The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
General Category => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: montmil on April 19, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
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For as long as I call recall, I have been attracted to "things" that make a lotta noise. As such, I have worn audio assistance units, ie: hearing aids, for several years. I grew up during a time when warnings of hearing loss and hearing protection were unheard of. Too bad for me. Move along. Nothing to see here.
A few of my interests include, but are not limited to:
52+ years messing with motorcycles, both on-road and off-road. Competition and street.
Power tools. Usually those that are quite loud. Routers, saws, loud air compressors n' stuff.
Aircraft. My flying years, both General Aviation and Uncle Sugar, took a hefty toll. Well worth it.
Automobiles are meant to be seen and heard.
My shootin' irons. One must remain proficient.
A screeching ex-wife. We'll leave it at that, yes?
So. I rode one of the R65s, with those sweet Norton Peashooter muffs, to a follow-up appointment with my new audiologist. I walked in carrying my helmet and wearing the rest of my gear...
"Mister Miller. You're a biker!" says the receptionist lady. Identical and immediate response from the lady audio doctor.
As gentle as I could, I did reassure them that I am not a "biker". Never have been nor will I ever be. I am a motorcyclist and there is a huge difference.
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Well put. I have shared the same self view for years. There is indeed a world of difference.
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As gentle as I could, I did reassure them that I am not a "biker".
There isn't a clear distinction between the terms Biker & Motorcyclist in our community or out.
One of my favorite magazines from years ago was Road Rider. They to referred to themselves as Bikers, I never could understand it. A lot of the folks at Road Rider were from Southern California too, home of the Hells Angels and other assorted Biker outfits. Seems they would have known the difference, huh.
I suspect some or many folks have never seen a "real" Biker. They are some scary sum bitches.........
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As gentle as I could, I did reassure them that I am not a "biker".
There isn't a clear distinction between the terms Biker & Motorcyclist in our community or out.
One of my favorite magazines from years ago was Road Rider. They to referred to themselves as Bikers, I never could understand it. A lot of the folks at Road Rider were from Southern California too, home of the Hells Angels and other assorted Biker outfits. Seems they would have known the difference, huh.
I suspect some or many folks have never seen a "real" Biker. They are some scary sum bitches.........
To a point, I agree with you, wilcom.
However, image is a huge component within the 'biker" genre, especially among those with a so-called mid-life crisis, Walter Mitty midset. I can easily identify these types at most any Texas barbecue joint worth it's smoke.
They dress up in costume as real bad azz hombres. Ride up in a small herd on the latest model H-D of choice and even go to the outhouse together. True story from a visit to Clark's Outpost in Tioga, Texas - the birthplace of Gene Autry and home of some outstanding 'cue...
The Fearful Foursome sat down at a booth right next to us. First order of 'gang' business was pulling out their electronics and attempting to schedule their next ride. One guy actually said, "Can't make it next Saturday. My son has a soccer game." I nearly snorted brisket out my nose. The corker was that each of the four 'bikers' ordered milk to drink. If I'm lyin', I'm dyin'.
Point being, these individuals are all poseurs, trying to be something other than themselves. I even kinda feel sorry for them until I remembered what a bad name and public image they present of real motorcycle enthusiasts.
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I am of the same opinion. I am just a normal 'joe' who happens to like to ride a motorcycle, on occasion. All the other baggage, you can keep.
There is a lot more to me than my motorcycle.
Just the other day, saw a 'biker' turn up at a gas station on his Harley thing. He was trying very hard - perhaps too hard - Nazi coal skuttle helmet, Iron Crosses on his clothes and bike, goatee beard, unshaven generally - dirty denim/leather mix. Badge. I wasn't sure if I should burst out laughing or run for cover. He was barely 5ft and old enough to be my dad.
Cheers
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I have been staying on the sidelines of this one but I need to climb up on my soapbox now. Agree with me or not I don't really care but this is a touchy subject to me.
