The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2

Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Crossrodes on November 25, 2007, 02:35:32 PM

Title: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on November 25, 2007, 02:35:32 PM
I think it was NC Steve that said several here had installed the sidestand from BeemerRich.  I ordered one for my '79 R65 and received it about a month ago.  It looks like a fine quality part.  I am finally getting around to installing it.  I am having some problems and have some questions.  I don't see how this side stand fits.  Here's what I see:
 
The current sidestand is a stock unit and is as is shown in the parts diagram for the '79 R65.  
 
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0353&mospid=47850&btnr=46_0025&hg=46&fg=15
 
I have removed the nut and washer and slipped the threaded rod (that supports the engine to the frame) back thinking that the current sidestand would slip out.  However the part that sidestand attaches to appears to be welded to the bike frame.  I was thinking that the current sidestand would be connected to the bike through the threaded bolt that is the engine support (passes through the crankcase) however this does not appear to be the case.  I believe I can remove the current sidestand by removing the pins in the above diagram however I don't understand where the sidestand Beemerrich sent me would bolt to the bike.  I am stumped.
 
Can anyone give me some direction?


Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: NC Steve on November 25, 2007, 02:59:16 PM
Mike, these Brown's stands can be a bit confusing at first, but please see if this picture helps.
Once you see it, it's fairly self-explanatory. The forward hole is actually for attaching the exhaust hanger, and the rearward one for attaching to the motor mount bolt. Some folks use the replacement engine mount bolt that Beemerrich supplies, bit it's often not necessary.

Most of us have left our factory sidestands intact, as they tuck nicely away underneath everything, so you'll actually end up with 2 sidestands, just 1 you'll never use & which stays out of the way.

(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi146.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr261%2Fsteve2371%2FBrownonR65.jpg&hash=705bcf7da132d9bdbf132aa95707dce4930a6b9a)

Hope this helps!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on November 25, 2007, 04:22:08 PM
Steve I was puzzling over this.  Your picture seems to be different from the set up on my bike.  My exhaust hanger is actually attached between the rear motor mount/frame and the down pipe.  

Looking at your picture it appears that you disconnected your exhaust hanger from the frame/motor mount and moved it forward on the down pipe and attached the sidestand that way.  Looking at my bike it looks like if I do that the exhaust hanger will be attached to the pipe and to the side stand with no direct attachment to the frame other than through the side stand.  Is this how you did it?

Mike
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: NC Steve on November 25, 2007, 05:34:32 PM
Hmmm...

For what it's worth, this isn't an actual pic of my own install, but an internet-stolen one from the infamous Blueberry, owned by the even more infamous Joan, she of the Seattle territories   8-)

But, that not withstanding, the basic installation should be pretty  much the same, although it may well be necessary to adjust for various & sundry exhaust hangers, etc. Slide the hanger as necessary, as long as you're still appropriately positioned for a correct seal.

As far as "no direct attachment to the frame other than through the side stand", the sidestand bracket itself is bolted very securely onto the rear engine mount bolt, and the exhaust is supported at several other points along its' way, and I've never heard of any structural  problems with either the stand or exhaust.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on November 25, 2007, 05:51:44 PM
OK. Thanks Steve.  I'll give it a shot tomorrow and let you know how I make out.  I appreciate your feedback.

Mike
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Justin B. on November 25, 2007, 09:52:28 PM
Look closely at the pic, the Brown has two mounting holes.  The rear hole is located to the rear engine mount stud, the exhaust bracket slides forward and attaches to the front hole - no magic involved.  The rear hole takes all of the weight and the front hole ties it to a convenient fixed location (the exhaust pipe) to keep it from rotating around the engine mount when force is applied through the stand "leg".

In fact, it'll actually work with just the one through the engine mount.  My '95 has been like this for a couple of years as there is no stock exhaust hanger and I've been too lazy to fabricate something to tie the front hole to.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on November 27, 2007, 03:41:16 PM
OK I got back at it today.  It looks like things will fit per the photograph.  Thanks again Steve for giving me that.  

