The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
General Category => Totally Off-Topic Discussions, Rants, Tire & Oil Threads, Etc. => Topic started by: montmil on June 12, 2009, 03:08:08 PM
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Remember when John Carson hosted the Tonight Show? Way back...
During one of his opening monologues, he joked that there was a toilet paper shortage in the USofA. Next day, store shelves began emptying of the important papers. This gig was pretty much before the internet and email wiped out ball point pen sales so you know his viewership was big.
So. Some fool blogs that Obama is gonna confiscate my guns and halt production of ammo. Next thing you know, stores are short on bullet stocks. Urban legend material, IMHO.
I've been to several sporting goods stores and they all have my personal caliber/s. Even Wally World. I'm buying. Don't want to come up short. A fella can never have too fast a motorcycle, too young a wife or too much ammunition!
Monte
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Too true .......so many trains so little time
Have you thought about loading your own?thats what we have to do for pistols black powder better than napalm in the morning
Boom Boom Lou
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A fella can never have too fast a motorcycle, too young a wife or too much ammunition!
You forgot about the whiskey, Monte! And what about more money?
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If you don't have any guns, you don't need to worry about the supply of ammunition.
And is your "stuff" really worth the life or well being of another human?
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...And is your "stuff" really worth the life or well being of another human?
Nope, my stuff will never ever be worth a life. In fact, shooting someone who is trying to steal your motorcycle, etc., will likely get you sued and possibly incarcerated. The rights to personal carry requires us to know and understand the multiple laws as to when deadly force can be justified. And also when it cannot.
However, shooting someone who has broken into your "castle" and is bent on doing harm to you or a family member, that's an entirely different scenario.
Unfortunately, home invasions are on the rise as is other forms of violent crime. Just like my protective riding gear, better to have it and not need it than... well, we all know the rest. Perhaps some of our English R65.dot members can provide a viewpoint from a disarmed nation's perspective.
Nothing trumps the Constitution of the United Sates of America and its Amendments. I still respect the opinions of others. That's what it's all about.
Monte
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You have to know when, and when not to discharge a weapon, that's what gets a lot of good intentioned people behind bars .
I personally learned how to handle and fire a firearm, before I learned to ride a bicycle .
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...I personally learned how to handle and fire a firearm, before I learned to ride a bicycle.
Bet you grew up on a ranch.
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No, my father was an avid hunter, he grew up in central Arkansas, and I had 2 uncles that were 'professional poachers' .
I grew up in a southwest suburb of Chicago (Burbank).
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You.re never out of ammo with a Dillon RL550! ;D
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A wise man one said "Send lawyers, guns and money" No mention of ammo, I suppose he rolled his own.
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I roll my own ammo, at least for some of the calibers that I hunt & target shoot with - but this ammo madness has tanked even that as an option to a large extent. I've get enough powder and bullets to last me a while, and I can generally get at least 6-8 reloadings from a cartridge case, but the main problem is PRIMERs! No primer, no bang, and I can't find any round here for my 45 Colt and 357 Mag, and can barely find any (and not my preferred brand either) for my 45/70 and other large rifles.
It is just plain chicken little syndrome, but it has raised total havoc with supply and demand.
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Dillon 550.
9mm/45acp/223; Lots of raw materials on hand at any given time. My Nighthawk customs and LWRC eat the stuff up. In the winter I shoot indoor 3x/month; in summer it's cycle time.
NO SHORTAGE HERE.
In fact, surplus 8-)
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Local Wally World looked like the locusts had come through their ammo area last week. Stopped by to pick up some .25 cal that has been in short supply recently (no call for it I guess). My target shooting friend knew I was having a hard time finding it and called me from the store to tell me that it was almost the only thing on their shelves. Guy in front of me in line at the register had eight boxes of 9MM Luger... He must have been looking forward to a lotta plinking this weekend.
Have I mentioned our town law requiring home owners to own a firearm?
Clearly unenforceable, but what a peaceable community. Plenty of other more traditionally viewpointed targets for crime in the area.
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That's a great ordinance. Home invaders are usually cowards and would probably ply their trade somewhere else where the possibility of confronting an armed homeowner would be less.
