The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
General Category => Totally Off-Topic Discussions, Rants, Tire & Oil Threads, Etc. => Topic started by: SCJJR65 on April 16, 2007, 11:56:36 AM
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Just heard the awful news from Virginia Tech this morning. At least 22 dead (including the shooter)! Hard to believe this kind of thing could happen. Makes me scared to even have a child in school! :(
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The toll's now up to 31 and rising, including the shooter, making it the single largest shooting incident in US history.
And, considering it spread out over 2 hours and buildings 1/2 mile apart, it's even more staggering...
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I'll bet this has an impact on the future of campus security at every school and college in the whole damn country....
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I have a neice and a nephew in college and it makes you stop and think about all the schools in the country. What has happened to us? It is unbelievable. Never mind fearing terrorist from abroad when this kind of stuff is happening.
I'm afraid the more it happens, the more it will continue to happen. Media coverage just puts these kind of actions into minds that shouldn't be exposed... :(
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I stopped by to see The Kid this afternoon, as she's preparing to move off campus and into her first apartment with 2 other girls. She goes to the same U that I did, 30 years ago, and although the campus still looks amazingly similar, the atmosphere is completely different.
These kids wouldn't dream of taking off like we used to, walking around late at night, crashing others' keg parties, etc, etc.: although they have fun, there's such a fear & distrust of strangers, and of the unknown out there these days. This isn't just among the young women, either.
And, perhaps rightfully so, unfortunately.
It is still very sad, though, and such a waste...... :'(
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My sympathy's go out to the poor family's who've lost their kids, they must be absolutely devastated.
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How do you guys feel about the coverage in the media? Over here (UK), there is a big debate going on as to whether or not it was/is right to show the tapes that the guy made. Some people think that the media have turned him into a notorious celebrity in exactly the way he was wanting..others think that they have the right to see the footage because it helps to understand what was going on in his head.
At the moment, I think that if one of my kids had been killed, I would not want to see his nastiness all over the screens. Also, it seems like he bought his guns in a store. Maybe guns shouldn't be sold in stores? I'm not sure that would have made such a difference to this guy.........very sad...
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Where he bought the weapon is irrelevant, as well as what the weapon was. Someone as twisted as this would have constructed a pipe-bomb, drove their car through a large group at high speed, or whittled a machette out of something if they had made up their mind to go on a rampage. Then again, how far would the little creep have gotten if there had been some armed SANE person close at hand at the beginning of this tragedy who could have taken him out?
The debate between media pundits on this side of the pond is pretty much the same. To show, or not to show, that is the question... I pretty much agree that the people directly affected have found/would find the airing pretty distasteful and I would imagine I would as well were I in their shoes. But, this is one of the hazards of a free press in that it IS news and I suppose people have a right to see it if they are so inclined. At least the various media haven't played it to death due to their realization it really is an extremely touchy subject. At least the little bastard saved the taxpayers the expense of housing and feeding him for the rest of his natural life, as well as a virtual nose-thumbing to survivors, after he would surely have copped an insanity plea. Mustn't execute crazy people, you know, even if it would never be safe to turn them loose...
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Well said, Justin.
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I agree with the fellows above, too. Unfortunately the news media is making a bigger fuss of
the sick, twisted killer than his unfortunate victims, and I think that the airing of the video and
pictures is only making things more painful for the victim's families, and likely to provoke
another sick, glory-seeking, twisted individual into doing something similar. The media
over here seem to relish the opportunity to stir up more proverbial hornet's nests, and many of
us (though apparently not enough of us) are quite sick of it.
So, now we apparently have some sort of incident in the Johnson Space center..
And this week, there were at least (3) (fortunately turned out to be hoax) bomb threats in
schools in my state, most likely done by the typical teenage malcontents seeking thrills or a day
out of school... when will we learn not to glorify the violent, the controversial, the profane/obscene,
and get back to honesty, keeping your word, and helping your friends ? We are definitely
losing our way, as a society, I think.
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I like the approach my local classic rock radio station uses: they won't mention the name of John Lennon's killer, because he deserves nothing more than to be forgotten. He's a nobody, and this guy back east is the same.
I wonder how it happened, on the hijacked flight that crashed into a PA field rather than it's intended target, that unarmed passengers got up the courage or motivation or what ever, to attack and defeat armed hijackers and, while not saving the plane, at least preventing their murderers from achieving their goals. And I wonder how it could have happened at the college: what has to be present? Not just an armed citizen like Justin correctly pointed out, but the will to attack in the face of overwhelming odds to prevent further evil. I think I'M willing to do it, but I can't know because I've never been there. It's sad that people can be so defenseless.
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We have had several generations of coddling security in this country. We get soft.
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... And then something horrible like this shooting happens to cause a swift knee-jerk reaction in the other direction... :(
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I'm kind of watching the whole thing from afar with a certain amount of incredulity, if not confusion. I am from a country that had fairly strict gun laws, but after the Port Arthur massacre (we have had only one, not counting the Aboriginal massacres of our past history) in Tasmania just over ten years ago, instigated without any real opposition, even tighter gun laws. This included a nationwide moratorium on the surrendering of unlicensed weapons, and compulsory surrendering of automatic and semi automatic weapons. Licensing, registration and regulation of existing guns and gun owners were also toughened.
