The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: beemer on May 11, 2008, 07:03:05 PM
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Hi,i forgot to ask you guys about this,but here it goes!when i brought my bike back after purchase,it was strapped down in a van,as i didn't have insurance for it at the time,so i couldn't ride it home,anyway,the front forks were compressed,as the straps were put around the handlbars,when i got it home,i noticed fork oil on the van floor,and the right fork seemed to have been leaking due to the compression i guess,could the seal have been damaged?or is it possible that there was too much oil in the fork?and it was pushed passed the seal?how much of the seal should you be able to see when you remove the rubber dust cap?i wonder if i will now have to replace the seals?thanks for your help,J.
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I would clean up the fork oil leakage, change the fork oil in both forks, and then ride it and see if you really do have a problem with the seals .
If it continues to 'seep' or leak, then you will need to replace the seal.
It may have just been the unusual treatment it received while tied down for transportation.
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Could you tell me how much fork oil it needs,and how to fill and empty please,thanks,J.
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I find a funnel or a squezeable bottle with a tube is the best way to get the oil in the fork. On the back edge of the fork bottom you'll find a drain hole. At the top of each fork leg under the plastic cover you'll find a plug with a screw out center for filling.
If you strip the fork the is 210cc of fork oil a leg. If your just draining and replacing then 190cc.
Carefully remove the drain plug (they are very easy to strip) at the bottom of the fork leg, and the filler plug. Let the oil drain out when it has replace the drain plug, and then refill with clean oil. Its dead easy and takes no more than a half hour.
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I use a large (60 cc) syringe. No muss, no fuss...
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I replaced the oil in both tubes,so let's see if the oil leaks now!!otherwise i guess i will have to replace the seals,i will keep you updated,cheers,J.
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I replaced the oil in both tubes,so let's see if the oil leaks now!!otherwise i guess i will have to replace the seals,i will keep you updated,cheers,J.
Should you decide to freshen the fork seals, be sure to replace the "felts" that fit into the crown of the rubber slider caps. They are the first line of defense against grit getting to the seals.
I prefer the open fork tube look with the small slider caps but many have replaced the caps with gaiters/bellows or whatever you like to call 'em. Does offer more protection for the seals.
With the sliders removed, "borrow" a pair of pantyhose from your significant other and use them to slowly wipe down the fork tubes... calm down, guys... The fabric will snag on the smallest imperfection on the tube, if there is one, and perhaps show you what's eating the seal. Smooth with 400/600 wet-or-dry.
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Hi fellas
Whilst on the subject of fork seals could you guys please enlighten me what grade of fork oil I should be using?
thanks Steve.
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Hi fellas
Whilst on the subject of fork seals could you guys please enlighten me what grade of fork oil I should be using?
thanks Steve.
Ive just put 10w in mine,seems to be ok as far as i can tell,cheers,J.
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The bikes come from the factory with 7.5 wt oil.
I don't know at what weight of heavier oil will cause problems, just keep that in mind.
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Hi fellas Whilst on the subject of fork seals could you guys please enlighten me what grade of fork oil I should be using? thanks Steve.
Steve,
I buy the overpriced BMW 7.5 weight fork oil as spec'd by the factory. Doubtful a scooter could tell the difference between 7.5 and 10 wt. The 10 wt is much easier to find.
Monte
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I have read on Boxerworks of some owners mixing 5 and 10 wt oil, to get the 7.5. So I guess it is important to some.
Some folks are more sensitive to these things than others.
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If the fork seals need to be replaced,do you have to remove the forks from the bike,or can it be done without removal?thanks,J. :-/
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While I think that I could do it if it was a challenge and there was prize money involved, it is really much easier to do with the fork tubes off the bike.
If you need help with the process we can walk you through it - someone might even have some pictures posted in some thread somewhere around here.
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That's very helpful,will let you know when i'm ready to do it,thanks,J. :)
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That's very helpful,will let you know when i'm ready to do it,thanks,J. :)
Iv'e ordered a pair of new fork seals today,one of the fork legs is still leaking,do you think i might as well change both?the other one is fine,and im thinking"if it aint broke don't fix it"here!!what do you guys think?also,can i change the seal(s)by just removing the bottom half of the fork leg only?help please,thanks,J. :-/
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If only one is leaking, let the other go until it starts seeping, guess it all depends on your enthusiasm level.
You can just remove the lower part, but it's only two more pinch bolts, and it can be removed from the bike.
Get a few pieces of wood, and use them in a vise to hold the fork while you're working on it.
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If only one is leaking, let the other go until it starts seeping, guess it all depends on your enthusiasm level.
You can just remove the lower part, but it's only two more pinch bolts, and it can be removed from the bike.
Get a few pieces of wood, and use them in a vise to hold the fork while you're working on it.
I was just trying to save myself work in not removing the instrument cowl on the R65LS,i think you have to remove the top half or maybe all of it?to get to the pinch bolts,or am i wrong Bob,thanks for the reply and help,J.