I have been riding motorcycles most of my life and I consider myself both a motorcyclist and a biker, I don't see a distinction between the two. Placing a label because of what a person rides or how they dress or act is wrong. Period. Full stop.
Saying that "bikers" all ride Harleys and are dirty, scary sum bitches is like saying all BMW riders are effete, look down their noses at you snobs and that all sport bike riders are egotistical adrenal junkies. They all share one common characteristic, they like to be on two wheels. Period. Full stop. Whether they chose to identify themselves as motorcyclists or bikers makes no difference at all.
This past weekend was a big day for the Christian world. I attended an Easter Biker Celebration celebrated by a good friend, Chaplain Fred, the Biker's Pastor. He is a Vietnam Vet chaplain and has ridden his entire life yet he does not look like a pastor but like a "biker". Over 300 people showed up on a rainy Sunday to share a faith and a common bond of being on two wheels.
Were they "bikers" or motorcyclists? Does it matter? They were almost all veterans from every conflict from Vietnam to Irag/Afganistan and yes they mostly rode Harleys. My R65 and a fellow on a GS were the only two not on some form of V-twin. And yes some where covered in ink, almost all had on some denim and leather and most would not fit the image of polite society.
There were people from all walks of life and all social classes yet you could not tell from looking at them. When word circulated through the crowd that one of the families there had fallen on hard times, every pocket in the place opened up and they left with money for their rent and groceries for their children. No one asked, it just happened. Was that a motorcyclist gesture or a biker one? The "poseur" who couldn't make it the next weekend because of his son's soccer game had his priorities in order, his son came first.
A few years ago I was on a ride up the east coast with a friend of mine. I was on my Kbike and he and his girlfriend were on his Harley. Somewhere is NJ he lost an oil seal on his Harley and we were stranded by the side of the road. A couple of "bikers", on Harleys and wearing Hells Angels colors stopped, called a friend and 15 minutes later a "brother" in a pickup showed up, loaded him up and by the time we got to their clubhouse the part was there and we had a cold beer while they fixed his bike. Was I scared? You're damn right I was. Were they scary sum bitch "bikers". Absolutely. Yet they were willing to help out someone else on two wheels.
Call me a biker, I take that as a compliment. Call me a motorcyclist, that is a choice.
I got it all out. I hate labels because they fit no one. If I offended anyone please accept my apology. I am down off the soapbox now.
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I think alot of people outside of the motorcycling world, and from some of these anecdotes even within the realm of motorcycles, consider anyone with a bike, jacket, and helmet to be a 'biker'. In some cases, I think it is simple naivete of the speaker, not knowing that in may circumstances, many people recognize that there is a difference between the two, often of considerable proportions. For others, I think the "what's in a name" notion applies, and they don't feel that there is a need to fit to one label or another.
I heard an interesting story on the radio a little while ago, concerning race and a bunch of kids from urban schools, and how the perception and importance of race is changing in the next generation or two. When interviewed, the kids - would not self identify themselves as "black", "white", Asian, Native American, etc. regardless of their physical attributes. They all simply said that they were of mixed race, and they were fine with that, without having to self identify with a particular genotype. They became quite perplexed when they were made to choose and check off just one box in a medical form that was to specify their race, where I would suspect that many of us older folks would simply have checked one without thinking about it. All of these kids, selected "Other", and rejected the notion of having to self identify as a specific genotype/label. From the mouths of "babes", such as these, we all may learn something, I think.
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Were they "bikers" or motorcyclists? Does it matter?
To me, yes it does.
When you say "biker" to me my mental image is one that I DO NOT want to be associated with.
Not that there isn't a streak of kindness in most souls that walk the earth, but the ax murderer doesn't get a "pass" just because he is kind to animals.
Where I'm from, Southern California, the term biker refers to a group of really nasty assed people, ones that would sell your daughter into slavery, sell drugs, chop cars, kick your ass for a casual glance in their direction. That is my frame of reference.