Ok, I know it's not perfect, and there will be illegal gun ownership out there by loonies, but we stand by our record on massacres. Make gun ownership difficult, and if it saves at least one life, isn't it worth it?? I read above (and elsewhere) that if everyone has a gun, the massacre perpetrator would be taken out before he manages to kill anyone else!!! Sorry, are we talking running gun battles by people taking the law into their own hands and deciding who is to be shot, what if someone else comes in and then decides to pop off the person shooting the loon?? Where the heck does it all end?? Wild west again???
I think the US has to do a major rethink on gun laws and the second amendment, even if it means prising the gun from the dead hands of Charlton Heston, as I'm sure innocent bystanders have rights as well. Heck, you don't have anymore Redcoats or Redskins to fight any more do you?
Hope I didn't offend anyone with this, I didn't intend to, but like I said, as an outsider I'm really confused.
Bill........................;-(
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No , we are not fighting the British anymore, by I extend a welcome to you to the southwestern US for a little eye opening first hand experience on rampant drug and illegal alien smuggling. Where any and all human life is expendable! I refuse to ride or drive without being 'properly' armed ( 9 mm hand gun and or 12 gauge shotgun). It is legal in Arizona to carry an unconcealed weapon ( except for a few restricted venues), and until it is illegal, I will always be ready to defend myself.
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airhead, we've had guns around here for two hundred years. These things have been going on for what, 25 years? It's more reasonable to ask what ELSE is different in that time, than to point at the presence of weapons. Before anybody mentions high capacity semiautomatic weapons, I hasten to add that the Colt 1911 has been around since, uh, well a long time ago.
For some reason now some people think it's OK to go around killing other people at random. 40 years ago people didn't think that.
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I won't get into a gun control debate due to the fact that 99.99% of rabid anti-gunners will not listen to reason or believe statistics that haven't been cooked by "The Brady Bunch" so all it does is raise my blood pressure. I'll get my chuckle when I see the piece on the news about them being tied up with duct tape while a couple of scumbags make off with all of their goodies. AND the scumbags then get caught by an 83 year old Granny down the block who pops a cap on one of them and holds the other 'til the fuzz gets there! I heard about an octogenarian a few days ago who caught some creeps stealing something from her property/house, they told her that if she'd get out of their way they would just leave. She didn't buy off on that idea so she steadied her aim (using her walker) and shot their tires out! Give 'em hell, grann!
I truly believe that there is a certain percentage of people that are either, deranged, 100% self-centered, or just plain bad. Society used to keep the brakes on these butt-heads by not putting up with their bull$hit. But, it is to the point, now, that everything always has to be blamed on some outside action/force/reason and too many people in positions of power refuse to admit that there are just plain BAD people in the world. We don't stigmatize aberrant behavior the way we used to, instead the pointy-heads try to come up with ludicrous reasons why the rest of us are at fault for some maggot turning bad because he was misunderstood, or something. I truly believe we are seeing (at least partially) the results of "spare the rod, spoil the child" and it'll eventually be our downfall.
Damn, this'll probably keep me awake half the night...
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Justin -
I also read that story - it was a former Miss America (1944) who held the robbers
at bay with her .38 ! I've known a few grannies up here with similar
no-nonsense attitudes that can look after themselves pretty well.
Don't get all worked up on this - one of the great things about this country is that
we all often don't all agree on anything, but we generally seem to find a good middle ground
most of the time. History has proven time and again that a democracy like ours
is often slow and inefficient, but beats the heck out of most any alternatives !
I wouldn't want to live in any other place.
So, take a few deep breaths. Hey, I bought a nice Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt last month for
punching paper and hunting - do you happen to have any favorite load recipes you're willing
to share ? You can PM me if you like.
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I won't get into a gun control debate due to the fact that 99.99% of rabid anti-gunners will not listen to reason or believe statistics that haven't been cooked by "The Brady Bunch" so all it does is raise my blood pressure.
C'mon Justin, are we really any better? ;D
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I will at least listen to somebody who is on the opposite side of an issue IF they are persuasive enough and have REAL data to back up their conclusions...
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nhmaf, sorry, can't help you with the .45 long Colt, never got around to owning one of them but I would think .44 special loads would be similar. I'll see if I can find my .44 special loading notes
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Testify, Brother Justin!
That's why I've stayed out of this one too: my blood pressure's already high, and I kinda need to avoid having a stroke anytime soon. And in my nearly 51 years, I've never "converted" an anti-gunner, or been "saved" by one of them either. You're either "fer" or "agin" it.
So, let me just say that I call my Sig P228 "American Express", because I "don't leave home without it..."
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Amen on that...