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I don't have an LS, so I didn't realize the extra work involved, to get to the pinch bolts.
The less you have to remove those fairings, the better off you are, I'm quite sure the plastic has gotten brittle with age !
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[/quote]...also,can i change the seal(s)by just removing the bottom half of the fork leg only?...[/quote]
You can usually get lucky and take the lower fork sliders off by simply unscrewing the big allen screw in the recess of the lower leg. However...
...Luck will often divorce you during reinstallation as the damper rod will rotate as you attempt to get the correct torque on the allen screw. :( Then, it's time to remove the rubber caps, another allen screw, circlips and the aluminum plug at the top of each leg. A l-o-n-g 1/4 drive socket extension (in the neighborhood of 14-inches) and a 13mm socket will be needed to hold the damper rod while you torque the lower allen screw.
No hay lucha libre, amigo... There ain't no free lunch. The instrument cowl pieces and the handlebars will have to be moved. Been there and earned the t-shirt.
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Ah!ok,well,i will take it off then,rather then find it a pain in th A** when trying to get it back together again,thanks for the info,i guess i might as well do the other one too,it's not leaking(yet)but sods law says that it will within 2 days of me doing the leaky one!!!cheers,J. :-/
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you may as well change both seals at once as you say... In our state, to pass state safety inspection (which is always in June) one cannot have
leaky fork seals.
You don't have to take the fairing bits ENTIRELY off, but some disassembly is definitely required to get at the fork tube bits you need to access:
1) remove the inner black plastic covers (1 screw in each one) you may have to loosen/rotate/move some cables and the upper brake hose
around to get the room to slide each piece back to the rear to get the part of the cover that goes around the top of the fork tubes to come off.
Be careful ! These things get REALLLY fragile with age and are NO LONGER AVAILABLE. I think that these are one of the most often missing pieces
on LS models these days.
2) you will see (2) bolts inside the fairing area exposed from removing the (2) covers in #1 on each side of the fairing (top and bottom). I generally just loosen the bottom bolt and remove the top bolt on each side. This allows the fairing to mostly stay on, but allows you to rotate it forward/wiggle it around as needed so that you can CAREFULLY remove the black plastic cowl piece, that goes over the instruments and down the middle/around the headlight.
the black plastic tabs on that cowl piece that generally break off are on the front edges (either side of the headlight). IF they break, the cowling can still
be made to stay on.
3) remove the black plastic cowling by unscrewing the retainer ring from around the ignition key switch. Then carefully, gradually work the cowling up and
to the rear as you lift it over the speedo/tach gauges and mind unhooking the aforementioned plastic tabs at the front of the cowling.
4) you can now put a heavy old blanket on top of your gas tank, remove the clamp bolts that hold the handlebar on to the upper triple clamp and,
leaving cables attached, set the handlebar and its bits on the old blanket - OR - stuff it someplace forward of the fairing where it won't hit/scratch
anything. Best if you don't leave the handlebar assembly hanging by its cables for extended periods of time, or hanging upside down (master cylinder
may start to leak and make a mess of anything the brake fluid gets on).
You can now access the top of the fork tubes and pinch bolts to do the job with good accessibility !
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That's great info,thanks,i have removed the black centre piece before when i replaced the bulb in the speedo,so i should be ok with that i hope,but the other info you told me will be very useful,thanks,i should get the seals in a couple of days depending on our good old british postal system!!and tackle the job over the weekend probably,one thing you may advise me on is,will i need anyone else for any help?thanks,J.
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... one thing you may advise me on is,will i need anyone else for any help?thanks,J.
Removing the circlips is a 2-person job. Not that it's difficult but unless you can grow another arm by the weekend... well.
One person pushes down on the aluminum plug using, hopefully, a long arm allen wrench. You will then use a small flat blade screwdriver to push straight down on an edge of the circlip. As the clip is held by a machined lip, of sorts, and not in a machined groove, you can get the clip to turn vertically and pull it out with a pair of needlenose pliers. My wife is a champ at helping with this chore.
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Ok,i have to replace this fork seal now as it's leaking bad!i know how to get the fork off the bike,i need a step by step replacement info from then on,SO,the fork is off the bike,next please,i want to get it right!!thanks. :)
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Ok,i have to replace this fork seal now as it's leaking bad!i know how to get the fork off the bike,i need a step by step replacement info from then on,SO,the fork is off the bike,next please,i want to get it right!!thanks. :)
A vise with padded jaws -rubber inserts, soft wood, etc- will be very helpful in securing the fork legs so you can disassemble them without difficulty. Do not crush the legs with heavy pressure... just hold them in a vertical position so they will not rotate.
Remove the drain plug and catch whatever fluid is left in a coffee can or something. There will not be much. I use small 3x5-inch zip bags to keep track of removed parts. Use a Sharpie to write notes on the bag.
Remove the upper rubber plug. Get a helper to push down on the plug using a long-arm Allen wrench, then extract the circlip. Re-read above posts. Remove the aluminum plug and you'll be able to extract the fork spring.