It would be nice to someday live in a world where offensive/defensive weapons were not necessary but I fear this will never be the case unless a "criminal/lowlife gene" could be isolated and bred out of future generations... Then I could just enjoy punching holes in paper and cans!
Several years back I worked a couple of blocks away from a very nice indoor range and a couple of us would usually spend our lunch hours there blowing off at least a box. After I started casting my own bullets I could shoot my .45 ACP Gold Cup cheaper than I could a .22 rimfire!
I guess I need to check out the primer situation around here. I usually buy several cases at a time and it's been quite a while since I've actually bought any. I like Federal Bench Rest primers in my rifle cartridges and usually use CCI in my pistol rounds.
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Haven't we been down this road before?
<Sticking his head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist>
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It just takes one ''Stupid Yanks'' post in a gun thread to keep it going for 4 more pages.They sure use a lot of ammo in their discussions,but never seem to get a result....because another gun thread pops up somewhere else!
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I allow politically sensitive discussions in this little community because I feel it's good for everybody to share attitudes, opinions, etc. BUT, if somebody gets nasty or mean-spirited they are likely to be evicted.
We've tried to keep this a civil and pleasant place to hang out and I intend to keep it that way.
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Unfortunately, home invasions are on the rise as is other forms of violent crime. Just like my protective riding gear, better to have it and not need it than... well, we all know the rest. Perhaps some of our English R65.dot members can provide a viewpoint from a disarmed nation's perspective.
Monte
[/quote]Ok here goes ....the gun laws in the UK are so tight they squeek but as usual when you outlaw guns only outlaws will have them,
Ive just put in for my Co-terminus Licence this is a combined firearms and shotgun licence.To get any firearms licence you must be a member of an aproved club to get that you must be vetted serve a 3 month probationary period then be proposed seconded and voted in as a member.at that point you can apply for a firearms cert that takes up to another 3 months.You will require 3 refferances for the police and undergo strict CRB check.
You can apply for various calibers of pistol(muzzle loaders only)and rifles (any type cartridge or ML) you are restricted to 6 guns in yorkshire but it varies in differant police areas that could be 4 pistols and 2 rifles ect ect you are restricted to how much ammo you can buy at one time and how much you can store.
There are no restrictions on how many shotguns you own or how much ammo you want for them(how stupid is that) you can buy loading gear primers and powder once you have your licence so if you have a marlin 44/40 on your ticket you can load away at your lesure with what is effectively a pistol round(how stupid is that). the bottom line is that if you want to legaly own guns in the uk you can but you will have to jump through a few hoops to do so.
The biggest problem is we have illegal guns flooding in from Eastern Europe that gang bangers can pick up for about a hundered bucks untill they get a lid on that no one is safe at least we who hold guns legaly are vetted and trained.
Lou
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A good review, Lou. Gracias. Monte
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Lou, it's good to get the "skinny" from folks whose culture is quite a bit different from our in some areas. I couldn't even imagine having to jump through all of the bureaucratic hoops you're required to negotiate. I'm glad our founding fathers realized the wisdom of having a population that could take care of itself, as well as help defend the nation if things got in a bad way.
I remember looking at advertisement reprints from the WWII era where a call went out on this side of the pond to donate firearms to the British citizens for homeland defense. I got the feeling that this was necessary because the citizenry was not well armed due to regulations and such.
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As with most things in life, an inanimate object is not the problem, the problem is, that you cannot effectively, or efficiently regulate stupid brain dead people .
But I have noticed that, at least with my observations, that gun ownership amongst motorcycle riders is significantly higher than the general population .
This forum, for the most part, is pretty much free from any real serious heated political discussions, it pretty much stays true to a technical exchange site, as compared to a lot of forums out there, so lets keep this one on the civilized side .
Everybody has their own opinions, until you have a good understanding of the differences between the various countries and cultures represented here at R65.org, sometimes, it may be best to refrain from making postings, if they are less than constructive .
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+1, Justin! The charm of this forum is its civility, as opposed to the fora of certain other clubs and commercial endeavors catering to our ridership.
There are three topics that are inherently incendiary on a site, requiring a certain amount of restraint (even to the point of self-censorship), to wit (in no particular order): religion, politics, and guns. When an issue combines any two of the three, it becomes potentially explosive. And unfortunately, all three become intertwined occasionally here in the US (usually near election time).