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i cant imagine the school life my children face today. it is so different from when i was in, and it doesnt feel that long ago for me (dont ask my kids that)
i grew up all over mostly overseas, when my dad retired from usaf i was just starting high school. i had shoot alot of skeet and trap during the summers and came to love hunting. i would get up early go hunting before school, show up at school still in my camo! with a gun with ammo in the car trunk, and once in a while forget to remove my cleaning knife from my belt. the teachers would ask for it and tell me to pick it up at school. if my son did that today he would be going to jail till he was 21!
now i have spent enough time growing up in a military home and joining the military and serving in world conflicts using weapons for what they where meant to do kill people, i do have a hard time picking one up, and even harder time teaching my sons to hunt. will i teach them? yes.
the thing i am trying to say is once I have used a weapon in a time of combat it is hard to hold it in a time of relaxation again. i would never ask to take away that right of another even if i made it for myself.
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Jon, you just have to remind yourself, and make sure the young-un understands, that a weapon is just a tool. No more, no less and has no intent, neither evil or saintly. Most tools can be used for multiple purposes and care must be taken in their application as bad things can happen with any tool if misused. I guess this is the thing that anti-gunners fail, or refuse to acknowledge - the weapon didn't do anything, it was the loose nut behind the trigger that was to blame. If the creep didn't have a firearm there are a multitude of common every-day objects that can be used to maim and kill just as effectively. One only needs to look to Oklahoma City to remember what a few bags of fertilizer can accomplish.
We are living in some very sad times indeed and I'm forever grateful that I was lucky enough to get my two kids through school with minimum difficulty and in one piece. Their time was pretty rough compared to when I went to school and I have already told them that don't envy what lies ahead of them one bit. My first grandson came into the world a couple weeks ago and I already feel sorry for the little critter...
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It's not the Gun....
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg231%2Fhergrace%2FIMG_5897.jpg&hash=bd181d679dc1fe3f271bd34b65b4f5d1e9c55ab1)
It's the brain behind the gun that is dangerous.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg231%2Fhergrace%2FIMG_5896.jpg&hash=ab4dfc85c6bd88ef8b48db684078f68f792e5084)
In Dekalb county Georgia a few years ago, a man walked into an elementary school with a claw hammer and started hitting people. I suppose we should ban hammers. All the Georgia gunlaws prevented was to make sure there would not be a law abiding armed person to shoot this deranged man before he seriously hurt three or four people (including children).
Liberals are such hippocrits. They, on one hand, want to take away our guns while their friends in Hollywood pump out the most violent crap the world has ever seen.
Why people would consider watching murder, torture and rape for the sake of "entertainment" is beyond me.
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That's interesting, when I was stationed at Hunter AAF, GA was the easiest place I'd seen to get a concealed carry permit. I went down, forked over $20 (I think) and 90 days later after a background check I had my little card - that was over 25 years ago.
But, more importantly, what is that gizmo!? It looks kinda familiar but I can't place it.
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The kind of violence I was bought up on!!
It's a Dalek (from the TV show 'Dr Who'), the evil invention of Davros, a crippled and deranged scientist who believed mass extermination with weapons was the only answer!!!!
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davross.clara.co.uk%2Fpersonal%2Fjpg%2Fdavros.jpg&hash=62ff89d780ed8abb37032538014835ff1c2795fc)
Bill...............;-)
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About all the media strangness I can stand if fell swoop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzrIGtTYPJ8
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Aha !
Another "Whovian" fan among us !!!
Hang onto that - is it cast iron ? Could be worth some $$ ...
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Sorry it is ceramic! My youngest son came up with the "brain"! ;D
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Oh yeah! Dr. Who. [smiley=clap.gif]
I'd never seen this show as I haven't had a TV much over my life until I had one for awhile about 8 years ago. Dr. Who would come on at 11:00 or 12:00 on Sunday night on the local Public TV channel. I was immediately sucked in and always had a hard time getting up on time on Monday morning. I did see quite a few episodes from different eras and I started understanding that the Doctor changed form over the years. They finally took it off the air, though. That was disappointing.
Bill, that is quite a strange (and yes, disturbing) ad. I've seen these chocolates, but only ones that were brought over from Germany as gifts. They can't sell them in this country - I guess because the toys inside are "dangerous" for small children. I think that ad is German. I'm curious about why the announcer is speaking in English.
I won't get into the gun control debate either. I'll just say that too many people with guns don't know how or when to use them. My father took me and my brother out target shooting with .22's, and I took a class on gun safety. I'm really glad I had that opportunity. But I still don't like guns and I don't like being around them. I went a different direction, eventually, and studied Aikido for about 5 years. What I learned there is to be aware of what is going on around me, to pay attention to my instincts and to not be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
If everyone had some good training of some sort, that would be good. That would mean that they were getting a good kind of attention, which is what we all need when we are young.
Enough said.
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side note: dr. who is back! yep i grew up on him also. ok back to our original scheduled show.
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Hi Melana,
The Kinder Egg has its own language! Somehow my children understand it (and think it is funny). 8-)
Dr Who - My wife downloads the new ones from England using Bittorrent(?). I haven't seen any of the new ones but I remember hiding behind a couch in Beaconsfield England in 1966 whenever the Cybermen were on the back and white screen! (second Doctor Patrick T.)