Lift the rubber fork cap off the slider and, for now, push it up the fork leg.
Remove the 6mm Allen screw in the bottom recess of the slider. You may get lucky and not need the socket/extension... yet. The slider can then be pulled off. Note the depth and position of the seal, then gently remove the old seal. protect the alum slider by using a rag to avoid damaging the unit as you pop out the old seal. Use a screwdriver or whatever on the seal. It's toast anyway.
Clean up everything. Flush out the slider with a solvent. Be green. Don't dump the waste chemistry on the weeds. I maintain an oil drain "tank" and periodically drain the junk at the school district's bus barn recycling tank.
Your old seals may have the metric size cast on them. If you don't have the parts on hand, try a local bearing store. Faster than mail order. Also, the rubber slider caps have "felts" inside them. Be sure to replace them as they provide a first line defense against grit. Order from a Beemer supply.
Install seals straight in! A scrap of lumber and a mallet gets it done. Tap them in square to the machine recess. Don't mess this up or the seals will be damaged and you'll get to do it over. Ouch.
Before replacing the fork leg, use a bit of fork oil to lubricate the thin edge on the new seals. Watch the seal's i.d. "lip" to be sure it does not get folded under as you reinstalled the fork leg.
Re-read the above posts regarding the 13mm socket and extension. You may need a helper to hold the damper rod as you torque the lower Allen screw and its new aluminum crush washer. Fit the spring and reinstall the upper cap and circlip. Remember the drain plug. Be gentle on the torque with this little bolt. A new crush washer here is a good idea, too. Leaks are not good.
Fill the forks with fluid through the Allen screw hole in the upper fork cap. I use the spec'd 7.5 Wt BMW fork oil. Some folks prefer 10 Wt. About 230 cc in each leg after a rebuild.
Put the fork legs back on the scooter.
OK, other R65ers. What did I miss on this quickie lesson? Speak up and let's get Beemer back on the road.
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Ok,i have to replace this fork seal now as it's leaking bad!i know how to get the fork off the bike,i need a step by step replacement info from then on,SO,the fork is off the bike,next please,i want to get it right!!thanks. :)
A vise with padded jaws -rubber inserts, soft wood, etc- will be very helpful in securing the fork legs so you can disassemble them without difficulty. Do not crush the legs with heavy pressure... just hold them in a vertical position so they will not rotate.
Remove the drain plug and catch whatever fluid is left in a coffee can or something. There will not be much. I use small 3x5-inch zip bags to keep track of removed parts. Use a Sharpie to write notes on the bag.
Remove the upper rubber plug. Get a helper to push down on the plug using a long-arm Allen wrench, then extract the circlip. Re-read above posts. Remove the aluminum plug and you'll be able to extract the fork spring.
Lift the rubber fork cap off the slider and, for now, push it up the fork leg.
Remove the 6mm Allen screw in the bottom recess of the slider. You may get lucky and not need the socket/extension... yet. The slider can then be pulled off. Note the depth and position of the seal, then gently remove the old seal. protect the alum slider by using a rag to avoid damaging the unit as you pop out the old seal. Use a screwdriver or whatever on the seal. It's toast anyway.
Clean up everything. Flush out the slider with a solvent. Be green. Don't dump the waste chemistry on the weeds. I maintain an oil drain "tank" and periodically drain the junk at the school district's bus barn recycling tank.
Your old seals may have the metric size cast on them. If you don't have the parts on hand, try a local bearing store. Faster than mail order. Also, the rubber slider caps have "felts" inside them. Be sure to replace them as they provide a first line defense against grit. Order from a Beemer supply.
Install seals straight in! A scrap of lumber and a mallet gets it done. Tap them in square to the machine recess. Don't mess this up or the seals will be damaged and you'll get to do it over. Ouch.
Before replacing the fork leg, use a bit of fork oil to lubricate the thin edge on the new seals. Watch the seal's i.d. "lip" to be sure it does not get folded under as you reinstalled the fork leg.
Re-read the above posts regarding the 13mm socket and extension. You may need a helper to hold the damper rod as you torque the lower Allen screw and its new aluminum crush washer. Fit the spring and reinstall the upper cap and circlip. Remember the drain plug. Be gentle on the torque with this little bolt. A new crush washer here is a good idea, too. Leaks are not good.
Fill the forks with fluid through the Allen screw hole in the upper fork cap. I use the spec'd 7.5 Wt BMW fork oil. Some folks prefer 10 Wt. About 230 cc in each leg after a rebuild.
Put the fork legs back on the scooter.
OK, other R65ers. What did I miss on this quickie lesson? Speak up and let's get Beemer back on the road.
Iv'e just come indoors from my workshop,the job is a "good un"as they say!!followed your instructions to the tee and it all worked out fine,thanks so much for taking the time to explain it all,you should get a "Gold Star for Advice"award :)it all went smoothly,i just replaced the one that was leaking badly,the other one is fine,so i decided to leave it alone,i took it for a 10m run and no leaks on my return,thanks again,your a asset to the forum,J.