The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Danie on March 02, 2008, 01:17:56 PM
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I do not have any previous experience on boxer engines, and would appreciate information regarding the replacement of a camshaft:
1. I have removed the front engine cover, but I do not have the correct screw press to remove the altenator rotor. Is there any other way to remove the rotor, apart from using a screw press ?
If not, I would really appreciate a pic of a screw press which can be used for this purpose.
2. I also do not have the correct extractor tool to remove the timing cover. Can the timing cover be removed without an extractor tool?
3. I suppose the camshaft can be removed just by unscrewing the camshaft flanched bearing fastening screws ? (obviously the chain tentioner, chain, push rods, and lifters will have to be removed first)
Sorry about the stupid questions, - I've only got a R60/6 75/6 90/6 90/S Repair manual, and I am trying to find as many information as possible, before I go ahead.
Many Thanks
Danie
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I would really appreciate a pic of a screw press which can be used for this purpose.
available on line at http://www.northwoodsairheads.com/Tools.html
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.northwoodsairheads.com%2Fsitebuilder%2Fimages%2FIMG_1177-1-336x190.jpg&hash=cd069606dc0703d86ab18c7ef84323c8d5bf2fd2)
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Thanks MrRiden
If I can't find one locally, I will try and make one on the lathe.
Danie
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Hi Danie
I use a short metal pin with a slightly smaller diameter than the alternator screw and which is so short that it does not cover the outermost thread in the alternator screw whole. (There is a thread in the crankshaft end and a thread in the alternator whole).To dismantle the alternator I place the pin in the screw whole and use the screw for the alternator to press the alternator out.
greetings from a norht with varying cloud cover and tolerable driving conditions (dry and 45F)
trolle
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Thank you very much Trolle - your advice will save a lot of time.
Do you perhaps know whether the timing cover can be removed without an extracting tool ?
I will start working on the bike tomorrow evening.
Regards
Danie
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As far as I remember there will be no problems in removing the timing cover once you have dismantled the alternator, the rectifier (diodeboard) and the "beancan".
greetings from a quiet and dark north
trolle
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Thank you very much Trolle - your advice will save a lot of time.
Do you perhaps know whether the timing cover can be removed without an extracting tool ?
Danie
Some just slide off without too much trouble, others sometimes need a little heat on the crank bearing boss (where the alternator sits) before it will come off. Putting back on you will most likely have to heat the boss again to allow the bearing to slide in and let the timing chest bottom out on the case.
Don't forget the two small gasket/washers on the top chest screws.
Bill......................;-)
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***CAUTION****
Just read the post from Trolle about using a short metal pin. Be very careful if you go this route that you use a pin of hardened steel, not mild steel.
It certainly wouldn't be my preferred method even then, the turned down screw is the preferred tool. If that pin breaks, or even bends, in the hole, it will be a devil of a job getting it out, especially if a mild steel one bends and gets jammed between the hole base and threads.
Hopefully the rotor shouldn't be jammed on so tight it would ever get to that stage (most just pop off without too much fuss), but it has been known.
Bill.......................;-)
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Thanks for the advice.
Hopefully a 6 mm stainless steel pin will be hard enough to do the trick.
Will let you know whether it worked.
Regards.
Danie.
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Again, thanks Trolle - the stainless steel pin (6mm x 45mm) worked perfectly - and the rotor came loose quite easy.
For what it's worth - I have just polished the pin ends with a flapsander, to make the contact areas as smooth as possible - maybe there is no need to do this at all.
The timing cover seems to be a complete different story ......I can't get it loose, and my gas bottle (acythelene) is empty - so I will probably have to wait untill this coming weekend to heat the crank bearing boss ........
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The timing cover does not have any bearings, just the front main seal.
Make sure all of the fasteners are removed, and take a piece of wood and a hammer, and a few moderate hits should loosen it up.
From what vague memory I have of removing the timing cover, there were one or two fasteners, I think it was one or two 'phillips head /cross point' screws that were a bit 'hidden', so make sure all of them are removed before applying 'impact' force.
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That is right, there are more screws, than you expect, and as the cover sits on a gasket it may stick a little, so as Bob recommends, a few taps with a rubber hammer or a hammer and a piece of wood should do the trick.
greetings from a windy and cold north (30F)
trolle
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The timing cover does not have any bearings, just the front main seal.
Make sure all of the fasteners are removed, and take a piece of wood and a hammer, and a few moderate hits should loosen it up.
From what vague memory I have of removing the timing cover, there were one or two fasteners, I think it was one or two 'phillips head /cross point' screws that were a bit 'hidden', so make sure all of them are removed before applying 'impact' force.
Bob, the timing chest has a bearing sitting in it, if you're s didn't then it's been left of!!! It sits on the front of the crank just behind the alternator and main seal. The bearing boss sometimes needs to be heated to release its grip before the chest will come off, and likewise go home fully.
Bill.................;-)
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I removed the cover 10 years ago, and had no problem removing it, I know I replaced the front seal, probably never noticed the bearing on the crankshaft.
