The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
General Category => General Announcements => Topic started by: Andrew on January 25, 2010, 12:03:08 PM
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I've monitored the site for a few weeks and just joined, having bought a 1983 R65 two weeks ago on SF Craigslist for next to nothing. 80,000 miles, much loved early on but a beater/rider the past few years. Seller got into a front-ender against a curb that put a ding in the wheel and bent the forks. Already got replacement wheel and forks and will be sorting the bike as I fit it in between many Alfa Romeo projects. Enjoying working on it but I haven't ridden it yet!
I have two Wards/Riverside Benellis I'll be selling now that I have a "real" bike, and rode a Yamaha 100 Enduro and Honda CL 175 in my post-high school days. Not much adult bike experience. Looking forward to learning all about these bikes here.
Andrew
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Ouch, those bent forks look painful! Sounds like you're on the right track. Looks like the X-O pipe needs a bit of cleaning but nothing a couple of cans of carb cleaner can't fix. Welcome to the forum. We're getting all kind of new blood on here.
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Seller who crunched it kept the bike indoors, but he had it only for a couple years and I suspect its history before that was an SF parked-outside beater. Had a small Harley windshield (with brackets to move headlight down some) and Krauser bag setup plus Reynold rack, all of which I've already removed. Bike also had heated grips, grip wind protectors, aftermarket sidestand, alarm, a ton of stuff. I'm stripping it down to stock.
Front fender I pulled off in prep to remove the forks. Getting new shifter lever pivot bolt and needle bearing set from SF BMW tomorrow to install and improve the very sloppy gearchange. Will work through it. Step one is forks and front wheel, then I'll move on to improvements. Yes pipes don't look the greatest, and the underside of the bike is very grimy. Gunk time, and will change all fluids. I'm very experienced on cars (Alfa, BMW, VW, MG), not so much on bikes, but so far this isn't intimidating me.
Andrew
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Welcome.
I recommend you keep the heated grips. Once installed you will never think about them again, except how much you love them!
If you are hell-bent on removing them, and they are working, you might contact fellow R65 rider, Melena, as she is looking for some; and she is a fellow Californian, as well - up in Santa Rosa.
The Reynolds rack would do well on eBay. If you have the Reynolds saddlebag holders as well, well, they are rare as hen's teeth! The standard saddlebag mounts just don't do well with the Reynolds rack (I know...).
If you do advertise the rack - specify that it came from a '83, because the '79-'80s were slightly different.
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Welcome to the madhouse.....heated grips in California ????? your havin a laff
Lou
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Hey, Lou, it's freezing here! Why, it was just barely over 50 today. Brrr.
Andrew, you have TWO Wards Riversides? Didn't you learn after the first? I got a '67 350 in the mid 80s. It would shake your teeth out. It did tear the gas tank open at the front mount. I bought my first tube of Loctite Blue for that bike... After I glued most of the fasteners and the bike couldn't dissipate energy by loosening them, it shook the rear fender so badly that it fatigued and broke off while I was riding on the freeway. When I got home, I found that a) I now had a bobber, and b) it cost me $7 each for the replacement license plate, registration paper, month sticker and year sticker from the DMV. I have more stories about it, and I only owned that damned thing for about 3 months.
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Welcome Andrew,
Looks like another homeless, abused, stray of an R65, has found a good home !!!
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Good to have you with us, Andrew. Buy 'em cheap, fix 'em up and ride the heck outta them. What a deal!
Keep us photo-posted on your progress. And don't mind Yorkshireman Lucky Lou... he's been snowbound for way too long. We keep trying to get him back to Texas...
Monte
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Andrew,
List the stuff you are pulling off as some of it will be worth keeping.
I like a clean, basic bike myself, but I am also aware that some sensible mods will enhance the bikes value/useability and 'back to stock' is not necessarily the way to go.
For example a decent Surefoot or Brown sidestand is definately worth keeping as they are far better than the originals.
I am with Rob, be careful what you throw away. And some of it can be sold to put some cash back in your pocket.
Steve H
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Gday mate & welcome [smiley=bmw_smiley.gif]
Looks like you have got yourself a nice project, once you start pulling parts off to clean/replace you cant stop!!!
