throttle is one spot that benefits. Keeps the elements out once you've got things working perfectly. Service is no prob cause you just scissor it off and put new on afterward. Actually the best way to remove this stuff is with one of those hook blades that goes in your Stanley utility knife.
I've put this stuff on a dozen or so places on my bike and it's amazing. I always seal electrical connections, spark plug to coil connection, vacuum line connections, etc. It's also great for building up strain relief, esp where the choke and throttle cables connect at the carb. I swear this stuff was made for motorcycles!
Don't look in Radio Shack. You have to go to a real electronics supply for the heavier walled internal adhesive grade.
Oh, and steve... i'm now a convert to the four dollar balancer as well! My variant uses aquarium tube (i just knew that thirty foot bag of random tubing that I picked up at goodwill was gonna come in handy). I took a 2 X 36 X 1/4 oak stick and painted it white with black lines across every half inch. Drilled holes along both sides every six inches and secured the tube with the tiniest zip ties I had on hand. I tried 2cycle oil first but it was just too heavy. I cleaned that out completely and tried 7W fork oil (tinted a deep blue). Must say I had my doubts that anything this easy could do as advertised but I balanced the vacuum from idle all the way up to about 4500 and WOW. I've had this bike for almost twenty years. This is the first time it's been so sewing machine smooth out on the road.
I've heard reasonable objections to the method. Especially that vacuum alone is not going to accurately take into account mixture, spark, etc. I'm nowhere near a 'mechanic' or engineer but I realize that vacuum/combustion/spart/mixture/etc are going to be a new ballgame depending upon whether the motor is spinning freely in the shop, or pulling a motorcycle and rider down the road.
Say one EXACT throttle position gives you exactly 2500 rpm on both cylinders while the bike's on its stand. When the motor is pulling the bike and rider into the wind, that EXACT throttle position may not balance nearly as accurately between cylinders because operation under load makes different demands on spark strength (for instance) and mixture and other conditions that may not be mirror perfect between the carbs.
I'm not convinced that 'static' methods of tuning via single cylinder rpm spotting is therefore superior to doing it with the diy manometer. While the jury's out, I'll do it this way from now on since it's so damn easy, and I'm so impressed with the results on the road.
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I've read that some folks strap something similar to the bike and tweak the cables while under load. Sounds like a lot of work...
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Dont forget Tony Heyman`s rather splendid modified Bing Springs...well worth fitting and at very modest cost too :)
Tony can be found at :
channelcat57@yahoo.com
www.canbeseen.com/10
Have a read her for more info:
http://www.airheads.org/content/view/277/98/
Its all in the wrist action I reckon !!!