I'm sure if it wasn't there, I doubt I would have 80,000 miles on it without problems !!!!
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There is a bearing under the timing cover under the seal. I was told to heat the cover to get the bearing out but mine while snug wasn't tight enough that I couldn't remove it by hand. Perhaps you will be as lucky as I?
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Timing cover removal tool ::)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dick-blick.com%2Fitems%2F369%2F02%2F36902-1007-2ww-m.jpg&hash=c8cd5a4a4d64d88a9b5832b11668e564d254f550)
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During the past weekend I managed to remove the timing cover, without applying any heat to the bearing area.
In daylight, I discovered that three hexagon hollow nuts (which I thought was part of the timing cover casting), were still holding the cover in place.
By having a closer look at the damaged cam lube, it is clear that the damaged lifter only touched the cam lube at about 80% of the contact area.
- I have had a proper look at the lifter guide, and it still seems to be in perfect condition.
- By looking at the camshaft via the lifter guides - spesially the front (damaged) cam lube seems to be
out of line with the shifter guide.
Is this normal ?
Regards
Danie
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Pic of damaged cam and lifter.
<a href="http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh288/DaniesR65/?action=view¤t=DSCF31351.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh288/DaniesR65/DSCF31351.jpg" border="0" alt="Cam and lifter"></a>
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I wonder if you would of had any metallic debris in the folds of the oil filter from a failure like this?
I've gotten into the habit of cutting the metal ends off of the oil filter, and taking a close look at the paper filtering media, for accumulations of metal.
Wonder how long this took to get this bad ?
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The valves started getting slightly noisy about 30 - 40 thousand kilometers ago, and the noise just got worse by time.
As said before, the old chap who used to work on the bike before, assured me at least twice that the valve clearances were 100% correct.
I am no expert, but I am quite convinced that the damaged cam and lifter caused the "valve noise".
I usually change oil and oil filters every 5000 km, but unfortunately I have never had a proper look at the paper filtering media.
I wonder if the front lube and lifter are not subject to more wear by time - the contact area seems to be smaller.
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I think I have heard this type of damage referred to as "spalling" and some theorys indicate a manufacturing defect and blame it on poor/improper heat treating - who knows. As long as lubrication is proper I don't think the area you are referring to would be a big cause. I can't remember if the R100 lifter pic I posted was front or rear but just remember it was on the R/H side...
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I started shopping for a cam , one lifter, and timing cover gasket locally- can get a second hand cam "in perfect condition" for SAR1000.00 ( about 125.00 US$) , second hand lifter "perfect condition" for SAR380.00 (48.00 US$), and new gasket for SAR57.00 (7.00 US$).
Hopefully the bike will be back on the road soon.
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You might want to mail-order a new lifter. I think they are $20 something brand new...
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I have ordered the second hand camshaft, second hand lifter, and new timing cover gasket from a dealer in Johannesburg, and received this items today. I hoped to assemble the bike during this upcoming weekend, but unfortunately I was a bit too optimistic :
1. Due to unforseen circumstances I will have to fly to Johannesburg tomorrow evening, to train a few
of our staff members (Johannesburg branch) on Friday - will only be back late Saturday evening.
2. The dealer has sent me an incorrect lifter (different length and diameter)
3. I am very concerned about the "new" camshaft - although I can not find any reason why it should not fit,
the valve "lift" will definately differ :
- while the intake and exhaust cam lubes on the "new" cam are almost in line with each other,
these lubes seem to be at least 15 Degrees off line on the "old" camshaft.
- Different numbers have been casted on the two camshafts:
"Old" camshaft - 394 335 267 248
"New" camshaft - 75 250 249 247
I will definately contact the supplier tomorrow in this regard, but in the meanwhile I will really appreciate any related information / advice from anyone on this forum.
Many thanks
Danie
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http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/timingchain.htm
5. Besides a bearing, seal(s), cover gasket, tensioner/follower, and perhaps spring, and of course the chain, you will need to replace two (2) small round gaskets at the top of the case cover. These MUST be the same thickness as the new main gasket. MEASURE THEM. Select them at your BMW dealer's when you go pick up these parts, that is, MEASURE them to be sure the two small gaskets are the same thickness to each other, and the SAME as the large gasket. Failure to heed this advice will result in leaks. You can MAKE these washers, if you want to, from old gasket or other material.
jmtc
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Thanks for the advice Billygoat.
The bearing, tentioner, chain and spring is still in very good condition - has been changed by an old chap who worked on the bike before.
I received the two small gaskets from the dealer, although I forgot to order them - will make sure the thickness is the same as the new main gasket.
I visited the dealer on Saturday - both the camshaft and lifter which I originally received from them have been swopped for the correct ones.
They have made a mistake by sending me a complete wrong lifter, and the sparepart salesman told me that the camshaft which has been forwarded to me, probably came from an earlier LS model . I did not ask questions in this regard, but I suppose there is a difference between camshafts on some of the different R65 models.
Anyway, I am quite happy with the dealers service - despite of the initial confusion. They are very friendly and helpful, and they still seem to have many parts available for R65's.
Regards
Danie