That's the reason some of us make that distinction between Motorcyclists and Bikers.......... So if you look the part, your getting the label from me.
" You meet the nicest people on a Honda" was a slogan from Honda back when I started riding(60's) They to were trying to make that distinction back then. They were saying " if you ride my Honda you won't be thought of as a Jerk" It still hold true today 50 years later.
I'm not saying there arn't a couple of real A-holes riding around on Honda's. LOL
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The "biker" perception that some people have is an interesting one, and one that I have used to my advantage.
I have been riding for over 30 years. When I first started out, I usually wore blue jeans and a brown suade jacket. Around here, the car drivers were very inconsiderate, and would crowd me and/or cut me off on a regular basis. Eventually, I got a black leather jacket, which I wore with my blue jeans. Still getting cut off, etc. Then one day I happened to be wearing a black pair of jeans with the leather jacket when I was out riding, and suddenly the people in cars started keeping their distance more, and were not cutting me off and being the jerks I was used to. After a couple of rides dressed like this, I figured they thought that because I was wearing black and had a leather jacket that I was some kind of mean biker. For me, the image worked to my advantage, even without patches, tatoos, shortie helmets with stickers, etc. YMMV.
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Down here we used to have Bikies - they were in gangs, rode noisy dirty British bikes, had dirty long hair, dirty grease stained cloths, a leather jacket with a cut off DJ and were totally unsocal.
On the other hand we rode noisy dirty British bikes, had dirty long hair, dirty grease stained cloths, a leather jacket with a cut off DJ and were totally unsocal. But we weren't in a gang - so we called ourselves bikers.
I'm just an old guy on a bike these days, I'm ok with being classed as a biker.
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Whilst the 'media' still seeks to tar everyone with the same brush, whether you are a member of a 'bike gang' or just an just an enthusiast, there are going to be people, like me, who seek to distance themselves from the more extreme elements.
It does not matter whether the people are good and honorable in their outlook. It is how they want to be perceived by the uninformed. How they present themselves and how they behave.
I also sail dinghies, but I do not dress up like Captain Birdseye, or a Pirate. And people do not assume that I am going to 'board them in the smoke' and carry off their daughters and riches....
I drive a car. Does not mean I am automatically marked as a sociopath.
The media has always been a part of the problem. They are always looking for a story where there isn't one. An angle. To sensationalize the 'unsensational'.
Much like they always have.
Rev. Light
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And just to stir the pot a bit more .........
In Ozzie we had an election in the state of Queensland a year or so ago and the incoming conservative government decided to do something about the bikie gangs and their criminal activities. Fast forward and it is now illegal to be a member of one of the named patch gangs, wear their patches and some other stuff which included automatic increase in prison time for membership. The legal fraternity (in their pockets of course) and do gooders jumped to their defence, etc. At the end of the day it caused a lot of heartache to normal bike riders and has now settled down.
Those patch gangs in this part of the world are heavily engaged in criminal activity and anybody who defends them or says otherwise has their head up their Ars*. Motorcycles are simply a convenience for them and nothing else.
From what I have seen during my riding years, the bikies have a certain bad ass image which lots like to imitate. Riding a HD and stopping every five minutes for a latte is not my scene as I tend to ride solo or with friends. I prefer the tag motorcyclist and nowadays I ride for pleasure.
Just my two bobs worth, and I eagerly await the next opinion.
Burt.
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Unless I'm leading a very sheltered existence "Biker gangs" are a non issue in the my part of the UK and it's not that common to read bad publicity about motorcycles. On the contrary there has been some good publicity with large numbers of motorcyclists on Help the Heros rides in support of our armed forces.
I prefer the "motorcyclist" tag but "biker" does not have quite the negative connotation it seems to have elsewhere and is just a more modern expression. I wonder if it's something to do with our climate. Any bad publicity you do see will generally be about sports riders excessive speeding or injuring and killing themselves on the infamous local roads and that only happens in the summer.