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Welcome to the forum. Lots of knowledge here in amongst the members. And a few loose screws amongst a few of us too.
Reading your intro and I'm thinking to myself "Wards Riverside ???" what the hell is that? dash off to good old google and i come back with this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgWcKe12oB4
Must say I have never heard the brand before, but it sounds like a brand that never left the US of A let alone make it to OZ.
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Wards Riverside were two- and four-stroke Benellis rebadged and sold through Montgomery Wards, a department store chain here in the US, mid 60s through early 70s. There is a devoted Yahoo group, and a major supplier of a huge amount of NOS parts in Pennsylvania (VintageCosmo). Sears Roebuck did the same with Gilera, sold as Allstate, their in-house store brand for mowers, small cars in the post-war era, etc. Fair number of Wards bikes around, including a lovely black/silver 250 cafe-style four-stroke that parks in front of my building here in SF a few days a month. Both mine are two-strokes, and yes, the 125 Cobra vibrated off the tool box cover the first good ride I took it on. Moves along good for a 125 though. 50cc Scooter I got running this weekend for the first time, but have not ridden it. Both headed for Craigslist if two friends don't buy them.
I won't throw anything away, other than the Harley windshield, which was completely broken. Grip wind protectors already sold to a fellow R65er here in Emeryville, and a guy's coming to look at the rack and side bag tonight. Side stand I will keep. Funny having two though, plus a center stand.
I'm an originalist, though not slavishly so. On my Alfa projects (I've had dozens and have six now) the first step is always to undo the bodges that previous owners have done so as to get the car working as intended. That'll be true here too. Plus deferred maintenance, which I see plenty of.
Andrew
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Hey, Lou, it's freezing here! Why, it was just barely over 50 today. Brrr.
Is it summer.....more snow forecast here someone have a word with Al Gore this global warming isnt cutting it for me,
Lou the eskimo
[smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]
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Further recollection having nothing to do with R65s: some very early Wards bikes/scooters were rebadged from Japan, though I forgot the maker. If you care enough, go to Wards_Riverside_Cycles group on yahoo.
Andrew
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Welcome aboard, Andrew.
Keep the pics and anecdotes coming.
From a clear and chilly "Hotlanta". 46 F / 8 C . Tonight is supposed to get down to 24 F / -4 C.
Think I might have to move further south if this is what Al Gore means by warming.
;D
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...Sears Roebuck did the same with Gilera, sold as Allstate, their in-house store brand for mowers, small cars in the post-war era, etc... Andrew
Not to overlook Sears' lovely Puch 125cc single and the Puch 250cc Twin -aka Twingle, as the cylinders shared a common combustion chamber- that carried the Allstate banner. Oh, and Sears' 50cc moped that I do not recall who provided but I cut my cycling teeth on the two-speeder. Also their Piaggio-built Vespa look-a-like; my Dad had one. I later rode a real Vespa GS in the early 60's.
The old Sears store on Ross Avenue in Dallas was often a family destination. I must have put several thousand miles on their display bikes parked adjacent the washing machines. Great days for a kid :)
Monte
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Not to overlook Sears' lovely Puch 125cc single and the Puch 250cc Twin -aka Twingle, as the cylinders shared a common combustion chamber- that carried the Allstate banner. Oh, and Sears' 50cc moped that I do not recall who provided but I cut my cycling teeth on the two-speeder. Also their Piaggio-built Vespa look-a-like; my Dad had one. I later rode a real Vespa GS in the early 60's.
And Montgomery Ward put its label in the late 50s on a Yamaha scoot that had a 4-cycle single about the size of a Cushman Road King (or Eagle—I forget which was smaller). I bought a new Wardaha with after-school earnings (mail order, express-shipped to the catalog order store) in high school & rode it hard until I t-boned a 4-wheeler that pulled out of a service station from behind a truck parked at the curb. It had a temperamental belt drive/centrifugal clutch transmission that needed considerable tinkering for optimum performance. My only complaint: the design was a really ugly— sloping, rounded rear cowl that made it look like a midget late-1940s Nash. Butt-ugly, painted red with a white longitudinal stripe on the top of the cowl. It was the only one in the city where I grew up, and I can't remember seeing more than one or two others anywhere, at any time.
