The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: montmil on June 06, 2008, 03:10:45 PM
-
Pretty simple install, really. Had to take a cut-off wheel to an overhead and empty wiring plug attach point so the new coil would fit comfortably, but that was no biggie. The Motorrad Elektrik aluminum coil bracket is the essence of simplicity and function.
New coil, wires, caps and plugs. My cow is getting happy. Got some more cleaning to do. Hello, Simple Green.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FDyna02.jpg&hash=4b03865120f17e4695d05d85b6345b1e6b23bd1a)
Dated the coil install with a Sharpie in case I forget.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOrigCoil01.jpg&hash=a447270ec5268e3d44ba4a6c971f625f7143d9b3)
... and the original coil. The circular pattern of cracks were hidden by the snake's nest of wiring.
-
Nice pictures! I had never seen a cracked coil before. I had no idea where exactly the cracks occurred.
Good idea writing the date on the coil!
Don't forget the black zip-ties for your frame. :)
-
Nice pictures! I had never seen a cracked coil before. I had no idea where exactly the cracks occurred. Good idea writing the date on the coil! Don't forget the black zip-ties for your frame. :)
Neither had I until I used an inspection mirror and my MiniMag flashlight! Spotted the cracks while working on the front end wiring harness.
Thanks for the pic compliment. I'm still old school when it comes to photography. When I want really good images, I go with my 35mm film cameras. For most stuff, particularly for image postings, I shoot an Olympus FE-230 with 7.1 megapixel. The camera has a "close up" macro setting. That helps me look good. I'm also quite fond of the classic No. 2 pencil and a legal pad, preferably white.
For this and other forum postings, I scale the pics to around 4x6 inches so they don't take up so much "space". What's that word I'm looking for? I'm not all that compuKer savvy.
About the Dyna coil photo... Notice the two loose red wires running out the left side of the image. These are from a PO and I can't determine what they are doing and/or why.
Note both are tapped into existing, clipped off wires; one of the red wires - guessing red wire was all the PO had - is connected to a clipped off black original wire and runs to a grounding screw holding a relay in place. Strange. I thought das Germans liked brown for earth.
The other red wire is spliced into another clipped off original green wire and terminates in a tap into an existing green wire entering the fuse box. Very strange.
Note that there's also a clipped off brown wire - ground, most likely - and an odd orange-color wire. All exit the rubber tubular wiring loom. In the pic, the rubber tube looks like a rusty frame member.
I dunno what's going on here. No orange wires in my Clymer wiring diagram. I do like the full color printing in this manual. Much easier to trace wires.
Any ideas? I'm tempted to just remove them, but then again...
Got zips. They are the UV stabilized black numbers. Will zip 'em after cleaning up the wire harness.
Monte
-
The blue clips on the right look after market, as well.
Is the main wiring harness stock??? Does it have any of the stock wiring colors in it?
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FDyna02.jpg&hash=4b03865120f17e4695d05d85b6345b1e6b23bd1a)
-
Does anybody know what kind of service life to expect out of the Dyna coil ?
-
It does appear that someone has been adding on some electrical tidbits to that wiring harness.
The photos from my coil replacement thread last year shows what I believe is an all-original
wiring harness (for an 82 model):
http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1195434246/3#3
You can see in the picture that my original coil was also cracking in a circular pattern about the end.
All the coils with part number ending in "200" are subject to this problem, you can see that my oiriginal
coil and monte's were of this batch. A later OEM replacement coil part number ending in "203" (I think)
supposedly stopped the cracking problem, but I went with the Dyna Brown coil and have been very happy
with it. Starting has become even easier with some new plug wires..
-
The upgraded OEM replacement coil ends with the numbers 426, and is red and black, I installed one of these in 1994 when my original gray and black coil failed, it wasn't cracked, the secondary windings went 'open', infinite resistance.
The upgraded coil started giving me problems after about 9 years, the primary windings had low resistance, and was causing hard starting below 55 F.
I blamed the 10% ethanol that was added to our local fuel at about the same time.
So far no problems with the Dyna coil, I have left the bike outside in 22 F. weather, and no problems starting.
-
The blue clips on the right look after market, as well. Is the main wiring harness stock??? Does it have any of the stock wiring colors in it?