My personal bias: I have a few firearms collecting dust in a file cabinet and closet. Most are antiques and oddities ranging from a Bisley in .45 Long Colt, an unusual Colt Army Special .38 (not valuable, but interesting because has a weird law enforcement stamp and no known history), and a couple .25 autos (one an Austrian OWA, the other a Colt in its original box). I don't use them, nor would I likely do so, but I wouldn't want to lose them because they were in my family.
I've read and thought about this issue, and it occurs to me that there likely are historical and sociological factors that go far toward explaining the attitude of many Americans toward guns, likely pre-dating the founding of the United States. (My own ancestry includes a number of two ethnicities that seem to be in the forefront of the ammunition controversy; knowing their origin leads to some SWAGs on my part regarding the cause(s) of this phenomenon.)
I have a retired friend who, I suspect, has at his mountaintop home a supply of small arms ammunition that would approximate the basic load of an infantry rifle company. ::)
Enough said. As for the current ammunition brouhaha, I think the reaction is considerably stronger than the magnitude of the threat. Of course, there are political and economic interests that stand to benefit from the maximum amount of "Chicken Little" hysteria.
Of course, I might be wrong. ;)
John
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Well put by Bob Roller.....think before you type!!!
Here is an extract from my gun clubs constitution
Quote......The object of the club is to encourage skill in pistol and rifle shooting by providing instruction and practice in the use of firearms to any of Her Majesty,s subjects that they be better fitted to serve there country should they be required to defend the realm in times of peril.....end quote
We take our right to bear arms seriously and will fight to keep them
Lou
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I allow politically sensitive discussions in this little community because I feel it's good for everybody to share attitudes, opinions, etc. BUT, if somebody gets nasty or mean-spirited they are likely to be evicted.
We've tried to keep this a civil and pleasant place to hang out and I intend to keep it that way.
Was that aimed at me?..? Just saying that Yanks are easy to wind up...lack of a sense of humour.If you are sensitive,it's not my problem...you own that one.
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As another UK resident I have a different point of view and I do not come on to an BMW R65 site to read about guns.
I have so far refrained from commenting on this thread, as I have commented before on others.
But since I feel that as there are two sides to every arguement, I will stand up and say to all that I am opposed to general and unrestricted gun ownership. A well run gun club with sensible rules and safe practices is another matter entirely.
On the subject of different types of firearms. A pistol is designed for one function - as a close quarter weapon with which to kill people - it has no other purpose. With the added benefit that they can be easily hidden. Likewise a machine gun is a long range weapon designed to kill people. That is why they are restricted in the UK. A rifle or shotgun can be used for a hunting, which is why the restrictions are less draconian, but still present. And there lies the difference.
Any criminal that is carrying a pistol - and by that very act of carrying a pistol, they are a criminal in the UK, will have to answer to the law. And they are very likely to be shot dead by the police when they catch up with them. Because they will only ask nicely once.
Lucky Lou, has a different point of view. Perhaps he needs to see a person with a bullet hole in them for real?
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
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Steve, that's my point entirely regarding sensitive subject areas and a culture's history shaping its present.
<< A pistol is designed for one function - as a close quarter weapon with which to kill people - it has no other purpose. >>
Hmmm. I can recall my grandmother shooting several snakes with the Bisley on different occasions when we lived in the country. Granny was an exceptionally good pistol shot, being able to hit a snake-size target at 50 feet, as I recall. (I was never nearly as skilled, nor am I likely to make the effort to become so.)
As a matter of interest (mine, at least): Are you aware that Colt Firearms named the Bisley in honor of the international pistol competition held at that location in the UK?
I'll state for the record that there are many things about US gun laws that I don't like. The same thing applies to driving; it's easier, and far less expensive, to become licensed to drive a cage in the US than in nearly any country in Europe. (The various states seem to have slightly sticter requirements for motorcycles; go figure.) Unfortunately, I don't foresee any attitudinal changes here in either area in the near future.
Cheers,
John
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That is why I said
"A well run gun club with sensible rules and safe practices is another matter entirely."
I have no problems with my neighbours, but it would scare to sh*t out of me if I knew that one or two of them, in particular, owned guns.
Same goes for cars and motorcycles. Some people should just not be allowed to be able to drive them, for everyone's peice of mind.
