The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
General Category => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: steve hawkins on November 08, 2012, 07:57:29 AM
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Having the old Cafe Racer now for almost 11 years, I am feeling the need for a little change. The 'Long Live the Kings' thread and the fact that a lot of my riding these days is on speed limited roads, I am thinking of changing my Cafe Racer to a Bobber.
Dropping the clip-ons and rear sets for a set of standard pegs and wider bars. Possibly with a new single seat should be all thats necessary. Not a big job, but I will probably use it more in this guise that in its current form, its becoming a bit of a bind in slow town traffic and I am getting older. Perhaps some exhaust tape and a few other minor changes
Not going to do a full strip yet though as money will be limited.
Be nice to potter around the country lanes and byways in the summer out of the ways of the race-rep brigade.
Any thoughts?
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It's your bike, but please no! I love your bike the way it is. I potter around on my bicycle.
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Do not worry Ed.
Nothing I will do will be 'undoable' it really amount to just a change of riding position:
1. Re-instate a set of handlebars instead of the clip-ons - I have a USA set of high bars (RT), but might go for a pair of 'trail bike' bars.
2. Re-instate a standard set of foot pegs and levers in place of the rear sets.
3. Re-instate the hoop on the rear sub frame, but at a tilted up angle to pick the rear fender so that I have a more rigid point to hang my number plate and rear light.
4. Replace the seat with a single seat with no hump, the base of which will be home made.
5. I will have to fiddle with the idiot light/ingnition mount as I will be using the top yoke agin to mount the handle bars. But I will make a new one.
There will be no matt black and no removal of fenders etc, as I live in England and we have weather. If it does not work out, I will just put it back to a Cafe Racer
Cheers
Steve H
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I think it sounds great Steve. Ed is just worried because it shows so well in photos in it's cafe guise. :)
You might want to consider a Vapor instrument cluster, if it's not too "modern" for your tastes.
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1316298556
Certainly cheap enough, and will give you all kinds of information.
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Yes my brother has one on his R100GS.
I have this setup. I will keep it as it is, just make a new plate to hold the Idiot lights and ignition as I will be using the handlebar clamps again.
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If I could make a Vapor/Vector install look that good I would put one on my Triumph. I never seem to be able to keep a speedometer and drive both working at the same time on that bike.
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Okay,
Being a man of action, I have started the transformation.
I had a set of LT bars in the spares pile, so I though I would initially use these on the front end to get all my brake line, cables and wiring sorted. I have also removed the rear-sets and gone back to standard pegs and controls.
It does not look if I have actually done much, but most of the work is hidden under the tank, or it has been a direct replacement scenario. So it has taken me two weekends to:
1. Extend all wiring from the controls - 8 inch entensions, soldered and heat shrinked on every wire. A bit of fault diagnosis because I missed out an earth ;)
2. Replace front brake pipe with longer BF Goodrich hose and bleed the system.
3. Reposition the ignition and idiot light cluster.
4. Move the stantions and reposition the head light and all the tomfoolery with front end semi strip down.
5. Route new throttle cables and clutch cable (done several times to find optimum route), retune/balance carbs for new cables using my £5.00 carb balancer.
6. Remove rear-sets and search the garage high and low for the old pegs and levers. Had to order a new gear linkage as my bent piece of wire (kinematic lingage) had been lost in the last 10 years! Went for an adjustable type off of the larger airheads - but I had to shorten it to get the gear lever in correct position. Had to make up a new bush for my brake pedal as original was missing.
7. Test all lights and controls for correct operation - Check ride to adjust position of all and sundry.
So what does go like:
Well, the steering is lazier, as I cannot have the stantions poking up through the top yoke a full half inch to account for the larger 19 inch front wheel as the handle bars are in the way. I am considering making up some short risers - only 5 or 10 mm, so I can level the bike up again and quicken the steering. My weight is also further back, which also might have some bearing on the situation. I do not want to preload the shocks as I will just get a bone jarring ride.
What's next:
I have to look at the rear end - I need to re-instate the hoop on the sub-frame before I can make a new saddle - And I am going to introduce a bit of a 'kick up' on the hoop to pick up a new alloy rear mudguard. I am currently considering either a single seat or a dual seat. And I will have to change the rear light to something a little more stylish.
The current handle-bars are temporary, they are too high - I will be going for something between the LT and 'Euro' flat bar - only wider - I'll know it when I see it.