Oh, yes... several "custom" wiring touches I've noticed. As far as I can tell, the main harness is stock. Repeat... "as far as I can tell." Much of the correct color BMW wire is still in place and terminates at the correct bit of hardware. OEM wrapping of the wire is vintage and mostly untouched. I've checked it against a Clymer color plate wiring diagram.
The first item I came across was the ignition switch. It was not a BMW switch and had been custom fitted to the bike. A cutting torch - uh huh - was used to enlarge the opening in the metal switch bracket. A rice bike on-off keyed ignition was rather crudely attached with a typical ring mount. The wiring was cobbed together at the back of the switch. Earlier PO - not the seller - must have boosted a few cars in his day. At least he demonstrated a skill.
The bike also has an empty wiring socket with approx eight wires terminating in a male socket. It appears OEM with a black plastic case, rubber boot and properly wrapped wire loom. Properly wrapped means with the BMW fabric tape that has gone crumbly. It may be an accessory socket for... a side hack?
A few of the odd wires do not appear to go anywhere. At least not electrically. It's a challenge but also sorta fun. An Indiana Jones quest to simplify and make lighter.
At any rate... the bike lights off with a quick touch of the starter button and, with the new coil and HT leads and such, runs great. No complaints. And as my bride says to any and all, "Monte's always working on a project." And after seeing a bunch of Harley folks at the Hard Eight BBQ in Stephenville, Texas, she also allowed that, "We're not going to dress like trash." OK, Sweetie. Can I buy the new Metzlers now?
Stay tuned. Film at eleven.
-
Pretty simple install, really. Had to take a cut-off wheel to an overhead and empty wiring plug attach point so the new coil would fit comfortably, but that was no biggie. The Motorrad Elektrik aluminum coil bracket is the essence of simplicity and function.
New coil, wires, caps and plugs. My cow is getting happy. Got some more cleaning to do. Hello, Simple Green.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FDyna02.jpg&hash=4b03865120f17e4695d05d85b6345b1e6b23bd1a)
Dated the coil install with a Sharpie in case I forget.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOrigCoil01.jpg&hash=a447270ec5268e3d44ba4a6c971f625f7143d9b3)
... and the original coil. The circular pattern of cracks were hidden by the snake's nest of wiring.
Did you have starting problems with the old coil before you changed to the new one,or was it because you spotted the cracking and decided to change it,my bike has become hard to start when hot,i'm wondering what's causing it,the carbs have been set and balanced,and she runs fine when she's running!!but stop her,and she's hard to start again.
-
[/quote] Did you have starting problems with the old coil before you changed to the new one,or was it because you spotted the cracking and decided to change it,my bike has become hard to start when hot,i'm wondering what's causing it,the carbs have been set and balanced,and she runs fine when she's running!!but stop her,and she's hard to start again. [/quote]
Starting, hot or cold, was not an issue. The ignition miss on the left cylinder lead me to replace the vintage HT leads, plugs and plug caps. Mike's XS http://www.mikesxs.net/ provided the complete setup for a bargain price.
Further inspection discovered the cracked original coil. I received good counsel here on the Disorganized R65 site when I was advised to be very suspect of a 27 year old ignition coil. Right they were.
Hot start issues can be maddening. If you're sure the Bings are "binging" properly, I'd start looking at ignition sources.
Monte
-
Yes,iv'e changed the plugs,HT leads it's electronic ignition,so that makes me think coil,any other thoughts from you?cheers,J.
-
Yes,iv'e changed the plugs,HT leads it's electronic ignition,so that makes me think coil,any other thoughts from you?cheers,J.
A small inspection mirror and a flashlight. Check the ends closely.
-
Yes,iv'e changed the plugs,HT leads it's electronic ignition,so that makes me think coil,any other thoughts from you?cheers,J.
A small inspection mirror and a flashlight. Check the ends closely.
Ends of the coil?
-
Yes,iv'e changed the plugs,HT leads it's electronic ignition,so that makes me think coil,any other thoughts from you?cheers,J.
A small inspection mirror and a flashlight. Check the ends closely.
Ends of the coil?
Yes. The gray and black OE coil is kinda rounded in its shape. I found the cracks in a circular pattern at the forward end of the coil. Check the posted photos again.