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This old biker owns the cash Bingo franchise at his nursing home. Tough hombre. ;D
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FFunny%2520Pics%2FOldBiker_zps8a052fdf.jpg&hash=92faa7e200847c9be9e012ecae94500f410c8249) (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/montmil/media/Funny%20Pics/OldBiker_zps8a052fdf.jpg.html)
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Unless I'm leading a very sheltered existence "Biker gangs" are a non issue in the my part of the UK and it's not that common to read bad publicity about motorcycles. On the contrary there has been some good publicity with large numbers of motorcyclists on Help the Heros rides in support of our armed forces.
I prefer the "motorcyclist" tag but "biker" does not have quite the negative connotation it seems to have elsewhere and is just a more modern expression. I wonder if it's something to do with our climate. Any bad publicity you do see will generally be about sports riders excessive speeding or injuring and killing themselves on the infamous local roads and that only happens in the summer.
My experience is similar to yours. I live just 10 miles away from the largest city in the USA, New York City. Around here, we do have a lot of clubs, and they are just that and not gangs. We have single brand clubs (BMW Club, Harley HOGS, Ducati, etc), we have riding style clubs (cruiser clubs, sport rider clubs, etc) and we have lifestlye/occupation clubs (police, firemen, christian, etc). Almost all of these clubs have their own "colors" on the back of their jackets and vests. But you generally do not hear of any problems involving them (other than an occassionally sports club run where someone does something stupid and crashes). Many riders and clubs participate in charitable fundraising runs, sometimes involving in excess of 1,000 motocyclists. This does generate a fair amount of good will.
However, I am not so nieve as to think there are no outlaw or 1% gangs/clubs around. They exist around here, with Hells Angels having a chapter in New York City and in Newark New Jersey. There are a few other outlaw motorcycle gangs around too. But it is very rare to see them on the road, and I have never seen them in large numbers (usually no more tha 2 to 5). They tend to stay on in their area, in the cities, and sell their contraband there. They also tend to avoid anything close to a gang war. Other than dealing in contraband in their own territory, they tend to leave other people alone.
k_enn
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Generally the biker gangs like the skulls, hells angels, etc. don't have much public visibility in our area -- EXCEPT when it comes time for certain big time motorcycle races at the nearby Loudon Speedway, or for the Laconia Motorcycle rally (which used to be just a weekend but for the past 10 years or so has been exteneded to an entire "Bike Week". It is a gigantic conglomeration of squids on racerboy bikes, H-D posers, Grandpas on Goldwings, Airheads, Cafe racers, Adventure bikers - you name it....and the true 1% honest to god badass bikers also do show up, too. They have their usual/frequent spots and out of the main thoroughfare party and camping areas that You Just Do Not Go To if you have half a functioning brain in your head. Several decades ago there would be some skirmishes among rival gangs but they mostly try to keep a lower profile these days and just push drugs at the events out of the main spotlight, unless someone does something to cause serious offense. In some of the towns in my area a gang may move in for the week and rent most of the available rooms/cottages and the other gangs will generally try to honor boundaries and pick a different town to collect in. Most years, there isn't too much trouble, though the local police departments always gear up for that middle of June week in anticipation of something happening.
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I have also been a member of a large motorcycle club. but quite often the club politics can get in the way of any fun there might have been had.
The club I was a member of was a 'general' club, but there were factions within and was quite often 'clicky' (derived from - clique) and difficult to get into and as such had a high turnover in new members.
The factions varied, there were those that like to sit in a field all weekend and get drunk/high, whilst listening to a second rate band. Those that liked to foster an image of being 'bad ass', whether it be by the way they presented themselves or the way they rode. There were Harley people, race rep people, Old Brit iron types, general assholes and me, on a BMW K100.