I will be saving all my Cafe-Racer bits, just in case a change of circumstances makes it more viable again.
There you go then, rode her to work this morning in -2 deg Celcius. Did not ecxeed 30 miles an hour through town and all is well - especially my wrists!
Rev. Light
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There you go then, rode her to work this morning in -2 deg Celcius.
Good man. That should have been me this morning and was last year. I've had to compromise because I'm giving my wife a lift into work at the moment and while I might just get away with + 2 there's no chance with -2.
I've got a feeling it's going to be a slightly longer lay up than 6 weeks this winter.
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I am currently working on the rear end at the moment. A mate of mine is helping. We have re-instated the rear hoop on the subframe, although it has been shortened by 2 or 3 inches. The awkward part of it was that the subframe has an insert inside the outer tube that is obviously there for strengthening, but is not welded - I was trying to insert a strengthening rod, and this insert was just moving around inside the tube. Got over it eventually though.
We decided we would try and do a hugger type rear mudguard using an alloy mudguard and some stays onto the swing arm rather than onto the subframe. Mounting the stays on the swing arm is the first point of order.
Will post a picture soonest as we make progress. Have to make a saddle as well.
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Cafe or roadster, that's still one sharp looking R65.
Remain calm, Steve,and Carry on. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Steve
I mounted my rear mudguard stays on the inside of the twinshocks.
you have to manipulate one side but it's easy done & that way the mudguard moves with the wheel
Elliott
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That is what I am going to do.
In the picture you can seen a 'practice' bracket that will go behind the shocks, on both sides, with holes drilled in each 'ear' to pick up a couple of stays, one either side of the shock.
I need to find somethin to use for the stays.
Also the saddle will now sit directly on the top of the subframe. And only be an inch or so thick. I will post the look that I am after.
You can see in the picture how the 10 year old red powder coating has faded - orange on the outside and reddish on the inside. It is all going to have to be taken apart agian as repainted
Mr E, what did you do with forward end of the mudguard, where it comes down to meet the swing arm?
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Saddle wise, this is the sort of look.
The bike itself is not far off, but being in the UK I cannot do without Mudguards!
http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2012/12/19/rudy-bannys-86-bmw-r80rs-brafe-racer.html
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Steve
How about this one.
this is my seat i had made in York, but may be getting rid along with the subframe as changing my mind again................any use??
As for the mount i made a bracket to fasten to the 2 bolts on the battery tray.
If you want any help, give us a shout
Elliott
EDITED - Reduced pic size
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Ah well.... maybe next Christmas...
Lou
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Ah well.... maybe next Christmas...
Oofta.. I really like the long, long...
mufflers on that beemer.
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Mr E,
Very interesting offer - Unfortunately, I am looking for a short double seat, rather than a single seat now, as I want to have the option for a pillion, when I re-instate the pegs, for short hops and the use of a set of throw-overs.
I am also looking to have a shorter, clean hugger only extending a short distance beyond the shocks, with the lights and number plate mounted on the subframe hoop. And I do not want them interfering.
I am still interested in how you have mounted the forward, lower end of the hugger.
But how did you go about making the seat? Did you buy a cover? or modify an existing seat.
Rev. Light
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Steve
PM me your email address, i'll send you some pics of the seat build.
The base is made of 1mm aluminium, forged round the subframe.
Only thing i'm not happy with is the seat builder didn't show the rear kink enough for me, it's too flat with all the material on.
base nearly finished
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Bit of a change of heart. Did not go for the hugger thing in the end as I could not get it to look right and stay the right side of the law.
So it is back to a more standard configuration, with a seat base made of alloy.
I am now in a quandry about having my seat base professionally recovered - 4 week turnaround from a local shop. Or try to do it myself - to a lower standard but quicker and cheaper.
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...I am now in a quandry about having my seat base professionally recovered - 4 week turnaround from a local shop. Or try to do it myself - to a lower standard but quicker and cheaper.
Have a go yourself Steve, I reckon you'll do a better job than you expect.
As an aside, what bars are fitted in the pic above? Are those the RT or LT ones?
Cheers, Sam
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RT/LT - Came off my R100 when I first got it. The R100 current has my orginal R65 'Euro' bars on it.
As far as the saddle is concerned, I think I will let the professional have a go. I chatted with her today and we seem to have come to an agreement/compromise on what I want and what is possible :D I know the finish will be better than I can ever achieve. After having marked the seat base up for rivets, she gave me it back to drill it, thus saving myself £20. Should have change from £100.