-
The bike also has an empty wiring socket with approx eight wires terminating in a male socket. It appears OEM with a black plastic case, rubber boot and properly wrapped wire loom. Properly wrapped means with the BMW fabric tape that has gone crumbly. It may be an accessory socket for... a side hack?
All of our bikes came with "blanks". One, I know of, is for optional 4-way flashers. Another may be for heated handgrips or the driving lights. I am pretty sure none of them are for sidecars.
Here is my picture of my '79 sockets, identified, as best as I could figure:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.pbase.com%2Fimage%2F98334414.jpg&hash=474b2a551c6aaaf98ff9ee4a2809645f3824703f)
-
Pretty simple install, really. Had to take a cut-off wheel to an overhead and empty wiring plug attach point so the new coil would fit comfortably, but that was no biggie. The Motorrad Elektrik aluminum coil bracket is the essence of simplicity and function.
New coil, wires, caps and plugs. My cow is getting happy. Got some more cleaning to do. Hello, Simple Green.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FDyna02.jpg&hash=4b03865120f17e4695d05d85b6345b1e6b23bd1a)
Dated the coil install with a Sharpie in case I forget.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOrigCoil01.jpg&hash=a447270ec5268e3d44ba4a6c971f625f7143d9b3)
... and the original coil. The circular pattern of cracks were hidden by the snake's nest of wiring.
I'm thinking of replacing my original coi,over here in the UK they sell a Bosch replacement,would you say the one you have just installed is better?does it have a bigger output,hence bigger spark?i can't seem to find anyone in the UK who sells these so i would have to import it,give me your opinion before i make up my mind which one to buy,thanks.
-
I'm thinking of replacing my original coil,over here in the UK they sell a Bosch replacement,would you say the one you have just installed is better?does it have a bigger output,hence bigger spark?i can't seem to find anyone in the UK who sells these so i would have to import it,give me your opinion before i make up my mind which one to buy,thanks.
I went with the general BMW owner consensus that the OEM Bosch coil is not the most reliable over the long haul. Mine cracked just like the forum folks described.
The Dyna coil is also about $30.00US cheaper than the BMW replacement part. That may not be worth a squat in the UK! Rick Jones and his MotorradElektrik lash up are great to work with. Quick service and honest.
Do not know if it puts out a hotter spark. Don't really care. But I do know that my R65 starts and runs so much smoother than it did before. I'm sold on the Dyna coil. It is a very easy and quick install. But an OEM Bosch would be too.
Ultimately, it'll be your call. Have you Googled up Dyna coil? May find something in the UK. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
-
Most wiring diagrams indicate a "special equipment connector" as part of the harness - an unused socket. It has battery power, ground, high and low beam, and ignition power going to it. I assume it could be a good place to plug in accessories or to trouble shoot part of the electrical system. Although I don't know where you would get the matching plug.
BMW does not recommend using a sidecar with the R65 so it is not meant for that although it could be used.
-
I'm thinking of replacing my original coil,over here in the UK they sell a Bosch replacement,would you say the one you have just installed is better?does it have a bigger output,hence bigger spark?i can't seem to find anyone in the UK who sells these so i would have to import it,give me your opinion before i make up my mind which one to buy,thanks.
I went with the general BMW owner consensus that the OEM Bosch coil is not the most reliable over the long haul. Mine cracked just like the forum folks described.
The Dyna coil is also about $30.00US cheaper than the BMW replacement part. That may not be worth a squat in the UK! Rick Jones and his MotorradElektrik lash up are great to work with. Quick service and honest.
Do not know if it puts out a hotter spark. Don't really care. But I do know that my R65 starts and runs so much smoother than it did before. I'm sold on the Dyna coil. It is a very easy and quick install. But an OEM Bosch would be too.
Ultimately, it'll be your call. Have you Googled up Dyna coil? May find something in the UK. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
I did google dyna coils and came up with a company here that can supply them,7 to 14 days delivery,BUT,the model you have costs £150,which converted to USD is approx $292,so,far too much shackles for me!!anyway,the outcome is that a BMW specialist company over here in the UK suggested i use a coil from another BMW model that will work and last,so that's what iv'e done,the only drawback is that you have to make a mounting bracket,that's not a problem for me,so i designed and made one to hold the coil,it works and i'm pleased with the result,so all's well that ends well as the saying goes. 8-)
-
Wow, they must slap a really HUGE VAT on imported coils for making it 150 pounds, even with our weak dollar on the exchange !