The club finally self destructed, as there were two personalities, both of which felt that they had the answer about what the club should be doing, where it should be going, where/when it should meet, etc. This led to an irrevocable split is the club. Not into two factions but into three. 10% of the members backed one side, 10% backed the other. The other 80% walked away in disgust.
I did a few trips with them, across to France a couple of times, down to the coast, and a couple of bike shows, over a 2 or 3 year period.
Frankly, I do not like riding in large groups. Quite often it can be very dangerous, as you only need one inattentive or irresponsible muppet to create mayhem, or at the very least cause friction within the group.
Then you are forced to introduce rigid rules of the road for the group. The larger the group, the less likely it is that you are going to get from the ride, what you want. Whether you are being forced to ride slower than you want to, make more fuel stops for the idiot with the less than 100 mile tank range, or the bloke that comes out for a ride on an ill prepared machine, with no fuel.
The list goes on. I was one of the 80% that walked away in disgust. If I wanted 'office politics' I can get that from work. I just wanted to enjoy my bike and chat with like minded people - which I found were few and far between. This is what make these forums a great thing!
I also now only ride in very small groups, with people I know well, who have a similar outlook. On long rides, when we get to 4, we split into two independent pairs with similar bikes and riding styles - A buddy-buddy system.....And we have a destination and a time to meet at. We may do the whole ride as a foursome, we may not, for whatever reason.
We talk at the destination and do not use intercoms or radios whilst we ride. We just text each other if there is an issue. Everyone is responsible for navigation, whether you lead or not.
Friends of friends are welcome. If they fit in, they get asked to come again. If they don't......well
Cheers for reading.
Rev. Light
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<snip>Frankly, I do not like riding in large groups. Quite often it can be very dangerous, as you only need one inattentive or irresponsible muppet to create mayhem, or at the very least cause friction within the group.
Then you are forced to introduce rigid rules of the road for the group. The larger the group, the less likely it is that you are going to get from the ride, what you want. Whether you are being forced to ride slower than you want to, make more fuel stops for the idiot with the less than 100 mile tank range, or the bloke that comes out for a ride on an ill prepared machine, with no fuel.
<snip>
I also now only ride in very small groups, with people I know well, who have a similar outlook. On long rides, when we get to 4, we split into two independent pairs with similar bikes and riding styles - A buddy-buddy system.....And we have a destination and a time to meet at. We may do the whole ride as a foursome, we may not, for whatever reason.
I hear all that you said, and I agree with most of it. I will ocassionally do a large group ride for charity, but it does make me uneasy. There are usually enough idiots somewhere in the group that safety gets compromised, either by tailgating, inattentiveness, showing off, etc. Like may BMW riders I know, I prefer to ride alone, or with one other rider. This is so even for club events. Usually I will meet the other members at the destination, and enjoy swapping stories of the day over a beer or two. But for actual riding, I do prefer to have the freedom to take diversions and interesting roads that may pop up on my way to the destination.
k_enn
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They say riding in a group is an acquired skill but I never did acquire it and it never felt as safe as solo riding. Too much speeding up and slowing down for me, The rider behind always seems to have to ride faster than the lead rider just to keep up. I like to ride at my own pace and rhythm or with someone else of like mind. Even if you lead there is almost inevitably a physiological pressure to ride faster than you might otherwise do.
All in all I don't find it a good recipe for safe and enjoyable riding.
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when my sportster was off the road and i was using my 1100 virago , i went over to st leger harley for parts and to browse .(closed now) got talking to the boss and was invited out the following sunday for a run , doncaster to matlock , about 40 miles (took 3 hours , utter tedium) unbelievably i had to sign a waver and generally be a nice chappie , i was warned about taking my hands off the bars ! lol f****g snitch lol. they were quite derogative over my choice of steed , they were even looking down on a guy who'd picked up a brand new gorgeous £8000 sportster . of the 45 or so , several had bikes bought just the day before !
