The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
General Category => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: proctorls on May 06, 2010, 09:35:41 AM
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Hi all,
My neighbor (much to the dismay of his wife) has given his son a Ninja 250 for a college graduation gift. The lad has never owned a bike, and I fear for his safety. My question: What can I say or do to increase the chances of the boy surviving his first six months on two wheels?
I lent him my copy of Larry Grodsky's STAYIN' SAFE, and I'm thinking of offereing to do a few "training" rides with him.
Have any members encountered this situation? Anyone have any suggestions?
Steve in VT
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Make sure that he follows the "All the gear, all the time" philosophy - even (especially!) for those short runs down to the corner store. Make sure that he does at least have proper gloves, jacket, helmet, and at least sturdy shoes to wear if not motorcycle-specific boots. If at the very least you encourage him to wear jeans/long pants if not motorcycle-pants instead of riding around in shorts that would also be good.
Books and videos are OK, but I think that being able to ride and learn from more experienced riders may make a bigger/better impression.
There are some MSF courses offered in VT - I was once starting to become an instructor there long ago - make sure his dad springs for a course - and if he isn't sure, perhaps you could offer to also take it with him. Spend some Sunday afternoons with him in an empty store parking lot practicing low speed maneuvers, figures eights, weaves, avoiding obstacles, quick stops, etc.
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turn him on to the ADVriders forum. There's a lot of jackass's on there (Me!) but there's also a lot of smart thoughtful folks. In the 'perfect line' section there's often a thread relating to new riders and there's even a sticky on the subject. I'd say the over all ethos of the site is pro ATGATT, respect for motorcycles, and a anti-knucklehead-itness.
Also, in the 'roadwarrior' section, there's a active thread on the ninja 250. There's much love for that bike. Maybe he'll grow to understand that the ninja 250 isn't a 'beginner bike' and that bigger isn't always better.
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Everything that NHMAF said!
I think it extrordinary that beginner riders wear shorts and T shirts while the experienced riders doing Irom Butt rides dress in full protective gear. The investment in good gear is even more important for a new rider.
Don't say full gear is too hot - Brosh, First Gear and numerous other companies make ventilated jackets and pants that let the air flow through. Over 20 mph and it is like you are not wearing it at all.
Safety courses - gotta have them. You can be riding for 20 years but if you don't learn it is like repeating first grade 20 times!
Practice, and then practice some more. We were out last weekend doing figure eights and weaves in the parking lot. If you don't have small cones to mark the lanes use tennis balls cut in half. Practice turns from a stop (easy if you lean the bike in the direction you want to go before you start).
Pick some rural roads that will form a loop ride of about 5 minutes. Have him follow you and show him the correct points to down shift for a turn and how to positiion in a lane. Repeat the ride several times and critique the rights and wrongs - follow him around the loop and critique again. The reason for the loop is so there are no surprises - you know the road after a few times and can concentrate on skills rather than wondering what is around the next turn.
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Helmet,gloves and Leathers.Once he feel the thrill os speed you can't do anything.MSF is great.Books and DVDs will not help much because all of the idiots on the road doing wheelies and so.Do not forget all the talking will be done before the ride.After that-Pray and do not blame yourself if something happens.Almost lost a friend last week(54+ years old)everyting happened I front of me.Good luck.I hope your friend is smart enough and will listen to you 'cause mine did not
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Here is a thought -- when I was learning to ride back in the 80's there were two interesting statistics. One was that on average a rider will have one crash/accident every 10 years. Not too scary. But here is the second statistic I heard back then -- 90% of all motorcycle accidents involve riders with less than a year's experience. Combine those two (I am not sure if it is statistically correct to do so, but it does not matter because the purpose is to get the new rider to think safety), and it become pretty apparent there is a pretty high chance of having your statistically 1 in 10 year accident/crash in your first year. Thus, safety (gear, learning proper technique, keeping a proper lookout at all times, always have multiple "escape routes" when in traffic, etc.) may tend to take on more importance in the mind of the newbie.
Also, as has already been said -- learn from qualified instructors. There are just so many things a new rider does not know and needs to know. For example, riding in the rain (which will happen to everyone sooner or later) requires some knowledge and finesse. Thankfully, I took a lesson on a rainy day -- and I am sure it has saved my butt a few times.
If he won't go to MSF or other formal instruction, then try to mentor him on a few rides. I value learning "on-street and in traffic" survival more than slow speed parking lot work. Generally, the worst that will happen if you haven't practiced the parking lot stuff is you might drop your bike. If you have not learned to survive on the street and in traffic, you can get killed.
Also, if you can find some "motorcycle meets car" pictures on the internet, you may want to show him what happens. I have seen the aftermath of such encounters (both in real life and in pictures). The motorcyclist aways looses, and often it is not pretty. This may help impress the newbie to be more safety oriented.
Just my two cents. YMMV
k_enn
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I can say that I did have an accident in about ~1 year of starting to ride on the street. The incentive is definite to wear your protective gear to minimize the damage/risk when it happens, and to ride safely&smartly to ensure that you can handle the situation/mitigate the damage, if any that results from the accident. Encourage him to keep his head clear and his eyes ever alert, and assume that no one can see him.
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Sign him up for a certified MSF rider course. Even though he's a fresh college grad and now knows everything, he will need encouragement as to what safety gear to wear; as in ATGATT.