However now I've run into another problem.  The longer engine mount stud that you referred to Steve didn't come with the stand I bought from Beemerich and I haven't heard back from him from an email I sent him a few days ago (I'll send him another email).  Even if I back off the nut on the opposite side I will only have half the nuts threads holding the stud.  I don't like that idea.  So here is the question....can I simply replace this stud with a longer piece of threaded rod that I could maybe get at Home Depot?  Or are there any particular strength or metallurgic qualities that I will need in the rod (stainless steel)?  
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: NC Steve on November 27, 2007, 07:39:54 PM
I really don't want to be giving any metallurgical advice - perhaps Justin or Bob might - but I personally can't see the problem in using a hardened steel threaded rod, or at least threaded on the ends anyway. Any weight and stress should be contained in the engine cases, and you'll only use the stand when parked, so I really can't see the problem (although I'll now sit back and wait for the experts to point out the foolishness of the whole idea  ::))

I'm surprised you can't get the existing engine mount bolt to go further through: must be an early-vs.-late R65 thing. I used the new rod from Beemerrich on my '84, just because it was shiny & new, but the stocker would have worked just fine too. I'm sure Richard would hook you up with a mounting bolt, though, if you can track him down.

Good luck, hope yu can get 'er straight!  ;)
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Justin B. on November 27, 2007, 09:02:18 PM
I doubt that metric all-thread can be had at Home Depot...  But, speaking of stainless steel, would there be a market for a few sets?
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: donbmw on November 27, 2007, 09:37:16 PM
The Stock rear engine mount was long enought on all 3 of mine. I back off the Rh nut until one thread showed and push the mount over to the left installed stand and tightened with about one thread showing on the LH side.

Don
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Justin B. on November 28, 2007, 04:51:18 AM
That was kinda my experience as well...
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on November 28, 2007, 09:32:35 AM
It's definitely not my experience.  I backed off the nut on the opposite side and tightened both up after I got the left hand nut started.  Now I have about half the nut threads making contact with the stud. :(  
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: NC Steve on November 28, 2007, 11:37:14 AM
Mike, can you measure the length of your motor mount bolt?

Let us know, and if my original stocker's any longer and will solve the problem, I'll be glad to mail it to you: I'm not using it.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on November 28, 2007, 11:51:58 AM
Steve I was thinking the same thing.  I'll take it out and measure it today.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on November 28, 2007, 12:24:12 PM
Steve it is 12 13/16" (I don't have a metric measuring tape).  I'm assuming that it is the same length as your stock stud.  The question now is how long is the stud that Beemerich supplied?
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on November 28, 2007, 04:07:48 PM
Steve, Richard has contacted me.  He is sending a longer stud.  It looks like the problem will be solved.

Mike
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: NC Steve on November 28, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
Quote
Steve, Richard has contacted me.  He is sending a longer stud.  It looks like the problem will be solved.

Mike

Good deal [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Rich seems like a pretty stand-up guy, so I figured he'd fix you up.

I've been at work all day and am just leaving, so had planned to measure the old stud and get back with you tonight, but apparently no need now.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on May 01, 2008, 11:11:51 AM
Well here I am again on the same topic.  To make a long story short I have been away for the winter and just returned in April.  A couple of weeks ago I got back to installing the sidestand again....

Horror of horrors it turns out that the motor mount stud that Rich sent me is shorter than the one that was installed before (I need a longer one to accommodate the addition of the sidestand).  I've tried to contact Rich via email and he is not responding.  I've also tried to find a local metal shop where I could buy some 12 mm rod to make my own motor mount stud and no one carries metric rod.  I don't want to install an SAE size because it will probably cause problems down the road because of a sloppy fit.

There are a number of possible solutions:

1. Does anyone have a current email address or phone number for Beemerrich (The email I have may no longer be current and that may be why he is not responding).

2. Does anyone have a 12 mm motor mount stud they will sell me.  It will need to be a minimum of 13 1/4" long.

3. Does anyone know of a mail order place where I could order 14" of 12 mm rod.

If anyone has any other suggestions let me know.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: NC Steve on May 01, 2008, 12:08:02 PM
Wow Mike, you've really had your share of problems with this stand! I feel somewhat responsible, but also know several folks who ordered the same stands, including myself, and everything went smooth as silk.  I had problems once with Richard's email address too, but the one I have now is         beemerrich_49503@hotmail.com, which is slightly different than his older one. No phone #, sorry.