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So you folks could go to a department store, pick up some new clothes, shoes, tv's, pillows, coffee table & A MOTORBIKE!!!
How did that work? like you stroll in walk up to the bike & roll it to the checkout? or did you have to order it & pick it up at another date?
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I used to be in the airforce and we did a couple of exercises at Clark Air Base in the Phillipines.
They had a PX there that was the military equivalent of K-Mart.
Everything shipped from the States, and with a US Government discount on everything (this was to compensate paying the serviceman a pittance.)
You could buy groceries, tv's, CD's, Barbecues, Cars.
For us Australians it was odd seeing what we considered to be a KMart with a brand new Mustang on the floor being advertised.
But then this was an Airforce base that had 13 restaurants, and 26 takeaways. Tenpin bowling alley, and about 6 different boozers.
All went under when Mt Pinatubo blew it's top in 1991
John
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Average annual temp here in Berkeley/SF is 55* F. Basically the same as the surrounding Pacific Ocean and SF Bay, which drives local weather. Been raining a good amount lately, as is typical in January. That'll dry up by March/April, then it won't rain again til November.
Got the new shifter bolt and roller cage yesterday, along with a $25 oil filter(!), from SF BMW. Pressed out the old cage and will press in the new today. Will take pics.
Andrew
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I'm a military brat (USAF) and bought a lot of things at the PX, but never a motorcycle. Sears sold Allstate cars too. Yes, you could buy pretty much anything. Sears sold house kits in the early part of the 20th Century.
My dad bought his/my 1959 MGA Twin Cam new in the UK when we were stationed there 1975-1960, and it was all handled through the US Navy Exchange. Picked it up at University Motors though.
Andrew
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There are less expensive sources for oil filters (Chicago BMW, for one). It sounds like you got the "kit". All I buy is a filter and a new big, white o-ring. I reuse my metal shim. I don't use the paper gasket.
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Yes, they sold me the "kit." In general I'm not crazy about buying at dealers of any kind, but I figure first time I should start off with the right thing, plus I was there for other items.
Andrew
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There are a few sources that offer the microfice for our bikes, online.
My favorite is RealOEM - http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do?vin=6380675&kind=P&arch=0
That link is set up for my bikes serial number. Just put your # in the field at the top, and have fun!
Some of the online dealers also have this, and you can order parts directly from the fiche.
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Thanks for the link.
Did the shifter bushing and bolt yesterday. Put the roller cage in the freezer for a bit, then used my Harbor Freight press to push it in place. Assembled, it's much better, though still has more slop than I'd expect. I'll look at the fiche to see if there's supposed to be a thin shim washer in there somewhere; my bike doesn't have one, and the bikebandit blowup of this assembly doesn't show one.
Here's pics of old and new. If someone wants the old bolt and bushing, I'm happy to mail for cost of shipping.
Andrew
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I'd like to take you up on your bolt 'n bushing offer, Andrew. I'll PM you my info. Thanks!
John
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If you haven't already done the oil filter & Oil change, be sure the large flat steel washer goes in before the big rubber "O" ring. They call the "O" ring the "$2000 'O' ring" when it's installed incorrectly. There are articles about it in several areas that you might want to search the forum about. Measuring depth of the housing lip to determine the number of shims and if you really need the paper gasket is also covered somewhere.
When I did my first oil change I asked my neighbor (who has a lot more recent BMW experience) if there was anything I should look for. He advised me to put it back the way it came apart. Yup, you guessed it, it had been installed wrong by the PO..... Big puddle of oil turned out to be cheaper than rebuilding the engine. I called him back and had him walk me through it "of course the washer goes in first, didn't I tell you that?" It's also a good idea to see if there is a small "O" ring lodged in the filter housing from previous filters. Pulled mine out with a coat hanger.
Good luck & keep us posted.