-
Wow, they must slap a really HUGE VAT on imported coils for making it 150 pounds, even with our weak dollar on the exchange !
Yes!you have import duty and also VAT @ 17.5 so it bumps it up,you don't seem to get away with anything nowdays!. :(
-
That's ridiculous, the bare coil here is just a bit over $60. But, I suppose it keeps local manufacturers happy. I wonder if that is what has kept Lucas alive all these years? ;)
-
That's ridiculous, the bare coil here is just a bit over $60. But, I suppose it keeps local manufacturers happy. I wonder if that is what has kept Lucas alive all these years? ;)
Yes it is!!!here is the link,you can see the profit these people make!click on the tab and select the 2x output at 1.5 Ohms.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MCYCLE&pcode=TTSDC10-1
-
Is it "profit" for the seller or "profit" for the government in the form of import duties? If the customs isn't too bad maybe order from here, $130 USD for a pair? I ordered a pair and made my own mounting brackets:
http://www.mpsracing.com/products/Dyna/ig01aa.asp
-
I think that it is a primary source of revenue for the government over there. They need all the money to pay for more
cameras with which to watch their population, after all.. ;)
I work with an Irish fellow who spent much time in England working on electronics communications and printing equipment.
Depending on how the equipment was classified, there were VAT or import tariffs ranging from about 8% to as high as 80%,
I think. Well, I guess that our country has similar sorts of tariffs on ethyl alcohol and other things to help prop up our local
growers/suppliers, too. If the British government can do this for Lucas et al, I am sure that our government would do the
same for our local manufacturers, like Harley-Davidson. Oh wait, they already did that..........
-
I wonder if I could get a job watching the monitors those cameras are hooked up to, when this job runs out? ;)
-
I ordered a Dyna coil from young Rick a couple of years ago as the price for them in England was ridiculous. I think you had to buy a pair too!
It arrived after several weeks delay as those b***ds >:( at UK customs slapped import duty + 17.5% VAT on it and I had to pay the Post Office a "Handling Fee". It was still significantly cheaper than buying it over here.
A cheaper way may be to pay someone to obtain one in the US and post it to the UK as a "personal gift".
You may get away with it as they seem to look for parcels from companies first!
As an aside I had to order a green one for my Boyer electronic ignition. Both are magnificent and have transformed the old girl as I'm sure all the old ignition components were very, very tired.
Starts easily in all temperatures and I lost the BIG flat spot at 5,000 revs.
-
Help! Help! Help! While dealing with the float bowl overflow issue of my 1983 R65 - riding along at 45mph - engine cut out, tach needle stuck at 4000rpm - with dead engine. Coasted to stop, carb NOT overflowing. Tach needle casually returned to 0. Waited a few minutes, pressed starter, engine spun, coughed, started right up. What the? Rode short distance home engine running smooth and even. Inspected under gas tank, observed nice long crack in original grey coil both plug wires attach to. Ordered new coil from BMW dealer, gave year of R65, described coil needed. Received single 6 volt cylindrical coil from dealer. What the?? Checked parts schematic online, only coil shown is coil as sent, nothing like what is on my bike. What the??? Is original coil available or was Dyna Coil used as original no longer available? Do engine cut out symptoms above indicate specific electrical issue? Would cracked coil produce symptom? Anyone out there have similar experience? Bike is forlorn sitting in garage...
-
... Is original coil available or was Dyna Coil used as original no longer available? Do engine cut out symptoms above indicate specific electrical issue? Would cracked coil produce symptom? Anyone out there have similar experience? Bike is forlorn sitting in garage...
Original Crack-Os should still be available. They'll cost you more than the nice Dyna unit and everytime you ride, you'll get to wonder when it's going to crack again. Yes, a bad coil can create the problems yo u described.
Send it back! Get an order off to Rick Jones at Motoradd. $90 bucks and a ten-minute install job.
http://www.motoelekt.com/index.html
-
DgM, the 1979 and 1980 models used a pair of the round coils and all later bikes used the dual coil. If this dealer sold you one round coil for a later bike than that tells you volumes about their competence regarding the older bikes and they should probably be avoided like the plague. The Brown Dyna coil is very popular on most Airheads over here because it is a superior coil to the Bosch and only costs about 1/2 as much.