The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: BooG on July 11, 2008, 03:35:31 PM
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On trying to start, the bike had no turnover at all. All the lights were on. There was a faint clicking that sounded like it was from the starter motor. The "Gen"light was fading out as I pressed the starter switch. Switch appeared to be OK. Battery was charged up. I am thinking of taking out the starter to test. How do you get a tool in to undo those bolts that secure it?
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... There was a faint clicking that sounded like it was from the starter motor.
That faint clicking you hear might also be the starter relay. Remove the tank and press down on the starter relay with your finger. Hit the starter button and see if the engine doesn't turn over.
Check all connectivity before tearing into components. Do you have a manual with a wiring diagram and a DVOM? Check all the simple things before doing open heart surgery. ;)
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start with your battery and work your way into things. just had a similar problem and a brand new battery, load tested it and discovered that my problem was there.
[smiley=3stooges.gif]
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Get a hold of a VOM [volt ohm meter] they can be had very cheap & you dont need a $600 digital Fluke model. A nice $5 radio shack special will do. Measure the voltage across the battery terminals, should be 12.N volts at least. Now while measuring the battery voltage in the same way give the start button a nice push and read the voltage while trying to start. Post the result and we'll go from there!
rich
or if you are familiar with a load tester... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90636
[oops I see your in London...you don't have these stores bit there must be something like them]
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So..the battery was reading 12.7V after a charge up. I put it back in, and at the same time took off the starter relay and applied some WD40. As I fired her up, the voltage dropped to about 11.6V. Everything worked normally, and at idle, the reading was 11.7V, rising to 12.8V at about 3000rpm. Not sure about what happened there, but all seems fine at mo. Could have been the relay I guess.
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Boo, that voltage sounds kinda low at 3k. I think the system is at full output at around 3500 rpm and you should have at least 13.5 volts at that point. Anything else indicates a possible issue and your battery will most likely not be fully charged. Depending on mileage maybe your brushes are getting worn, maybe a diode or regulator going to sleep on ya?
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So..the battery was reading 12.7V after a charge up. I put it back in, and at the same time took off the starter relay and applied some WD40. As I fired her up, the voltage dropped to about 11.6V. Everything worked normally, and at idle, the reading was 11.7V, rising to 12.8V at about 3000rpm. Not sure about what happened there, but all seems fine at mo. Could have been the relay I guess.
Hey, Booger... Reread the posts but didn't see what year and model you're working with. But a couple points about the bike may be of assistance, reminder or interest to you.
The battery is responsible for powering the lights, ignition and any other loads you have powered up. The voltage drop is not unusual, per say, but could indicate an aging/failing battery.
The generator/alternator does not power the ignition, lights, etc. It's job is to detect battery voltage drop and send a charge to "top 'er up".
Also, you need to have about 2000 revs on the clock for the alternator to be able to do its thing. You may occasionally read about riders having voltage problems if they are stuck in slow moving traffic for extended periods. The GEN light may come on and/or flicker.
After cleaning relay plug-in connections, wire junctions, etc consider applying a bit of dilectric grease as a corrosion protection. WD40 will evaporate and you're right back to no protection. Also, check any and all grounds (earth) you can find including the battery's grounding cable.
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Thanks guys. Its an '82 R65.
I do alot of city riding, and London can be real slow at the best of times. My Gen light is always on at idle, and normally goes out just above. The battery itself is a make called "Landport"...never heard of them. Also, I was thinking that the charger is maybe not appropriate. It is not a dedicated Motorcycle charger. It is a 12V 4A RMS model. It says "Suitable for batteries of 24-50Ah". What does that bit refer to?
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Thanks guys. Its an '82 R65.
I do alot of city riding, and London can be real slow at the best of times. My Gen light is always on at idle, and normally goes out just above. The battery itself is a make called "Landport"...never heard of them. Also, I was thinking that the charger is maybe not appropriate. It is not a dedicated Motorcycle charger. It is a 12V 4A RMS model. It says "Suitable for batteries of 24-50Ah". What does that bit refer to?