Ed
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Re the sloppy shift linkage: I had the same issue on my LS. In fact, when I checked the shifters on a number of other airheads, I found the same thing, and worse. I don't know how much of the bad reputation these gearboxes have is due to this slop, but it certainly can't be helping. The problem, it seems to me, is that BMW has specified a too-narrow needle cartridge for the shifter. On first taking it apart, I thought, "Oh, good, those clever German engineers put a serious bearing in a vital spot. I'll just replace my worn bearing, and I'll have a slick-shifting Beemer. (An oxymoron, I learned)
Fully half of the available bearing area is taken up with seals. I thought of eliminating the seals and installing two bearings end-to-end, but two didn't quite fit. I ended up adding a brass shim (about .020" thick) on either end of the shaft. You may have to play with the thicknesses. Eliminating the end play helped quite a bit.
I'm still looking for a needle cartridge that is longer than the OEM part. It might involve boring out the lever, or turning down (or shimming) the bolt, and maybe some o-ring grooves.
Steve
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Sears sold Allstate cars too.
Yeah. If my memory is still accurate, the Allstate was a re-branded Henry J.
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Re the sloppy shift linkage: I had the same issue on my LS. In fact, when I checked the shifters on a number of other airheads, I found the same thing, and worse. I don't know how much of the bad reputation these gearboxes have is due to this slop, but it certainly can't be helping. The problem, it seems to me, is that BMW has specified a too-narrow needle cartridge for the shifter. On first taking it apart, I thought, "Oh, good, those clever German engineers put a serious bearing in a vital spot. I'll just replace my worn bearing, and I'll have a slick-shifting Beemer. (An oxymoron, I learned)
Fully half of the available bearing area is taken up with seals. I thought of eliminating the seals and installing two bearings end-to-end, but two didn't quite fit. I ended up adding a brass shim (about .020" thick) on either end of the shaft. You may have to play with the thicknesses. Eliminating the end play helped quite a bit.
I'm still looking for a needle cartridge that is longer than the OEM part. It might involve boring out the lever, or turning down (or shimming) the bolt, and maybe some o-ring grooves.
Steve
I've been told that you can turn the shoulder back (the small one behind the threads on the shaft of the screw) to a minimum, non binding clearance & this will reduce much of the slop/flop.
I already took mine apart, pressed out the bearing, and cleaned & lubed the needles. This alone did not make much difference and when I get the bike back next week, I'll trim the bolt.
Also, my bolt seemed to have been loctite-ed and that would probably be a good idea for reassembly.
Thanks,
Chris
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I agree re the needle cage; it's very short for the length of the available opening in the shifter proper. I had thought maybe a longer bronze, brash, etc. bush could be made up and pressed in, but as long as the orig part was available I figured I'd go with it.
So "progress" on the forks. Pulled off the fender, instruments, wheel and caliper, last night, getting down to the nitty gritty. Undid the four pinch bolts on the triple clamps (tree) and expected the forks would just fall out. Ha! This thing is fooked! The bends in both forks had them well jammed into the lower clamp. Eventually I pulled off the bars and removed the upper clamp, no problem, with minor tapping with a plastic mallet. But the forks were still uber-jammed in the lower clamp. Pounding with a sledge resulted in some movement, but not much. Heat and WD40 helped, but by the time the top of the fork tube got down to the lower clamp, it was flared enough from my enthusiastic pounding that it wouldn't pass through; it's a very close fit.
So I undid the steering head nut and just pulled the whole fork/clamp assembly off. Now I need a new triple clamp, but (1) I'm not really surprised, and (2) that's probably good considering how much stress it received from the forks' bending. Got a line on a couple, so I should have it in had early next week if all goes well.
See pics.
Andrew
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The R65 triple tree and upper triple clamp, is R65 specific, the larger bikes had a different set-up .
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There are several on ebay. Checking PNs to make sure.
Andrew
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Yes they are wider that the larger models and have a different offset. they come up regulalry in the UK and are faily cheep.
So you shold not have a problem locating a set.
Or better still look cfor a complet front end - you need new tubes anyway.
Are you sure your fram is good?
Steve Hawkins
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The R65 triple tree and upper triple clamp, is R65 specific, the larger bikes had a different set-up .
Ours is better.
I would be worried about the frame too, that's a lot of force. But I don't know how to check one.