A little inconvenience for those that must dabble, is the price that has to be paid.
As for granny, it still does not change the fact that a pistol was designed to kill people. She was just mis-using it ;)
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It just takes one ''Stupid Yanks'' post in a gun thread
I'm sorry, motu, if I didn't realize this comment was Brit slang for getting "wound up". I think you'd better quit while you're still ahead...
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As far as firearm lisences in our country is concerned - it became extremely difficult to get any firearm lisence - our goverment"s goal is to make this a "gun free" country.
While we do experience the highest crime rate in the world at the moment, many local citizens do get overwhemed by thugs, and killed with their own weapons. So firearms often ended up in the wrong hands, causing more deaths of innocent citizens. And this obvously is the reason why our goverment is trying their best to get rid of all firearms in private hands.
The other side of the coin obviously is that nobody is prepared to be killed like sitting ducks by these thugs - and many of our citizens are extremely unhappy about our goverments policy in this regard.
My personal view is that all law obeying citizens in our country should be allowed to have at least one firearm, for personal and family protection.
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Bisley is the premier club for the UK several of my freinds have shot there in competitions i hope to get there myself oneday.
Am i right in thinking the "colt bisley" is basicaly a cattleman 5.1/2
i think Motu got the benifit of the doubt with that one certanly not a term ive come across or would have used.
Lou
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I am not so well versed in old Colts, but the Bisley models have a different type of grip frame (longer & more 'vertical') than the standard "plow-handle" models - this was supposedly a key factor to being able to fire more accurately. I do not have the $$ to own any old classic Colts, but the Sturm-Ruger versions follow this same differentiation. Not sure about the SA Colts, but the later Ruger Bisley models have unfluted cylinders with special "Bisley" engraving on them, too.
There is a collector-shop not too far from me that specializes in many of the old Colt single actions from estate sales. They've had some beautiful pieces of rare workmanship for sale, but at prices about double that of a very well maintained R65, I don't think that I'll be doing more than "window shopping" there for quite some time, unless I win some multi-million $$ lottery!
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[Justin, if you want to banish this, I can PM Lou.JT]
From Lucky_Lou: <<Am i right in thinking the "colt bisley" is basicaly a cattleman 5.1/2>>
From what I gather, the Cattleman 5.5 is a modern replica based on the Colt Peacemaker. (Something makes me think that Colt doesn't manufacture it.)
Colt manufactured about 45,000 Bisleys between 1894 and 1915. Interpolating serial numbers of Bisleys advertised for sale, I think mine was manufactured in 1904. Bisleys were available in several calibers (some now extinct) from .32-20 to .45 Long Colt, and three barrel lengths (4.5, 5.5, and 7.5"—mine is 7.5"). As the name suggestss, the Bisley was designed as a target pistol. Thus, it's quite different from the Peacemaker, and similar to the Single Action Army.
From the cylinder forward, the Bisley closely resembles the SAA, but the rear of the frame is totally different, with a vertical ("humpback") grip. Also, the hammer is a different shape, with a low thumb fork, giving the piece an asymmetrical appearance. It had a relatively high blade front sight. (Someone replaced the original front sight on mine with a Marble blade sight, so I can't give a good description.)
I keep intending to shell out the three-digit fee to Colt to research the serial number and issue me a letter giving the date, destination, and purchaser's identity when the factory initially shipped the Bisley. I'm pretty certain my family did not acquire it new, because it had belonged to my grandmother's brother, who left the Shenandoah Valley hurriedly about 1912. (Supposedly he got a girl pregnant, and her father & brothers threatened to kill him.) I was told that he worked as a cowboy in Montana, and there was an unconfirmed tale that he later went with Pershing into Mexico in 1916, chasing Pancho Villa. (Didn't everyone? ;) ) He picked up the Bisley somewhere in his travels, and gave it to my grandmother sometime later. [Sigh] Guess I'll never know the full story.
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I think you'd better quit while you're still ahead...
I've got nothing to quit about....unless you think I'm saying things I'm not.As you can see,gun threads just take off by themselves - people from other cultures find it very strange....kinda funny and a bit scary.It's not a nice window into your culture.
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I guess you don't understand how making references to "stupid yanks" just might irritate some folks. Case closed, topic closed and locked...