The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Spicy_McHaggis on August 03, 2008, 10:06:05 PM
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The moto: 1984 R65 w/6500 miles on it.
The person: 1971 Michigan model, apparently doesn't know what the heck he is doing.
The story: My R65 would take anywhere from 5-15 minutes to start each morning. Choke would help only a little bit...so I figured, okay, I'll just go through the carbs and clean things up, new gaskets/orings.
Took the L side carb off first. Stripped it all down, cleaned it up real well using carb cleaner. Installed the new gaskets, o-rings, diaphragm. Carb #1 done.
Then I took off the R side carb, and did the same thing. Except I discovered that a previous owner had - for some reason - completely stripped the head off the main venturi (the big one) on it. There was nothing left. I am surprised the main jet could even thread into it. The problem...I couldn't get it out. Dunno what he did, but I tried everything. Soaked it in PB Blaster a few times for a few days. Nothing. Tried heat. Nothing. Nothing would work. I really wanted to get it out and fix it correctly, and give that carb a good cleaning as well. But to no avail.
Okay, no worries, I've got this other carb that came with the moto. It's off an '82 R65. Looks identical. Cleaned it all up, mixed and matched some of the parts, and reassembled it. Looks good.
Replaced all the fuel lines with some of that expensive high-quality stuff. Check.
Fired it up. Kind of. Took a few mins to get fuel, etc. Then it started. And it ran like total sh!t. It's running real rough. About 100x rougher than BEFORE I cleaned it all up.
I've about had it. I am at my wits end. What the heck happened? What should I be looking for? I really want/need to get this moto back up and running...fast.
Any thoughts/suggestions are more than welcome at this point in time.
Thanks!
Spicy
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All I can suggest is what the handbook says:
"Adjusting Engine Idling.
Stopped engine bust be at operating
temperature. Tighten idle mixture
control screw fully on both carburetors.
Loosen it by 3/4 turn. Adjust throttle
butterfly stop screw on both carburetors
until it just touches throttle butterfly
lever. Then turn clockwise 1/2 turn.
Start engine. Adjust engine idle
speed to 950 +/- 150 rpm by turning
simultaneously both throttle butterfly screw.
Adjust both idle mixture control screws
simultaneously to maximum idle speed.
Then turn them clockwise (remember, you are upside down!)
not more than 1/4 turn.
Adjusting Throttle Cables.
The free movement of the throttle
cables must be identical on both
carburetors (0.5 to 1mm/0.02 to 0.04 inch).
If necessary, loosen lock the lock nut
and turn the throttle cable adjusting screw
to the right to increase free play or
to the left to reduce play.
And make yourself a $5 balancer if you don't know how to balance carbs by ear. (I still do not.)
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Just a thought, look at the throttle and 'choke' cables, and see if you might have gotten them switched at the carb.
If there is no problem there, a full carb adjustment/synchronization is most likely required.
There is a vertical web at the front of the carb, and it has numbers etched into the metal like : 64/32/325, I don't know how critical it is to have a matched set, like : 64/32/325 for the left, and then 64/32/326 for a right side carb.
Back to your original problem, check your ignition coil, and see if it is gray and black in color, this original OEM coil has gotten the name 'crack-o-matic' coil, and is quite prone to failure.
Check the primary winding resistance, it should be around 1.5 ohms, the secondary windings should be around 11-13,000 ohms.
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Thanks...doing the below now...
All I can suggest is what the handbook says:
"Adjusting Engine Idling.
Stopped engine bust be at operating
temperature. Tighten idle mixture
control screw fully on both carburetors.
Loosen it by 3/4 turn. Adjust throttle
butterfly stop screw on both carburetors
until it just touches throttle butterfly
lever. Then turn clockwise 1/2 turn.
Start engine. Adjust engine idle
speed to 950 +/- 150 rpm by turning
simultaneously both throttle butterfly screw.
Adjust both idle mixture control screws
simultaneously to maximum idle speed.
Then turn them clockwise (remember, you are upside down!)
not more than 1/4 turn.
Adjusting Throttle Cables.
The free movement of the throttle
cables must be identical on both
carburetors (0.5 to 1mm/0.02 to 0.04 inch).
If necessary, loosen lock the lock nut
and turn the throttle cable adjusting screw
to the right to increase free play or
to the left to reduce play.
