The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
General Category => General Announcements => Topic started by: steve hawkins on September 16, 2008, 06:23:27 AM
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I was involved in a collision yesterday on the R100.
I was overtaking a slow line of traffic - filtering actually, when one of the cars to my left started to turn into my path as I was over taking her and clipped the rear of my bike. It was a roundabout - and this young lady was in the left hand lane that was supposed to be exiting the roundabout and I too was intending to exit at this point (2 lane exit) - but she decided not to, and swung across that exit to go to the next exit - which she did - without indicating or looking behind her.
A glancing blow, that had me in a wobble, but I managed to stay upright. Once stopped I realised that she had done a runner - or at least continued with the flow of traffic down the other exit. So I did a U turn and set off in pursuit. I caught up with her pretty quickly and beeped my horn and indicated that she should turn in to discuss what had just happened.
Initially she seemed to think it was my fault and that she was in the right lane for the exit she wanted (and I cut her up!!!) - which she definately was not. Anyway it turned out that she had a long scrape on the top of her wing from my indicator and had lost some paint on her lower front bumper where my left hand exhaust had scraped by.
I had her paint all down my exhaust, but my indicator was okay - and so was I.
We had a firm but polite talk about what had happened and then parted company without contacting the police or insurance. She was a young driver with limited experiance and she did accept - when I explained to her the error of her ways, that much of the blame lay at her door. Although I did not labour point of the leaving the scene - business. A big no, no!
When I got home I was able polish off the paint on my exhaust, but there is just a discernable flattening at the end of the muffler where I scrapped by - but only when you look closely.
I hope the young lady really does appreciate the gravity of the situation and that she has much to be thankful of - the police do not take kindly of anyone leaving the scene - and it could easily have been a lot worse. If I had gone down, I could easily have been run over, by herself even.
However, I must also accept that my making progress put me in a possition where I did not have enough options when someone else did something that was not expected. Filtering is fine - but you need to keep the speed down and be vigilant at all times. Roundabouts and heavy traffic - are especially dangerous.
Had I been on my Cafe Racer, I have no doubt she would have heard me coming and looked to the rear - unless she had here stereo up loud!
Just sharing my experience.
Steve H
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Glad to hear that you and the bike are pretty much none the worse for wear, though if it weren't at a slower moving roundabout it could have been much worse for you !
I think that you handled it all quite well - don't know if I would have been able to keep as calm, but with younger drivers they do seem to be less aware of their surroundings.
The whole roundabit bit over on your side of the pond often confuses me at times as they sometimes have quite odd traffic patterns, to a yank anyhow. Must be the whole
which side of the road am I REALLY supposed to be on thing - glad that I don't have to do much driving in England any more !
Stay safe and aware, and ALWAYS expect that someone in a cage will be turning right/left in front of you !
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Always wondered about the traffic circle thing. For my enlightenment, the highway dept. has installed some off the new "outer loop", or 202 in Phx. Kind of fun, at least in light traffic.
My last loud bike was a tuned ZX-10. Loud seems an understatement. Still had people cutting into my space. Perhaps some engine bar mounted ex talibland rockets....
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Sorry it happened, glad it wasn't worse.
I've never noticed that anybody in FRONT of a bike can hear it much, no matter how loud it is. They don't even hear firetruck sirens.
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That is why I wouldn't filter, or "lane-split", even if it were legal here. I just don't trust cagers, some would take you out just because they were pi$$ed that you were able to get through traffic easier than they could... [smiley=furious3.gif]
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I hear what you are saying,
But being able to filter (lane split) and therefore make progress through heavy traffic, is one of the major attractions to using a motorcycle to commute to work in the UK. Remove that and you will remove half the bikes on the road in one hit and replace them with cars. What is the point of putting up with inclement weather if you have to sit in the jam with all the cages.
I put myself in an unsafe position by filtering at that specific point - out of habit and the fact that I have not had a near miss for some considerable time. The driver was in a queue of traffic that was going in a specific direction - when she decided that that direction was not for her. Had the road been straight with no options to turn, then there would not have been so much of a problem. Also at that point the traffic had just started to move.
The thing about filtering is not to do it when the traffic is heavy, but all moving. Just move with the flow. For safety, you should only do it when the traffic is either stationary or crawling stop/start. Then you keep your speed down and remain vigilant, so that you can avoid the inevitable impatient driver - or the driver that suddenly decides the next lane has moved 10 ft more that his lane and sticks his nose into it, or the one that opens the door without looking to see what the hold-up is.
As for roundabouts? They are fantastic - they keep the traffic moving much more for much longer. Far better than having stop lights at every junction. It was only when I visited the USA (Chicago, Washington, Seattle, LA, etc) that I realised why automatic transmissions were so popular - a device that is completely lost on me in the UK. All that stopping and starting at the lights, you would wear your leg out with the clutch!
Not meaning to have a dig - the open roads were great.
Cheers
Steve H
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I love roundabouts; we have a few here in Oregon. I just hope nobody is stupid enough to put stop signs at them. Don't laugh Steve, we have some pretty stupid stuff here.
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Happy to hear you survived Steve. Brings home the message "they're trying to kill us out there".
Stay safe.