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Steve
I Can't see from the picture, but how are you fastening the seat to the subframe?
Also have you noticed any improvement from the air filers you've fitted??
Thanks
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Ah Wait, just noticed some brackets!!
The red in the picture is messing with my eyes....
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I have not noticed any significant improvement with the air filters - I would like to think its slightly punchier at lower rpms, but probably at the expense of the top end. I would recomend as much surface area as possible, mine are oval, so do not go for the little connicle ones or you definitly will lose out at the top end - just remember each cylinger is 325 cc aprox - thats quite a bit of air to drag through em.
The seat base has riv-nuts to secure it to the brackets.
Cheers
Rev. Light
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The seat base has riv-nuts to secure it to the brackets.
They not gonna poke you in the bum on our lovely smooth roads??
Coach bolts may make a comfier ride, you can trim the length of the bolt as needed....
All the best
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An inch of grade 8 foam should do the job of protecting my a*se.
I used the same method on my cafe racer seat and that had even less foam.....And my posterior wont be near the rivnuts when you look at the positioning. The upholsterer asked me to put in about 30+ 4mm holes for rivets for holding the cover, so she does not think there will be a problem.
The handlebars are temporary - it is likely I will go for a set of trail bike wide bars, down the line.
Rev. Light
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I opted for standard set Renthals on mine, gives a lovely position!
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Okay,
A weekend of fettling has produced this...Mounting the saddle was tricky, and to be truthful, I am not entirely happy with it.
We lost something it the execution of the welding of the rear hoop back on the subframe. i.e. some of the kick-up I was after.
This shows up with the way the lower edge of the saddle follows the top of the sub-frame - i.e. it does not very well.
All my fault though - was too slack in the detail. I am planning to cu the subframe and try again down the line. But I will ride it for a while till pisses me off enough : )
I have it booked into the MOT at the end of the week, so have not riden it a great distance.
Saddle is firmish, only time will tell weather it is too firm : )
I will get a better picture when the weather warms up...
Rev. Light
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Looks kinda BSA A10ish...
In the meantime a hunter's seat pad will tilt you forward a bit. That seat looks awfully thin though...
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It is - not much more than an inch thick foam, but there was a lot less on the Cafe Racer seat.
Although more weight will be on my back side now!
I will let you know how it goes.
Cheers
Rev Light
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I only wish my execution could have been more like this though
http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2013/2/25/la-coronas-81-bmw-r100rs-004.html
Rev Light
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Here is a better picture, on arrival to work this cold and frosty morning. Its probably quicker and warmer to get on the bike and cross town than it would be to scrape all the windows in the camper van and sit in it for 10 mins waiting for the heater to warm her up.
Cheers
Rev Light
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Last night I tried a couple of different handlebars. I was unhappy with the look of the RT bars I have currently fitted, although I had gotten used to them ergonomically. And the bike had become a slow steerer as a result of no longer being able to fully account for the big 19 inch front wheel, i.e the fork stantion can now only poke through the top of the yoke by a 1/4 inch instead of a 1/2 inch
A mate of mine had a set of Renthals and a standard handlebar from a Honda Hornet, which I supposed were not too far off the look of the standard BMW Euro Bars.
However, although I could fit the Honda bars, they were too low, to far forward and not really wide enough - although everything could be made to fit - it just looks crowded.
I looked to the Renthals, which were very slightly higher and had a more rearward sweep. Although they were black and not the more desirable chrome, they were free. However I could not fit them as they interfered with the tops of the fork stantions - which if you remember poke up through my top yoke already by not enough to counter the fact that I am running a bigger 19 inch wheel at the front....Hoisted by my own Petard! Again.
Thats the trouble with modifying, one change always leads to another and another.
Soooo, I have to find a way to either lower the front a bit, or find some risers.
Risers seem to be inordinately expensive and far too much rise for what I need - i.e. 1cm or so. I could try a set of R80/100 handlebar risers that are fitted as standard to the larger airheads, to modify, but Motobins and the like want silly money for them.
Putting an 18 inch wheel in the front would be another expensive option - as I would have to rebuild the front wheel with a new rim and new spokes.
Shorter or softer fork springs? I do not want to cut the current springs. Its gash - not the proper engineering solution. Nor do I want to go down the road of trying to source something shorter. But I seem to recall, when I did this bike up in its Cafe Racer guise I fitted new springs in the fork legs, and I might well have fitted the progressively wound heavy duty type, I can sometimes feel them rebounding witha slight thunk when going over bouncy roads.... I might still have the originals kicking around somewhere....Or am I thinking of the R100 set I recently tripped over.....?
