The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
General Category => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: ddebonis on June 27, 2012, 04:27:55 PM
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Hello all,
I'm excited to have found a community of R65 owners. About a month ago I bought a 1984 R65 -- seen below with the Golden Gate Bridge in the background. I'm looking forward to sharing my progress as I fix the handful of things that need work and getting your advice. This is also my first bike -- I've been saving/waiting/procrastinating for the past 7 years -- so please forgive my rookie questions.
The bike's story: This '84 was sold in '85 from Action Motorsports in the Upper East Side, NYC. The Corbin cafe seat is just as old -- it has the original owners name on it. (Funny enough, I was a baby in NYC during this same time -- it's a long shot, but I like the idea that I could have seen this bike while I was being pushed around in a stroller.) Two years later it was worked on by Lindercycle in New Canaan, CT. In about three years, the owner(s) put 20k miles on it. Fast forward 20 years and it ended up in Albuquerque, NM, non-running with 34k miles. Sandia BMW put $1500 to get it running and sold it to the previous owner who moved to SF this past Feb and sold it to me. I had it inspected. Compression is good -- 140psi in L and R.
It's got a nice patina, but looks great before you get up close. There are small dents, scratches and rust about (since it's my first bike, I didn't want anything too precious). It's been crashed and dropped on the right side -- skid marks on valve cover, crash bar and exhaust. Also, engine kill switch and headlight switch were replaced with generic rocker switches.
Issues I hope to fix:
-It idles around 1400-2000 once warm.
-Intake manifold dry and cracked; needs replacement.
-Clutch boot leaking trans fluid.
-Possible oil leak from rear main seal. Trans does not slip, but oil is dripping down back of engine.
-Right turn signal needs to be re soldered.
-Brake light does not illuminate when front break depressed.
-Seat lock missing.
-Rear suspension replacement.
-Replace foam hand grips.
-Get shorter/lower handle bar (R65's seem to come with two varieties)
-Original tools mostly missing.
-Stitching in seat needs fixing
About to order the Clymer manual and buy missing tools.
For now, I'm not worried about dents/paint.
Been enjoying riding it around the Bay Area.
Cheers,
Danny
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Welcome Danny,
Very nice looking bike and your list of issues is not untypical. Most R65's of that age will have had one or more of them at some point.
Starting with the idle speed that's a common symptom of the adjustment being made before the engine was really warm. There can be other causes but try the simple things first and lower it to 1100rpm when the bike is fully warm. It should then idle at a lower speed than 1100 for at least the first 5 -10 miles but that is entirely normal.
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Welcome to the group, Danny. Nice looking bike!
Our forum's collective wisdome should get you all straightened up in no time.
Hopefully a forum administrator will move your post to the technical Q&A section where more users will see your post.
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Welcome Danny, good looking bike from the photos .
You've pretty much have the common problems that these bikes develop, nothing real serious, just a bit time consuming to get them taken care of .
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Thanks everybody.
Let's add to the list: sometimes it does NOT start.
Just tried to go for a ride and when I push the start button, I just hear rapid "clicks."
This is the 4th time I've had trouble starting. In the past I would try to start and the engine would struggle to barely turnover. Other times it could click rapidly.
2/3 of the time the bike starts on 1st or 2nd try. Previous owner did report any issue with me.
Up until now, I have successfully push-started bike. Thank goodness for SF's hills. Just tried now and I got it going, but it died when I closed the choke. Then had trouble getting it running again (I'll try again after I post this).
QUESTION: What does it mean when you can hear the engine is struggling to turnover versus when you hear rapid clicks.
The battery looks fairly new. I last rode it 2 days ago for a few hours. I don't leave the key in the ignition.
I live in the city and park on the side walk. I suspect a Batter Tender might solve my woes, but I'd need to run a pretty long extension cord.
Please help. Thanks!
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Your battery sounds like it's not in good health, motorcycle batteries don't take much abuse before failing .
Also, the charging system on the airhead bikes, doesn't do much for charging the battery, until you get in the 3500 rpm range .
So, if you ride in 'city traffic', slow speeds with traffic lights, you are going to have battery charge issues with your R65 .
A battery tender is a good idea, if you keep it plugged in all the time if you can do it in your situation .
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A battery tender is a good idea, if you keep it plugged in all the time if you can do it in your situation .
Thanks. It is mostly city riding.