And make yourself a $5 balancer if you don't know how to balance carbs by ear. (I still do not.)
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Thanks Bob, once I'm done with the other list I'll try your suggestions...!
Just a thought, look at the throttle and 'choke' cables, and see if you might have gotten them switched at the carb.
If there is no problem there, a full carb adjustment/synchronization is most likely required.
There is a vertical web at the front of the carb, and it has numbers etched into the metal like : 64/32/325, I don't know how critical it is to have a matched set, like : 64/32/325 for the left, and then 64/32/326 for a right side carb.
Back to your original problem, check your ignition coil, and see if it is gray and black in color, this original OEM coil has gotten the name 'crack-o-matic' coil, and is quite prone to failure.
Check the primary winding resistance, it should be around 1.5 ohms, the secondary windings should be around 11-13,000 ohms.
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If both idle mixture screws aren't adjusted first, then you're going to be 'pushing a rope' as we say.
One other item - you DID adjust the valve clearances to somewhere around .004/.008 or .005/.010
intake/exhaust on both sides, correct ?
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Haven't touched the valves, as they were adjusted about 2 months (only about 200 miles) ago.
If both idle mixture screws aren't adjusted first, then you're going to be 'pushing a rope' as we say.
One other item - you DID adjust the valve clearances to somewhere around .004/.008 or .005/.010
intake/exhaust on both sides, correct ?
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...Back to your original problem, check your ignition coil, and see if it is gray and black in color, this original OEM coil has gotten the name 'crack-o-matic' coil, and is quite prone to failure...
A big 10-4 on this one! I had inspected my OEM black/gray coil and saw no cracks. Unfortunately, I did not inspect the ends of the coil. Bingo! Small, almost concentric, circular cracks. Dyna coil fix.
It's not necessary to remove the coil for an inspection. I just dusted off the unit and used a small inspection mirror with a mini-mag light. Cured my engine stumble, plug mis-fire, bucking and snortin' BMW.
Though it could be something else... :-/
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Shame on you, montmil. You didn't repost your photo to show him!
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOrigCoil01.jpg&hash=a447270ec5268e3d44ba4a6c971f625f7143d9b3) (http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1212783045/0#0)
click for the original posting
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Shame on you, montmil. You didn't repost your photo to show him!
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOrigCoil01.jpg&hash=a447270ec5268e3d44ba4a6c971f625f7143d9b3) (http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1212783045/0#0)
click for the original posting
My bad. ;D
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Shame on you, montmil. You didn't repost your photo to show him!
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOrigCoil01.jpg&hash=a447270ec5268e3d44ba4a6c971f625f7143d9b3) (http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1212783045/0#0)
click for the original posting
Well, the crack in it isn't circular like the one in the picture, but it runs on the bottom from front to back...!!!
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Get thee to Rick Jones and Motorrad Elektrik pronto. The best products and service. Dyna coil is the bomb.
http://www.motoelekt.com/index.html
Monte
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Get thee to Rick Jones and Motorrad Elektrik pronto. The best products and service. Dyna coil is the bomb.
http://www.motoelekt.com/index.html
Monte
Thanks for the link...sent him an email...!
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Okay...got the new Dyna Coil. I have a question about routing of the rear spark plug wire (from the coil). It pretty much directly hits the wire bundle coming out of the top of the engine.
Those who have the Dyna Coil, what did you do to address this? I can cram the plug wire in there, but it certainly isn't a comfortable fit.
Thoughts?
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Okay...got the new Dyna Coil. I have a question about routing of the rear spark plug wire (from the coil). It pretty much directly hits the wire bundle coming out of the top of the engine.
Those who have the Dyna Coil, what did you do to address this? I can cram the plug wire in there, but it certainly isn't a comfortable fit.
Thoughts?
Photos of my Dyna installation. Hope one may assist you. I did not have an interference problem with the install on my R65. Do you have the Dyna and its bracket positioned as in the photos?
BTW, that nasty odd ball wiring and wire tap junk is from a fairing install from a PO. It's long gone now!
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FDyna01.jpg&hash=39bb5a2ec402f1260e47ddc3d16414829f2a73cf)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FDyna02.jpg&hash=4b03865120f17e4695d05d85b6345b1e6b23bd1a)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FWiring02.jpg&hash=53f6181377572b7e937802130e46e0a29129a90d)
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??