...Obviously more thought required. ho hum.
I put the RT handlebars back on with a slightly more rearward slant to them. This seemed to work well on the way into work this morning and the bike did not seem to be quite so slow steering - although I cannot for the life of me figure out why. I must be imagining it.
Form over function? I already know where I lie on that one.
Rev. Light
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I agree cutting springs is not a great solution but could you grind 1/8" off each end of the spring
I wonder if there is enough meat on the stanchion top plugs to turn 1/4" off the spring face ?
You might also be able to turn a bit of the damper rod piston top but that's getting to be a drastic mod.
- it could all add up to what you need.
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i've an article somewhere on how to lower forks by adding a spacer internally
It's quite an easy job to do by the look of it.
I'll try dig it out now
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read here
from the XS650 forum
http://www.xs650chopper.com/2009/06/mulligan-machine-lower-your-xs650-forks-low-buck-garage-tech/
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Peculiarly enough, as I inferred above, I seem to have lost the slow steering nature of the bike by slanting the handlebars back a tad.
The position of the hand grips is probably only between 1 or 2 inches towards the rear from where it was.
Perhaps i just have a little more leverage? But the bike seems fine now - lots of fun to 'snort' around in the traffic.
I am now not sure I can be bothered to muck about with it any more :)
Time to look at exhaust tape for the 'look' and finish off the saddle.
Cheers
Rev Light
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Okay,
I scored a set of R100 handle bar clamps from ebay for £5 plus another £5 for postage.
I had a spare R65 top yoke which I have modified by grinding off the handle bar mounts and the front mounts for the standard iron-mongery that mounts the headlight, indicators, etc. I then smoothed it all off. It ain't mirror finished, more 'brushed aluminium', but it responds well to autosol.
I then stripped and polished the handle bar clamps and got some allen key dome headed SS bolts to fix the clamps to the yokes.
I am now ready to clean up the top yoke area and possibly make a new mount for the idiot lights and the ignition. I have also solved the problem with allowing my fork stantions to be able to come up through the yoke to offset my 19 inch spoked wheel. This will also allow me to fit a set of renthals.......
As you can see with modifying a bike, one change always leads on to another... And another.....Etc.
Cheers
Rev. Light
I am starting to think this thread belongs in the rebuild/project section
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So here it is fitted.
Its tidied the front end up nicely. Still with the RT bars as I could not get the left hand (clutch) switch gear on the Renthals - as they had knurled the bar end. And I was afraid of breaking the mounts.
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Jumped on the R100 today - Oh dear what a wobbly ride to work!
Having ridden the R65, with its wide and high RT handlebars and upright riding positon exclusively for the last month, the lower, less wide Euro bars were a bit of a shock.
Took me ages to get used to it again!
Cheers
Rev. light
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i went out on the R65 for the first proper ride last night, i'm sure the bike gets faster, each year.
I alwyas get to this time of year and think i'll sell it and go for a superbike, but then i ride it!!
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Never change bikes.
If you fancy a change just change your bike.....its more interesting.
I used to frequent a 'bike night' at a local pub.
There used to be rows of brand spanking new Ducaties, Blades and Gixers.
Where was the crowd?
All around my R65 or any other self built special that happened to roll up. Especially if they heard me come in.
In fact, even the blinged up Harleys never got a second glance......
Cheers
Rev. Light
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Where was the crowd?
All around my R65 or any other self built special that happened to roll up. Especially if they heard me come in.
Cheers
Rev. Light
Interesting, Steve, and quite frequently true.
During last weekend's Red Bull MotoGP weekend, son Zach, aka recondotexas, rode his mildly tweaked '83 R65 past a parked covey of racy BMW R100RRs and a couple HP4s. To a man, they all gave him thumbs up. Made his day.
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10m of black exhaust wrap arrived in the post yesterday.
Looks like I will be cladding my headers this weekend......
Hopefully it will be better looking than high temp paint.
And a new rear Conti is waitng at the tyre emporium. Decided against the semi-knobblies, as although the back tyre is shot, the front has a lot of life left in it and I find I am too tight to chuck a perfectly good front tyre......
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Tape on.
Not as nice as a stainless set of headers, but better than black high temp paint that does not want to stay on very much....
Rev Light