The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2

General Category => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Air4Life on April 12, 2013, 04:46:34 PM

Title: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Air4Life on April 12, 2013, 04:46:34 PM
I hope to attend my first "tech day" in another month; sooner if I knew of any nearby.  

Last time I did my tire changes I did not remove the bearings, I merely lubed them judiciously with that gimmicky device that just about everyone on the airhead list has condemned as of recent.  

My question is, beside  grease and the items below, is there anything else that I would be expected to have with me that day?

rear:

(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maxbmwmotorcycles.com%2Ffiche%2FDiagramsMid%2FB0000875.png%3Fv%3D08102012&hash=9da765cd58b33a9e493ea3145fec9a06f115344e)

 36 31 1 230 334       SHAFT SEAL - 36X22X8      0.02       1        $13.88

36 31 1 232 523       GASKET              1        $4.74

front:

(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maxbmwmotorcycles.com%2Ffiche%2FDiagramsMid%2FB0000869.png%3Fv%3D08102012&hash=241b7e12fb41afe595e437293b137f76d14e1bb6)

36 31 1 235 836       SHAFT SEAL - 22X40X7      0.03       2        $6.61

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qKueKvCVsPQ/UOGz7oKVYMI/AAAAAAAABH8/j0NMyJR2IH8/s450/35K+rear+hub.jpg )

[smiley=dankk2.gif]
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Bob_Roller on April 12, 2013, 05:08:32 PM
Just curious what kind of 'device' did you use to lubricate the wheel bearings ???

Just curious what other members use for wheel bearing grease ???

I have a small container of wheel bearing grease from NAPA, it smells like gear lube in grease form .

This is the first time I've gotten grease that wasn't the 'fibrous' type that I've been using for decades .
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Air4Life on April 12, 2013, 05:29:20 PM
The follow is the tool I was referring to.  It is one of the FIRST airhead specific tools I purchased:

http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/wheel_bearing/tool1.jpg

When I made this decision, I had already planned on doing a complete hand pack grease job on the next tire change.   I guess all the airhead list wheel bearing chatter got the best of my nerves and now I am considering doing it prior to my next tire change.

Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Bob_Roller on April 12, 2013, 05:44:33 PM
I did the rear wheel on my '82 LS, the biggest hassle, is getting the grease seals out and then installed again .

I've been looking at the tool and is this to grease the bearings while still installed in the wheel ???
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Air4Life on April 12, 2013, 05:53:51 PM
Yes.  It is my understanding that this is an occasional substitute for hand packing bearings.
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Bob_Roller on April 12, 2013, 06:45:13 PM
I jsut can't figure out how it would grease the bearings, I'm assuming it is inserted in place of the axle .

With all of the bushings and spacers that are between the bearings, I don't see how grease would get to the bearings, it's pretty much a solid 'tube' from one side to the other .

I'm confused !!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Think I need some backwoods  'corn squeezins' .
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Barry on April 13, 2013, 11:45:40 AM
Quote
I just can't figure out how it would grease the bearings, I'm assuming it is inserted in place of the axle .

With all of the bushings and spacers that are between the bearings, I don't see how grease would get to the bearings, it's pretty much a solid 'tube' from one side to the other .


I grease my bearings the hard way and I've never used the tool but can sort of see how it might work.

When the wheel is off the tool is inserted in place of the axle with the inner O ring inside the central spacer and the outer O ring inside the top hat spacer. When the bearing stack is not under compression there is enough slack between the top hat spacer and the bearing and between the bearing and the wedding band for grease to get into the bearing.  Where it goes from there is another thing though and there is no chance it will push the old grease out of the bearing while the seal is in place. And if you have to prise the seal out you might as well do the job properly by removing the inner bearing for a clean and re-grease.  

At least for the front wheel the only thing that puts people off greasing the bearings is getting that seal out. I devised a simple way of getting them out and re-using them. Levering with a screw driver can cause damage but an open ended spanner of the right size acts as the perfect lever with the tip of the lower jaw under the seal edge and the curved part of the jaw as the fulcrum on top of the inner bearing. Works a treat with no effort.

There is another good reason for doing a proper job of cleaning and greasing the bearings. If you change your own tires and don't possess a wheel balancer washing the grease out of the bearings and lightly oiling them before reassembly enables you to balance the wheel quite accurately using it's own bearings.

At best the tool can only be good for a quick top up of grease and I don't even think that is necessary.  When was the last time you added grease to the bearings on your car ?
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Air4Life on April 13, 2013, 02:20:06 PM
I used to almost enjoy cleaning and hand packing bearings on my late 60's Chevy autos.  I've done my share on various aircraft bearings as well; but then again, I didn't have to read a novel about the process.

Edit: <Needs FOOTNOTES>

I only used the "tool" once.  And from what I remember of it, it was okay, okay as in better than ignoring it all together.  But one must use care as to making sure the included seal is doing its job; and to do that one must pay attention to the way it is positioned in the wheel as you pump the lever.  This is important to get at least some of that grease going to the right places, and not just squeezing it out the other end.

I guess I'll attempt both front and back when my rear needs replacement.  That wont be to long from now, as I have 8K on it.  

Anyone from Brooklyn NY here?
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Air4Life on April 21, 2013, 08:11:51 AM
Quote
Levering with a screw driver can cause damage but an open ended spanner of the right size acts as the perfect lever with the tip of the lower jaw under the seal edge and the curved part of the jaw as the fulcrum on top of the inner bearing.
[Emphasis Added]

I had the rear off just the other day to repair a flat and used Mr. Korn's greasing tool to freshen up the bearings at that time.  For situations like that, I think its great.  Anyway, I hope you can bear with me here, because I'm not 100% sure I understand the technique you described above completely enough.  