I'm not sure of the issue you're talking about - you have the dyno coil mounted on your bike something like this, right ?
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi159.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft138%2Fnhmaf%2FCoilReplacement02.jpg&hash=830a5ab89388b1cf6e57aff9c1694f0783d03045)
In the photo, the "dangling" bit is the ICU or ICM (Ignition control unit or module). I've got room to run the plug wires to the left or right cylinder either just behind or just ahead of the wires that go into the ICU. It doesn't matter if you put the left cylinder plug lead into the "front" or "back" position on the coil - both plugs get a spark at the same time (wasted spark ignition system), so you can do whatever works best for plug wire routing.
while you are in there, if it hasn't been done for a few years, it would also be wise to unbolt the ICU from its aluminum alloy heatsink (you might have to tap or pry them apart GENTLY if it has been a REALLY long time) and clean the mating surfaces with some emery cloth - you want clean shiny metal without deep scratches. Apply a thin schmear of heatsink paste (can get at Radio Shack or other electronics hobby shops) to the metal back of the ICU and bolt it back to its heatsink and back onto the bracket on the frame.
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Okay...got the new Dyna Coil. I have a question about routing of the rear spark plug wire (from the coil). It pretty much directly hits the wire bundle coming out of the top of the engine.
Those who have the Dyna Coil, what did you do to address this? I can cram the plug wire in there, but it certainly isn't a comfortable fit.
Thoughts?
Photos of my Dyna installation. Hope one may assist you. I did not have an interference problem with the install on my R65. Do you have the Dyna and its bracket positioned as in the photos?
BTW, that nasty odd ball wiring and wire tap junk is from a fairing install from a PO. It's long gone now!
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FDyna01.jpg&hash=39bb5a2ec402f1260e47ddc3d16414829f2a73cf)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FDyna02.jpg&hash=4b03865120f17e4695d05d85b6345b1e6b23bd1a)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FWiring02.jpg&hash=53f6181377572b7e937802130e46e0a29129a90d)
Thanks for the pictures...my bracket doesn't allow me to mount it that way. It's either up or down (at a slight angle), and up won't work at all. I wonder if I got the wrong bracket...???
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??
I'm not sure of the issue you're talking about - you have the dyno coil mounted on your bike something like this, right ?
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi159.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft138%2Fnhmaf%2FCoilReplacement02.jpg&hash=830a5ab89388b1cf6e57aff9c1694f0783d03045)
In the photo, the "dangling" bit is the ICU or ICM (Ignition control unit or module). I've got room to run the plug wires to the left or right cylinder either just behind or just ahead of the wires that go into the ICU. It doesn't matter if you put the left cylinder plug lead into the "front" or "back" position on the coil - both plugs get a spark at the same time (wasted spark ignition system), so you can do whatever works best for plug wire routing.
while you are in there, if it hasn't been done for a few years, it would also be wise to unbolt the ICU from its aluminum alloy heatsink (you might have to tap or pry them apart GENTLY if it has been a REALLY long time) and clean the mating surfaces with some emery cloth - you want clean shiny metal without deep scratches. Apply a thin schmear of heatsink paste (can get at Radio Shack or other electronics hobby shops) to the metal back of the ICU and bolt it back to its heatsink and back onto the bracket on the frame.
My coil can't mount that way, the bracket that came with it allows me to only mount it up or down (the bracket)...I'm thinking I have the wrong bracket...
I'll try and get pics tonight...
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Hmm, if your bike is an 84 model I am pretty sure that this is the only way that it can go, and you may indeed have a wrong bracket.
If you bought it from Rick at motorrad elektrik I am sure that he will make it right - and be embarrassed. If you got the wrong bracket, maybe
you might also not have the right ("brown") coil ??? Post pics when you can !
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Hmm, if your bike is an 84 model I am pretty sure that this is the only way that it can go, and you may indeed have a wrong bracket.
If you bought it from Rick at motorrad elektrik I am sure that he will make it right - and be embarrassed. If you got the wrong bracket, maybe
you might also not have the right ("brown") coil ??? Post pics when you can !
Yep... could be the incorrect bracket as us Dyna riders have all had a simple install. Give Rick a call and he will quickly get it sorted out for you. Don't force the issue with the current install. Call Rick.
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Or, check this thread. I hacked up the old coil, combined it with some bits I had laying around, and made a bracket that sorta fit...
http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1163435236