12V 4A = 12 volt battery and will charge the battery at 4 amps maximum. It's good. You could leave it on overnight and not cook your battery. The charger doesn't know what he's hooked up too.
BTW, riding the Beemer, do you have to pay to enter central London as do the autos?
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Boo, the notice "Suitable for batteries of 24-50Ah" refers to the capacitry of the battery rated in Amp Hours. The bigger the AH number the more capacity. I believe a stock R65 battery is something a bit under 20 AH, 18 maybe? I use a Battery Tender, Jr. to top up our batteries as it is a "smart" charger and will only charge when needed then it cuts off and monitors until another shot of juice is needed.
If you do almost exclusively in-town riding you can get an adjustable voltage regulator and get a bit more juice at lower revs. The down-side to that approach is you could cook your battery on a long high-speed run unless you readjust the regulator first. In your case, it might be best to get a Battery Tender, wire in the BMW accessory jack and plug, and then just plug in the battery tender every evening. But, your output at 3000 rpm still seems a bit low to me unless you have a bunch of accessories running that suck juice...
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I agree with Justin regarding the low output at 3,000 rpms. Does the voltage rise after that if you continue to increase the revs? You should see almost 14 at some point. Mine maxes out at 14.2 with my new voltage regulator.
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Ok then..I'll make a more accurate reading. That 3000rpm one was done whilst one hand was holding the multimeter terminals to the battery, one hand was setting the revs, and cursing as the meter was sliding off the gas tank!! I might have to interest my girlfriend in the joys of voltage testing, bless her! I am rubbish with electrics, so I really appreciate the help from the forum, as always. My R65 does not have a garage to live in unfortunatley, so a trickle charge over night is impossible. Anything not chained, glued or welded down in the London Borough of Hackney tends to disappear overnight!
Luckily, bikers are exempt from the congestion charge in london.
Also, we don't have "Radio Shack" or "Harbour freight", but we do have "Maplins". I love it in Maplins!!
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I also had a problem keeping the battery charged on my '84 while doing a lot of low speed work. One thing to try (if legal where you ride) is to rewire the ignition switch so the bike can run with just the parking lights on rather than the main headlight. the other cure is to replace the alternator with an Omega or Enduralast 400 watt alternator.
You can also boost the regulator output voltage by installing a diode in the regulator grpund connection. this will fool the regulator into producing about .7 more volts at the battery.
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I also agree that voltage sounds a bit low - if you aren't up to at least 13.5 by 4000 RPM then it is time to inspect and clean
all the electrical connections and wires, If it still doesn't improve, it may be voltage regulator related or issues with the alternator
(dirty/worn brushes, cracked wire, etc). Most of the time, a diode failure on the diode board will prevent you from getting to 13V,
and depending on which diode failed, you may still see the GEN light faintly glowing. After spending the night on the charger, before you
turn the key on check the battery voltage and let us know what it is so we can be certain that your battery is up to snuff.
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Boo, somebody here (can't remember who) rigged a small solar panel onto the rear rack of their bike to keep the charge topped up during the day. I think last report was it was working fine. Something like that might help you a bit - if you park in the sunlight! ;)
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Good call on the solar panel. Might look up the thread and explore that one.
Latest test results show up ok. At 2000 rpm, the multi-meter is heading up from 12.8, and by 3000rpm it was 13.5 and still climbing. The voltage increases slowly but steadily, so if you took a few readings they would all be different, but increasing. I have one of those solid state voltage regulators in that are supposed to be better for slower traffic situations. Seems good to go at the moment. Should be able to turn my attention back to the speedo!
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At 13.5 v it is charging - slowly! My '81 R100 runs between 13.5 and 13.9 depending on ambient temperature - and that with a new rotor, brushes, and fixed solid-state regulator...
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Yeah, I may well look at that solar thread again..could be a good move.
Recent multi-meter readings are better. As revs slowly increase, so do the readings. It was up ti about 13.8 at 2500 and still rising. The voltage increase is slow but steady. I have one of those solid state voltage regulators, not the stock one....don't know if that makes any difference to readings.
All running well at the mo. Back to that pesky speedo then!
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I think I already posted?!?