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Yes, could have screwed up the frame, and that's a risk I took. But I've examined it all pretty closely, and I think it's OK. The triple tree is pretty massive, and between the force getting abated by the tire, rim, forks, and tree, I'm forging ahead on the assumption that the steering head is OK. The wheel, forks, and tree are all sacrificed, so I'll have all-new metal all the way up to the steering head.
Found a local guy (Don W.) who has R65 and other airhead parts out the wazoo, so I probably will buy a tree tomorrow locally, without having to wait for shipping, etc. Plus I can compare to mine to make sure it's identical.
Andrew
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I can't really tell from the photos you've posted, but if the flat gussets welded to the steering head are indeed still perfectly flat, then you should be ok.
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They don't look buckled at all; that did seem like a key area to examine.
Andrew
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Got a triple tree from Don Whiteside, just over the hills from Berkeley, and got it all reassembled Saturday. However, ebay wheel is very out of plane; wobbles side to side at the rim maybe 2" when spun. So that's no good. Once I find a wheel, fix the choke cable, a couple other little mods and fixes, change the fluids, will be on the road, I hope.
Andrew
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Way late to this thread, but welcome from a newbie to the r65 world. Looks like you've got a very nice project there.
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Put an ad on ibmwr and got various responses for 18" wheels, including one from Rob W in Santa Cruz, so I popped down there yesterday morning and picked it up, along with some odds and ends, and got a choke cable from Don W.
Put it all together yesteday, finished changing fluids, bled front brake, changed oil filter, and hit the road. Bike works pretty well. Idle needs some help and handle bars still have a slight tweak, but all in all a functioning machine. Woohoo.
Andrew
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congrats
"I Love it when a plan comes together!"
Who said that?
Cheers
Steve
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I've been riding it every day to get used to it, and used to riding. I haven't owned a real bike since 1980 (Honda CL175). The Benellis don't count. This is fun.
I put the amazon.com-sourced R65 stickers (I cut off the "LS") on the painted side covers last night and will put them on the bike today. Next stop, valve adjustment.
Andrew
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Don't forget to zip tie those sidecovers in place, lest they depart while you're on the road.
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congrats "I Love it when a plan comes together!" Who said that? Cheers Steve
The line is by Colonel Hannibal (George Peppard) Smith, not Hannibal Lecter, and from the classic TV action show, "The A-Team". Lots of car crashes, explosions and gunfire... but no one was ever killed! Amazing...
For more stuff on The A-Team... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084967/quotes
I never missed it. Therapy didn't help. ;) Monte
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Nice "Classic" looking R65, Andrew.
Thanks, from all of us, for bringing it back.
Enjoy!
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Ed
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Adjusted the valves yesterday and checked the ignition timing. Valves were off a bit (exhaust tight, intake loose) and now it runs better and idles fine.
Andrew
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Got my MC learner's permit yesterday, and insured the bike, so now I'm legal to ride (not that that stopped me puttering around the neighborhood). Last had an MC learners in 1980, but I let it lapse when I sold my '69 CL 175.
Andrew
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Well done Andrew!
Welcome!!
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Cleaned up the rear wheel and hub with brake cleaner, and in the process discovered the left muffler bracket is broken clean through (see pic). Pulled the muffler off and will get a new bracket and clamp. Right side is OK.
Andrew
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Andrew,
Here's a link to my latest effort at solving the sloppy gearshift problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O13qBU9THQ
Steve
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Ordered and got a new bracket, and two muffler clamps, from Max BMW in NH; included in the packing was a bag of M&Ms. Now that's customer service.
Put that all on yesterday to discover my right muffler is cracked all along the mounting bracket and leaking exhaust there. Will pull it off this weekend and hope a weld will fix it. If the metal just burns up, I'll get another one.
Bike is so nice to ride. First BMW I've ever ridden but it's pretty much exactly what I expected.
Andrew
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Here's a picture of the crack in the right muffler by the bracket, circled in Sharpie since it's otherwise hard to see. Going to my machine shop tomorrow for some welding on my race car and will bring this along to weld.
Andrew
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Dennis at Norman Racing fixed it right. Stress cracks only, not rusting/burning through. So it's back on the bike and working well.
Andrew