I just pulled out my original BMW mounting bolt and measured it, and it comes in at exactly 12".
I'm not sure why yours would need a bolt 13 1/4" long, but unless someone else here steps up with a solution, try your local Ace Hardware, which has lots of stuff the big-box retailers don't stock.
Also, you may want to try Southern Fasteners, http://www.southernfasteners.com/index.htm , or Automotive Fasteners, http://www.automotivefasteners.com .

Good luck, and please keep us posted.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on May 01, 2008, 12:32:45 PM
Hi Steve.  

Yep I've had more than my fair share of problems with this bike.  It originally came from Germany.  The owner brought it with him when he emigrated here apparently.  That certainly explains some of the differences I have come across...but for the frame to be that much wider doesn't make sense to me.  I measured the original stud again.  It is 12 13/16" long and believe me there are not enough threads left to fit the side stand onto that stud.

The email address you posted is the one I have been using and I do recall that Rich at one time said he doesn't check it too often because it's the one he uses for his Paypal???  I tried another one I found by doing a Google on his name this morning.

Anyway I hadn't tried Ace hardware.  It's just a small store here but it's worth a try.  Failing that I'll try some of the other internet sites you posted.

Thanks for the leads.  I'll let you know what happens.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: NC Steve on May 01, 2008, 12:49:14 PM
Mike, I'm sending you a PM that will hopefully help.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on May 01, 2008, 01:00:54 PM
Got it Steve.  Thanks.  I've found a place that will order 12 mm Drill Rod for me ($50 for a meter)...but I'm inclined to do that rather than persue this further with Richard.

Thanks again for you help.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Justin B. on May 01, 2008, 03:30:35 PM
You don't need drill-rod, just steel rod.  You can get a six foot hunk of carbon steel for $30 and the same length of chrome-moly for about $30.  
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on May 01, 2008, 05:53:16 PM
I'm sure you can pay that price in the US but here on Vancouver Island you pay more....I did in fact get it ordered for $44 (I ordered drill rod....someone in a steel shop told me that's what I needed).
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: MPKaier on May 01, 2008, 07:02:56 PM
Hi All,
I just thought I would show anybody interested how I mounted my brown side stand so that it would work with the Reynolds ride off stand.  I mounted it to the front engine bolt, not the rear one as instructed.  Then I tilted it down as far as possible.  I then used a small fabricated bracket to go from the front hole to the bottom bracket of the engine guards.  This way It clears the center stand when the side stand is up.  Maybe this will help.

Mike
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: MPKaier on May 01, 2008, 07:07:03 PM
Here is another angle.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Justin B. on May 01, 2008, 08:21:04 PM
Mike, that's slick.  I'm glad you took the initiative to solve this issue instead of just whining about it like I do!   ;D  So, no physical modification to the actual stand?  I don't have bars on my '81 R100 so will have to fabricate something to tie the front of the Brown mount to but that shouldn't be too hard.  Eeeew, would that be a coathanger wire shift linkage underneath that rubber boot?   ;)

Crossrodes, the prices I mentioned were internet/mail-order prices from one of the pricier (but reliable) suppliers so that levels the playing field, unless shipping is exorbitant to your neck-of-the-woods.  Do you have the threading dies and such?  If not, Wholesale Tool has fair prices on taps and dies.  http://www.wttool.com  Looks like they have an adjustable 12mm die for $10.50.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: MPKaier on May 01, 2008, 09:05:36 PM
Justin,
No it's not the coat hanger.  I put the upgrade on, not as good as yours, I must say.  I just covered it up with the original boot.  It was a real pain to get on, but makes it look stock.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Crossrodes on May 01, 2008, 10:17:23 PM
Mike that's really interesting.  I think I'll take a look at mine to see if it would be better in my situation...although mine is not a Brown stand but probably a good copy.  

Justin, yes I do have two sets of dies...I'll be OK with that.
Title: Re: Installing a Sidedstand From Beemerrich
Post by: Justin B. on May 02, 2008, 04:01:01 AM
Mike, you have far more patience than I!  I thought about doing that on the R65RS when I put on the one-and-only stock replacement I've ever bought.  After fiddling with it for a few minutes I decided that the bike would look just fine with a nekkid linkage.  Now, I can see why folks would like to cover up the wire and I'm quite sure that BMW probably used the boot in the beginning to hide the linkage from the hyper-critical motorcycle press.