Ed
;)
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I'm quickly beginning to understand why this "filtering" business is against the law in the USofA. Rapid way to get seriously hurt or die. I'm just not in that big of a hurry... ever! Quit it!
Monte
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Monte, I think it is legal in some states, CA and WA come to mind for some reason. Any comment from inhabitants of states where this is allowed?
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Justin,
It is definitely legal in CA, but don't think it is in WA. (ride through that state a lot, but could be wrong)
I think lane splitting is fine as long as the cagers are used to it. I have done it (illegally) in BC in a stopped traffic jam and because it is not recognised, the car drivers get upset, and either try to close you out or just not see you.. In California where it is usual, most (not all) car drivers are aware of your presence and don't give you any trouble. Now there are always the idiots on bikes that want to do 50mph through stopped traffic, which doesn't help our image at all, but they are a minority.
In Europe and the UK, it is expected by the car drivers that ALL bikes will work there way to the front of a traffic light or a traffic jam. As such most drivers are well aware of what is around them. As Steve commented though you still have to be on your toes.
But it isn't as dangerous or scary as trying to split traffic in areas where it is illegal and unexpected.
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I go through a roundabout daily on my work to work. As I only have 1½ mile to go I normally use my bike. Here in Denmark bikes must keep at the right side of the road and this goes for roundabouts as well. As cars and motorcycles have to turn right to leave a roundabout they will cut across the bikelane thus putting the cyclist at risc. Therefore the motorized vehicles are obliged to give way to the cyclists.
I have had two near misses, where a cage did not adher to this rule. Luckily I am very much aware of this kind of behaviour so both times I managed to stop before I was hit - and both times my temper got the worse of me, I banged my fist on the roof of the car and looked very annoyed at the driver, which can be dangerous to do as well!
A very common behaviour among Danish drivers is to use the turnsignals after turning: If a driver is going to make a right turn, she often apply the brakes, pulls to the left side of the road (her vehicle might turn over should she make a too narrow turn), turns to the right and then signals her turning. A left side turn is done in a similar way with the exception of pulling to the right side of the road. No, she stays in her lane, applies the brakes, stops if she sees a car coming towards her or stops anyway (a car might be coming towards her and better be safe than sorry). Then she turns left and signals her turning. Coming from behind her this is slightly annoying but coming towards her - well, you have to get your adrenalin kick some way or another!
greetings from a chilly and grey north
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Chris is right. It is all down to usual behaviour. In London things can get very interesting though.
What would be worse, is to drive in India or a 3rd word country where traffic laws only seem to be optional and the biggest vehicle always wins...quite literaly - And often the biggest vehicles are driven by people who have been at the wheel for far longer than they should have been....
Cheers
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Yeah, a friend of mine sent me a link to a video of an intersection somewhere in India - absolutely mind boggling...
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I visited a freind in texas in the early eighties he made a point of takeing me to "Orange" near the louisiana border to show me what he claimed was the only roundabout in america .......it was the size of a football pitch so didnt realy cut the mustard he was exited about it after his experiances in the UK with this interesting piece of motoring hazard
if i had taken him round the perafique in Paris it would blown his mind even though they drive on the right, Its a nightmare at any time of day or night
Lou
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At one point, lane splitting was allowed in Massachusetts, but I don't know if it still is anymore. In NH, VT, and Maine, it is strictly illegal. It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, but if one were to do it and have an accident it would be automatically blamed on the biker. I don't do it myself - see a few near misses and encounters with car doors and vehicles changing lanes. Yes, I sit there on my bike, in the rain in stopped traffic...
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I visited a freind in texas in the early eighties he made a point of takeing me to "Orange" near the louisiana border to show me what he claimed was the only roundabout in america ...
Your buddy had obviously never been to Waco, Texas and been challenged by "The Circle".
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Monte, I think it is legal in some states, CA and WA come to mind for some reason. Any comment from inhabitants of states where this is allowed?
West Coasters... it figures!
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Ft worth has a couple of "traffic circles" as well.
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I remember visiting Joan a few years ago when I was in Seattle with work - she was having a tech day - and I was late. The motor on Blueberry was being investigated/rebuilt. Joan let me have a go round the block on her new (new to her) R100RT? Anyway as I was wobbling round the block I was very surprised to come across a mini roundabout (i.e a small roundabout) barely half a mile form her house. Surprised - I too had been led to believe that they were rare beasts in the good ol US of A. Had to go round it a couple of times just to make me feel at home... ;)
Great people, great hospitality.
Steve H
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There used to be a number of traffic circles in northern New Jersey. Some of them were even located on multi-lane highways (most notably, Route 23). It used to freak out most vistors to the area. Most of the highways have since been upgraded and redesigned to eliminate the traffic circles. However, there are still a few around on local intersections, and there are several fair sized ones in New York's Harriman State Park.
k_enn
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Steve, your story reminds me that the only ones I've been on were as you describe, small ones for one or two lanes only.
Is that big freeway around London nothing more than a giant roundebout? ;D
The one where I read the way to get off it is to go around faster and faster until centripetal force flings you off in some random direction?
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No, most of the time the M25 is a giant car park, not a 'roundabout'. Only the 'brave' on thier motorbikes can move, and that is only because they can 'filter'.
You have been watching too much National Lampoons - Chevy Chase has a lot to answer for!
;)
Steve