If I understand you correctly, you "lever" the seal out by moving in a crisscrossing manner along the outer circumference of the seal while extracting it.   I had not tried to remove the seal, but from what I remember of it, wouldn't levering the inner circumference work too, maybe even more efficiently?  There seems to be more give in the seal based on its design, as that would make for ease at fitting the spanner's lower jaw tip underneath its edge, rather than along the stiffer outer edge.

I am planning on ordering new seals anyway, but it would be nice to know how to do the operation just the same...

All the best.


Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Mike V on April 21, 2013, 12:01:51 PM
Here's what I use.

Be sure to properly clean the captured bearing cage with Brake Clean, and straw nozzle, then carefully blow dry with air. I push fresh grease in-between each roller with the syringe, doesn't take that long.

Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Air4Life on April 21, 2013, 12:34:16 PM
Quote
Here's what I use.

Yes, yes.  I saw that post Mike.  Thank you.  I think it's great.  But I'm still interested in attempting to remove the seal without disrupting it so that I can hand pack my bearings, or attempt to perform the more refined method you describe above.

I questioned Barry on his method of seal removal, as it seemed like a good way to go on the occasions where I don't have replacement seals lying about, as was the case for my recent flat tire repair.

What method do you use to remove the seal?  
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Mike V on April 21, 2013, 01:10:55 PM
Blunt end screwdriver, carefully not to mar the inner hub.  You can use a seal removing tool or slide hammer also.

I wouldn't recommend trying to save the seal.  A difficult maneuver.  Remove it and replace it.  Inexpensive, easy to acquire and should be a part of normal periodical maintenance.  I think wheel seal replacement is too often overlooked while their importance and function is underestimated.

Stand by, I have another picture I'll post of the seal removal with slide hammer.

Just my personal opinion.

Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Mike V on April 21, 2013, 01:20:41 PM
Air,

The challenge with this is...getting the fixture lip in-between the seal and outer surface of the bearings inner race.

Be sure to examine the contact surface of the Top Hat(s) for pitting, wear and grooves caused by the seal wipers.  Measure them and replace them also if necessary. Lightly lubricate the Top Hat where it contacts the seal wipers during reinstallation.
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Air4Life on April 21, 2013, 05:17:13 PM
Mike: That last picture is helpful.  

If there is a chance of damaging the other areas, it would seem to me I could use two small self tapping screws on either side to thread into the relatively soft material of the seal and use them to withdraw it.  This way, I wouldn't have to approach the precision surfaces with a tool that could mar it.  

Opinions?

Part Number        Description      lb              Qty      

 36311235836       SHAFT SEAL - 22X40X7      3                   
 36311235832       SHAFT SEAL - 40X22X5      1                  
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Mike V on April 21, 2013, 05:38:36 PM
Air,

Nah, don't need to use screws - that would probably cause more harm than good.

I think you're being too cautious.  Just "carefully" pry it out. Manipulate the screwdriver in a twisting manner once you get it positioned in-between the seal and bearing (and working around the clock).  May take a bit of force at first until it unseats itself.  Just be careful not to insert the screwdriver blade too deep into the wheel bore.   I think you would have to be pretty ham-fisted to damage the bearing or wheel.  Remember - you're going to replace the seal anyway, right?  Don''t be afraid to mangle the old seal.  Once you get one done you'll develop the feel to comfortably do the other one.

-Mike V.
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Mike V on April 21, 2013, 06:01:42 PM
Air,

Excerpts from Snowbum's web page...

"For the later wheels where access is had withOUT heating, BMW nicely changed the design, and access to the wheel bearings is generally just a simple matter of prying out the grease seal and its lipped metal spacer, which is often just called a Top Hat Spacer.    The lip, or hat if you will, on that spacer is INside the seal if assembled correctly."  

"The wheel seals are not overly critical to being installed squarely and exactly to proper depth.  They DO last longer and work better if installed squarely.  You do NOT need special tools for removing and replacing the seals."  

Bob has recently included a very nice Wheel Seal Chart. Have a look...

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/section4.htm

I still measure the old seals, identifying them "L" or "R", "Front" & "Rear" and mention to the parts guy their dimensions, number of wiper rings, whether they have metal or plastic jackets...just to make sure.  Unless you have a lot of confidence in who you are ordering from.  The Real OEM Microfiche pages have been known to have errors in this area.

[size=12]BUT-[/size]
If replacing the seals is absolutely no option...

Remember the "brim" of the top hat should be inboard of the seal, if you're very careful with a blunt wide blade screwdriver (or similar tool), and you're slow and deliberate - you may be able to save and reuse the seals.

Maybe

-Mike V.
Title: Re: What's Expected of Me On Tech Day
Post by: Air4Life on April 21, 2013, 07:25:12 PM
That's great.  Thanks a bunch Mike.    
 



"36-31-1-235-832

All cast wheels on the R65 and SOME other cast wheel models.   
This seal is directly interchangeable with the -836 seal, and can be used
to replace the -836.  The -832 seal original came with a double sealing
lip, which is BETTER than the original -836.  The -832 is a bit thicker
than the -836, but works fine, and it IS PREFERRED"


From the new chart you directed me to. Thanks Mr. Snowbum.