Anyone have experience with a solar power charger like this?
http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-50013-Motorcycle-Powersports-Battery/dp/B001D6GYLO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1340843852&sr=1-1&keywords=solar+motorcycle+battery+charger
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+1 on the Battery tender - the intelligent ones available these days are quite efficient. We had a member here, a few years ago, make a solar panel charger for his bike. that seemed to provide some usefulness, but I cannot recall the name.
I'm not familiar with that product in your link, but to charge your battery, it will have to be putting out about 13.4 volts or so, and its 1 watt rating indicates about 70 milliamps max output at that voltage. You'd have to have plenty of sunshine and it would have to be sitting in the sun for 8+ hours per day to amount to what a $45 battery tender could do in about an hour at your home.
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Welcome Danny! Nice bike!
How many miles on it now?
Compared to mine when I got it, yours looks pristine! ;)
Your battery problem could be one of three things:
1. Bad battery
2. Bad alternator
3. Too many starts and not enough charging time.
It's tough to help with electrical problems without knowing specific readings. And that requires the use of a volt/ohm meter. Got one? Know how to use it?
But there is an indicator that can tell us a lot about what's going on - the charge light in the tach. Is it lit at start up, then goes out and stays out above 1100 RPM?
A word of caution: When any relay or starter makes the clicking sound, stop immediately! When the clicking happens, the points arc which then prevents current flow. So, say the battery is bad and you hear the clicking a lot before finally replacing the battery. You may wind up replacing a relay or rebuilding the starter solenoid because it still won't start. ::)
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My bike currently has 34,553mi. (The previous owner only had it for ~9 months and only put 1,500mi on it.) It may look good in pictures, but in person you can see the 4 dents, scratches, pitting and corrosion on the paint.
Thanks for the advice on avoiding the clicking -- that's good to know!
I do NOT have a volt/ohm meter and have no idea how to use it. Will the Clymer manual tell me how to use it? Is there one on Amazon or elsewhere you'd recommend?
There seems to be a few different Battery Tenders? Which one should I get?
Keep in mind, it does start on the 1st or 2nd try most of the time...
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While I would check the battery issue first, other possible causes for hard starting could be a cracked ignition coil, or a starter that is on its last legs.
The cracked coil could result in not enough "juice" getting to both cylinders, causing a hard start. (Before I replaced my coil, it would initially fire on one cylinder only, and after a short time the second one would kick in). A starter that is going can (1) not turn the engine vigorously enough, (2) draw "juice" that might otherwise be used to fire the engine, and (3) have you cranking too much / too long and draining your battery.
I had both of those issues in the past year and half. Fixed both of them and now she starts a whole lot better.
k_enn
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If the battery is good, check the starter relay. Make sure all of the connections are bright and shiny.
Understanding electricity and electrical circuits was the most difficult part of mechanics for me. Figuring out mechanical things came easily, but not electrics. And I think that's common considering every used vehicle I've gotten has buggered up electrics in one way or another.
Multimeters are cheap - for under ten bucks a little one from Harbor Freight or Radio Shack will work just fine. The two quantities you'll measure the most are resistance and voltage.
The sooner you jump on the learning curve, the sooner it'll all make sense. ;)
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Just got the Battery Tender Jr. And I can get a volt meter. Clymer manual gets here next week.
I may try push-starting it again today, but it sounds like when the battery dies you can't really charge it all the way by riding.
Thanks for the help everyone.
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It'll take a ride to the north country and back to get any kind of decent charge into it. Have you figured out how to get electricity to the starter to charge it?
And don't take chances with the charging system! Don't over-tax it. What I mean by that, is don't make it work any more than it has to. Keep its work load light. Recharging a half (or completely) discharged battery is making the alternator work hard. Another thing that's tough on these alternators is sudden changes in RPM. Reason being is the rotor is a bunch of copper wire wrapped around a steel core, spun off the end of the crankshaft. Changes in inertia will loosen those windings eventually causing them to either short out, or break resulting in an open circuit. Either case = no electricity. So take it easy on sudden acceleration or deceleration.
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Wow, thanks for the info! My battery tender arrives in the mail today. Hopefully I have not caused any damage to the bike yet, and hopefully the battery is salvageable.
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So, I removed the battery and have it charging. I didn't test the volts at the beginning, but after ~4hrs it was 6.5V and now it's 12.6V. Battery Tender has not started blinking green yet.
[IMG width="800" height="600]http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh587/ddebonis/2012-06-29133638.jpg[/IMG]
I had a questions about the wiring and reinstalling the battery safely.