topics of conversation included newly purchased £600,000 houses in walled estates , and the bike they were getting next , one guy had more tattoos than skin , strangely none would show when wearing a nice shirt when in the office , he stated he didn't like old harleys as they may be unreliable ! and admitted the dealer did all his work , as it was under guarantee , as they all were , he changed it every year or so . actually the topics usually concerned , houses , cars , investments etc , they'd arranged to have a cafe for their own use and parked round the back or in the adjacent alley . all their clothing was harley brand £500 jackets etc . (had my £10 akito on) their mechanical knowledge was vague or non existent, most had started riding in their 40s, 95% of harley riders seem to be like this, rubs (rich urban bikers) it doesnt matter if you call yourself a biker or a motorcyclist . the point is . excluding all personal reasons , and you could either afford a bike or a car , what would you choose?
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well done for sticking with it.
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Bear with me here for a moment, but from one perspective my favorite motorcycle movie, "Wild Hogs" demonstrates social typecasting, both positive and negative. Yes there are pirate wannabes and there are high end snobs. To me it's all about the ride and the fact that you care enough to go out and ride. I even wave at scooter riders.
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It's all about the ride. I tend to see bikers as someone who lives in a fantasy land, whether it's a brand new triumph with matching triumph jacket, or a Harley Davidson weekend rider. In LA we get a lot of cafe racers who dig the hipster vibe but work on their own bikes, or lawyers who pay for $100 throttle cables. And I don't trust anyone who won't work on their own bike.
Personally, I am a two stroke scooterist no matter what I ride. Always will be. I run a vintage monthly ride out of pasadena. Modern plastic things don't do it for me, and that's why I ended up here with a r65.
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Very nice and probably costs more the an R65. I'm going to guess and say it's an Li Series 2. I had a Lambretta before I got into bikes. It resulted in my only ever brush with the law when I was caught riding under age. £5 fine and points on my yet to be obtained license.
Never had one but I was fascinated by the Vespa which had the engine on one side and the spare wheel on the other. The weight imbalance didn't seem to cause a problem.
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Frankly, I do not like riding in large groups. Quite often it can be very dangerous, as you only need one inattentive or irresponsible muppet to create mayhem, or at the very least cause friction within the group.
Rev. Light
I think "Biker" may have a different connotation in the USA as I don't feel there are as many negatives here in the UK, I have been on several major event ride Afghan Hero's from RWB several times which despite having thousands attending the atmosphere is great and the ride well disciplined.
The MAG protest group events are a different matter, plenty of Muppets showing off their lack of skills, as we were gathering at the M62 services for the last one there were at least three rear enders between bikes on the way into the car park
We see the wild hog types regularly at squires where we welcome all sorts of scooters/ mopeds antiques etc, personally I don't have time to be arseing about polishing all that chrome I just want to have the freedom to ride when and where I feel like it.
Lou
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Nice scooter Derek. Had a PX200 myself in the not so distant past - i.e. it has a disc brake and autolube. However my 18 year son 'hoons' around on a 1979 Douglas (Vespa) P125X. Mixes his own petroil, he does.
Its a bit shabby and basic. But its great for transport around the town. I.e. it can keep up with the traffic. Buts its another thing out on the open road : )
Rev Light
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i rode one once ! a vespa ! :D
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That's my lambretta LI150 series 2, I pulled it out of a barn in Redding, CA a few years back and has been in California since 61. I did all the work myself with the exception of the engine, its got a 190 kit and pulls very nicely for a scoot. Owned more than a couple of vespas and love them too. still have a rally 200 in my garage. Great for around town and short freeway jumps, those 10" wheels can get dicey.
http://youtu.be/RueOvwkjc2Q :o
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That's one fast scooter. They must have near doubled the stock power output to go that quick. I remember 2 stroke tuning being all the rage with fancy exhausts and grinding the ports in the barrel. And wasn't there something about filling the flywheel balance holes with cork to increase crankcase compression? What could be simpler than a piston ported 2 stroke. 1st engine I ever took to bits at the age of 15.