The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
General Category => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Mike V on June 24, 2010, 08:45:56 AM
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Another failed day at the DMV yesterday guys. I'm still steaming from the beaurocratic quagmire this state drags us through. I reported earlier about the abscence of the Fed EPA sticker on my bike that is supposed to reside on the lower right frame rail. It was originally thought I could order one from BMW NA. They have since notified us that it can't be done since the bike has been out of the system for so long. My VIN verification went effortlessly yesterday and all was well until I entered the doors of the DMV only to have the delightful, loving, bubbly, vivacious, and happy woman behind the counter tell me without the sticker the bike cannot be registered. Maybe they will accept a PhotoShop rendition of another sticker?! It would be nice to reason this whole ridiculous thing to help me understand the state's guidelines and concerns. My next project is to take the bike to the CHP for number plate verification. You guys doing restorations...always fill out a non-op and by all means try to never destroy the EPA sticker on the frame. This all makes absolutely no sense to me. >:( >:( >:(
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I put the blame squarely on BMW for this, as with most of the bikes of this era, the frame sticker is the only place where the entire 17 character VIN is placed .
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And the sticker is made of very fragile stuff, and located in an area where it is prone to getting damaged. Fortunately, not all states are as messed up as Kalifornia - I would never willingly move/live there.
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frame sticker is the only place where the entire 17 character VIN is placed .
This seems to be another problem with the CA DMV, apparently there was a transition from 7 to 17 digit VIN's in this era (79-80) and DMV seems to have problems recognizing the 7 digit VIN only because they can't find it in their system ... regardless of the original matching stampings in the frame gusset and engine case. And this sticker is supposed to state that the bike is safe to operate and meets emission and safety standards, as the existing fender sticker states. You guys have no idea what i've gone through with these people and the obsurdity of failed attempts.
It's not like the bike is stolen, modified or tampered with or without title, and the 7 digit VIN matches on the title - pink. I'm just trying to get the bike legally registered. No good deed goes unpunished in CA. I hate this state for many reasons. What's the cost of palm trees, infiltration of illegals and nice weather?
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I would never knowingly or willingly suggest doing anything that would be illegal, but allow me a stream of consciousness moment. Seems like it's just really easy for illegals in this country to get documents like SSAN cards, passports, insurance cards, and drivers license. Wonder where these folks get the documents? Hmmm, you're not too far away from San Diego are you? If memory serves Tijuana is right across the border.
Again, I'm just musing here.....
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Unfortunately this VIN situation is common in many states, particularly with cases in which the motorcycle is the right age (1980 model year or later) to have the 17-digit VIN instead of the 7-digit serial number on the title/registration, but some doofus put the 7 digit number into the system instead of the 17 digit one. I've had to deal with that problem both in MA and in VT. I would hold the MA DMV right up there with the CA DMV when it comes to "sources of extreme aggravation" any day.
I recall when I moved to MA, I had to take the written exams for both auto and motorcycle licensing, but didn't have to take the driving tests as I'd already been licensed to operate all these things in another state. I took both tests and got a perfect score, and waited in line for 45 minutes to get my shiny new license with motorcycle endorsement. I got to the front of the line, and they wouldn't let me get my license until after the full time limit (which was apparently 2 hours) had expired for taking the written tests... apparently if you know the answers and finish early you still had to wait until the maximum test time set in the system elapsed before they'd accept and issue new licenses. This was just one of the many, many silly things in the Massachusetts DMV back in the 90s..
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I have an '81 R100, BMW really "screwed the pooch" with these foil stickers on the frame in 1981 and numerous forums have griped about it.
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Someone needs to go into the business of reproducing these - not unlike your Photoshop idea, Mike.
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if I would have known at the beginning of this process what I know now Rob...it would have been well worth the cost of the PhotoShop software. Furthermore; I would have slept quite well at night. And had a legal, safe, and environmental efficient bike that meets all the required Federal and State standards. Warranted, supported and indemnified by a simple sticker that is no longer available by the factory.
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Mike, just a thought, I wonder if a local decal shop could reproduce a sticker that the MVD would not know the difference from an OEM sticker .
If someone can provide a good photo of the their sticker, then make it up with your VIN .
Just a wild idea !!!!
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Bob,
That's an idea I've thought of already - was thinking about sending out an SOS to all the 81 r65 owners asking for a clear photo with equal aspect ratio. The local dealer is going to have BMW send a later model 650 EPA sticker that has the same statement and include a letter for me to take to the CHP. Since the paperwork is already procured with the missing sticker information, I'll hand carry the sticker, dealer VIN purchase record and letter to the DMV. I like the idea of making these photo stickers up and printing them out on ahesive mylar or high quality media.
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Whoops....I just checked my '79 frame. Before I had it powder-coated there was a sticker on it and a plate riveted to it. The plate is still there and the sticker is gone. The plate has the frame number on it.
Would this sticker have been the VIN sticker?
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Can you talk to a motorcycle wreckers? or contact a wreckers in a country without the same laws?
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Mike, if you find a way to resolve this let me know. I'm assuming that it was the VIN sticker that went bye bye on my bike when the frame was powder coated.