First, see the pictures. It appears the ground is coming from the Negative side.
[IMG width="600" height="800"]http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh587/ddebonis/2012-06-29174530.jpg[/IMG]
The positive side has two wires that were attached to it; each leads under the tank to the electronics. What are each of these?
[IMG width="800" height="600"]http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh587/ddebonis/2012-06-29174506.jpg[/IMG]
Second, how do I install the battery safely? Connect negative side, then positive? And try not to touch both terminals are the same time? ;)
-Danny
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The two wires on the positive terminal of the battery, the smaller of the two, supplies power to all of the circuits on the bike, except for the starter .
The large diameter cable, provides power to operate the starter, it is also the power supply from the alternator, the power from the alternator goes to a terminal on the starter, this same terminal has the large diameter cable from the battery on it, when the starter isn't being used, the power from the alternator gets to the battery and the other circuits on the bike through the large diameter cable .
This connection is often forgotten, as it is hidden on the starter, it can get corrosion and cause charging system issues .
It's best to connect the positive wires to the battery first, then the negative .
If you've ever wondered why it's not a great thing to have sparks around a battery, when a battery charges, or discharges, it releases hydrogen and oxygen gas, which are combustible, liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen, are used as rocket fuel .
If you've ever witnessed a battery explosion, you would have great respect for the potential hazard it has !!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o
Also, from your picture, the rubber boot that covers the speedometer drive cable as it goes into the transmission, needs to be replaced, when it gets weathered and cracked like yours is, it allows water into the transmission, not a good thing !!!
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If the battery was at 6.5 volts after ~4 hours on the charger, it had been excessively discharged. Keep an eye on the battery for the next week or so - sometimes they bounce back from such a discharge and hold a charge ok, sometimes they don't.
k_enn
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Always connect positive side first because then it won't matter if you accidentally short the positive connection to the frame with the spanner or screwdriver.
6.5 volts after 4 Hours !! That's very unusual although it sounds like it's an automatic charger of some sort and some of those behave oddly and are reluctant to start charging a completed dead battery. Expect the charge voltage to rise to 14 - 14.4 volts before it's fully charged.
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Keep in mind, it does start on the 1st or 2nd try most of the time...
It takes a little practice to start the R65. My LS needs a crack of throttle to start on warm days. A little choke on cool days but always a little throttle. If you don't open the throttle it won't start.
Also close the fuel shut off valve. Flooded carbs and cylinder heads take longer to start. Use the center stand as much as possible. Once you get some practice you can save a lot of starter motor effort and battery energy.
Remember what Barry commented at the beginning of the thread: A properly adjusted idle speed will cause the engine to idle too slow when cold. It tends to stall. Bear with it for the first minute using the throttle, then enjoy.
Congratulations on your R65 it looks really neat.
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Welcome to the herd, Danny.
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Do you have a larger picture of your seat? It looks very nice.
Darn. I'll blame my browser for that. :-[
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Thanks for all your help. Yes, I used an automatic charger. It took overnight to fully charge the battery. I installed it back in the bike without any explosions and went for a ride around town. I'll monitor the battery and may have to figure out how to park it close enough to an outlet to charge the battery without taking it out. I'll start investigating other reasons why the battery may not be charging.
QUESTION: Should I put grease on the battery terminals to prevent corrosion? If so, which kind?
Do you have a larger picture of your seat? It looks very nice.
I'll take more pictures and post here. It's a Corbin seat. I've yet to find another R65 with the same seat.
-Danny
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QUESTION: Should I put grease on the battery terminals to prevent corrosion? If so, which kind?
Yes dielectric grease is ideal but vaseline will also work.
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You listed oil leakage from your transmission in your original post. Don't know if you have addressed that yet, but FWIW, I experienced an oil leak from the tranny on my '84 and traced it to the neutral indicator switch. I had to pull the tranny to replace it, but it worked.
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decorn33 I have not gotten to the oil leak yet, but thanks for the info.
I am currently working on my buggy turn signal -- look at technical forum for my post about that shortly ("Turn Signal Saga").
Julio A. here are some pictures of my seat you requested.
[IMG width="800" height="600"]http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh587/ddebonis/2012-07-06193651.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG width="800" height="600"]http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh587/ddebonis/2012-07-06193712.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG width="800" height="600"]http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh587/ddebonis/2012-07-06193722.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG width="600" height="800"]http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh587/ddebonis/2012-07-06193702.jpg[/IMG]