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This may be a stupid question, but was the bike previously registered in California? If so, the fact that it was so registered should establish that one time it had the necessary sticker. If California DMV has a record of a prior registration of the bike, they are just being arbitrary and unreasonable in denying registration now, especially if they do not have any regulatory process for the registration of vehicles with lost/destroyed stickers. I don't think a court, even a California court, would look too kindly on their refusal under those circumstances.
k_enn
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k_enn,
There are no stupid questions when dealing with the DMV. I'll keep you all posted on the status of my efforts with this since I feel it's of importance to try and never get to this point. But to answer your question; yes the bike has been previously registered in CA. I've completed the VIN Verification process (form REG 343). The hangup now seems to be the missing EPA sticker that is placed on the frame. I believe it only states the vehicle meets all emissions and safety requirements to be operated in US and CA. This sticker also has the VIN punched in it. I'm now scheduled to go to the CHP inspection station to have a "Application For Assigned Vehicle Identification Number Plate" (REG124) prepared. The DMV has no record of the bike, which I've found out from reliable sources is because of the old 7 digit VIN instead of the 17 digit that started sometime around 1980. Victim of circumstance? Everyone scratching their heads? Me too. The bike's VIN matches on the frame, engine case and pink slip. This was all started because I did not file a non-op on the bike. Still scratching your head? So while I admit partial blame, the result is beyond ridiculous and a product of the bureaucratic system that makes no sense to me. Is the bike a safety threat? An ecological threat? A security threat? Or, just a means of additional revenue for the state?
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Mike,
My 1981 R65 has two (2) silver stickers on the frame rail. I will attempt to get some tight snaps with my digital and PM them to you sometime today, Monday, 28 June.
Me? I'd be making up some good repros. Most gubment workers just need to fill in the blank spaces and move on to their next break period, doncha know. ;)
Monte
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Monte,
Thanks! I would appreciate that. Two stickers? All I know of is the EPA sticker on the lower right frame rail. Any good quality photos would be appreciated. Do you have any stickers/badges on the frame steering neck gussets? I thought of the reproduction direction but too late after the cat was out of the bag. Too far into the process now. Like I said before; if I knew then what I know now, I would have done a PhotoShop reproduction. Unbelievable a freaking sticker would cause all this problem.
Monte, home email is: mvtv@cox.net.
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Good grief --- and I thought our British vehicle bureaucracy was bad! I didn't know I was born, did I? I feel for you Californians......btw the foil sticker does not exist here.
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Tomorrow's the big day at the CHP inspection station...could they actually make this any more complicated? Anyone taking bets if I get my REG124 Application For Assigned Vehicle Identification Number Plate gets filled out? Step 8 of 9, 5 months and counting. Next roll of the dice is when the REG124 is completed - I need to take it BACK to DMV for sprinkling of Holy Water while burning incense.
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Don't forget to put a TPS Report cover sheet on it, too! :D
(Sorry, soemone just gave me a copy of "Office Space", and I couldn't resist)
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I had to look that one up.
:-?
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I really feel for our Brethren that live in the "Peoples Republic of California"... When I did my '81 R100RT the sticker was pretty ratty so the inspection guy looked at the neck gusset and verified most of the numbers were there and called it good!
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I really feel for our Brethren that live in the "Peoples Republic of California"... When I did my '81 R100RT the sticker was pretty ratty so the inspection guy looked at the neck gusset and verified most of the numbers were there and called it good!
Little Mister Sunshine today here in Chit-Chat, aren't we, Justin?
You up, Mike V?
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Yep! I'm up Monte. Just back from CHP, success with the REG124 form and inspection. The inspector looked at the bike, looked at my stack of paperwork, turned to me with a puzzling look on his face and asked; "Why did the DMV send you here?!" I held my tongue, with both hands. >:( >:( >:(
Last step is another enjoyable trip to the confines of the DMV next week. I'll go to church this Sunday just in case.
As a sidenote, the CHP inspector informed me during our chat the CHP has just signed a new contract with Kawasaki. Fill in the blanks.
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As a sidenote, the CHP inspector informed me during our chat the CHP has just signed a new contract with Kawasaki.
I guess that means no more cheap R1xxx-RTP bikes on flea-Bay after the current supply runs out?
Mike, glad you got it all sorted. Sometimes DMV people (or low level government bureaucrats in general) seem to take their little bit of power seriously and enjoy making people jump through all kinds of hoops. I personally feel it's to compensate for their feelings of worthlessness and general state of mental funk. I feel they look at their "customers" as people who probably think they are better than them so they go out of their way to make whatever they are trying to do as painful as possible. I will leave the probable political correlations out of this analysis... ;)
How's that for "cheery", Monte? [smiley=ROTFLMAO.gif]
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I guess that means no more cheap R1xxx-RTP bikes on flea-Bay after the current supply runs out?
We're still selling them here in NC...just put the City of Raleigh on 9 R1200RTPs. Plus the NC State Highway Patrol has 9 (or 10?) R1200RTPs. We've sold to a few other municipalities as well.
Mike - I hope your next trip to DMV is your last! Good luck with it.
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I'm raising a shot of Bushmills in celebration to all of your help and emotional support. It's done - success at last. I now have a plate with tags. Waiting for my new pink slip.
[size=16]Success!!![/size]
I'm mounting that puppy and going for a ride in the morning.
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[smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=clap.gif] [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] [smiley=beerchug.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
Yippee!! Celebrate!! Have a great ride on the bike!
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Congratulations Mike! It always feels good to overcome the red tape and frustrations of the gummint. And you did it legallly!
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Congratulations Mike!... you did it legallly!
So what fun it that? [smiley=cool.gif]
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Good point Monte, doing it the legal and honest way did me no favors at all.