As a young, snot-nosed new rider, my now long dead dad took me to Parkland Hospital's ER (Dallas) on a Saturday night and made me sit in the receiving area for a few hours. I saw a motorcyclist die on the gurney as they wheeled him in. That did it for me. You'll either wear the gear or ride the gurney.
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yes, the Motorcycle safety course is the way to go. I took mine at a community collage with my wife and we had a blast. she wasn't really all that interested in riding, but even she enjoyed it and to this day says it made her a better (cage) driver. there is no downside to the motorcycle safety course.
I think what I was getting at with the ADVriders recommendation, was that it's important to find a community of riders with the right attitude about riding. Esp. for young folks. Motorcycles aren't toys. Your not in a movie. Just tonight I ate at a out door restaurant next to a main drag in my small town. lot's of motorcycle cruising. I must have seen 10 stretched sports bikes with teen or early 20's, riders. ATGATT to them ment they had a t-shirt on with their shorts. No joke. There is another way.
Of course I might be making assumptions about this person. They might be a level headed person.
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I am not sure if he is of drinking age and I don't advocate drinking and riding -------- but another good piece of advice is, if you are going to drink, limit yourself to one light beer. That way you are sure to be on the safe side.
k_enn
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After over 50 years and many, many miles on motorcycles, I find myself wondering if your neighbour's son will have be most safe if he does not have an aggressive or competitive personality. I don't think I ever did - it probably made me a pretty dull young man but I'm still around, unlike many others who liked matching their strong right wrists.
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Thanks to all who have replied with suggestions so far. I've been watching the lad practicing around the neighborhood, and I can see he already needs a dope slap (okay, coaching and counseling session). He's using his helmet - mandated in VT - but he's wearing shorts and athletic shoes. I've got my work cut out for me. I don't want to come off as an anal old geezer, but I think my first foray will be to suggest he google ATGATT. After that, maybe some short rides. I thought I'd shoot some video to show him after the ride.
Again, thanks for the tips. Many good ideas to work with. Now if the rain will just stop.
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IF nothing else somewhere on the internet is a website of a very unfortuante youg woman who fell off the back of her boyfriend's motorcycle wearing essentially a sweatsuit (but a helmet at least). She was/is a motorcyclist, and knew better, but opted not to wear the proper gear at that time. The terrible story she tells and the pictures of her scars and numerous operations to try to graft skin might be a convincing argument. I wont go into the gory details here.
Even when I had my fairly 'benign' low side spill after riding on the streets for about 1 year, I was wearing leather jacket, helmet, gloves, boots and jeans. I had a bruised shoulder and abraded helmet, but where my jeans had been sliding on the pavement while pinned under the bike were completely shredded, and I lost a patch of skin as big as my palm on the side of my knee - which was also swollen to the size of 2 grapefruits. I'd hate to think of what would be there-or not-if I were wearing less. Sometimes the scary stories serve a useful purpose - like the old "scared stright" treatment for juveniles..
OK, here is the link to the infamous 'road rash girl's" story - and trust me, it isn't pretty, but perhaps if you get this young man to read it, he will understand ATGATT:
http://sportbike.natkd.com/road_rash.htm
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Hi Steve,
Tell him to sign up here and we will take him under the wing!!!!!!
Tell him to ask his questions and that there are no dumb questions.
This advise worth 2 cts.
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I still consider myself quite the motorcycle newbie so I don't have much advice, other than recommend him the MSF course. I've been riding almost 3 years now and I'm pretty sure (even though I'm far from a show-boater) that I would've had an accident without the course.
I'm currently looking around in my area for the Intermediate and Advanced courses, too. I want to actually polish the skills on the r65, not the Honda Rebel.
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When i was at college (many moons ago) i had my C15 having been through the learning curve on mopeds scooters and dirt bikes, One of my room mates had a small Honda we used to ride together regularly another one (Dave) went out and bought a brand new yammy RD250 crotch rocket even though he had never ridden before and in 1973 the learner restriction was 250cc not hp.His plan was to ride with us.
Less than 15 miles on the clock he ran into the back of my mate Andy then into the side of a car he did the sensible thing...got it repaired and sold it.(fortunately no serious injuries)
The moral of this tail is learn to walk before you run i do hope this kid listens to your advice.
Lou
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You should never stop learning! I remember the vivid scenes they showed in the MSF class I took. I had already experienced my bad one and couldn't handle it - had to get up and leave. But I stayed for the driving portion and learned a thing or two.
This Saturday I'm taking another class to work on my skills and I've been riding for over 20 years. This time it's with a motor officer learning some of those great police slow speed maneuvering skills! Here's the write-up... http://www.motomark1.com/pms.html and even better - this time it's a Ladies Only Class! ;D
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Good for you Aïda. That will be a great class.
I knew when I first took the MSF course that it was just barely enough to get me on the road and that this was going to be a continuous learning experience. Little did I know just how much learning! Or how much fun it would be. ;D
I would suggest the MSF course to anyone just starting out riding. You get to learn in a fairly safe environment (hey, that pavement is still hard!!) without having to learn the hard way (ouch! [smiley=wall.gif] ) from people who have been doing it.
Here in California they make the decision easier because when you pass the course and get your card you don't have to take the driving part of the test at DMV, just the written part.
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His father should have never bought him that kind of bike in the first
place, knowning his son has no riding experince on the road. But it
also comes down to the person twisting the throttle & i hate to say it
but he has't started out well (riding up & down the road with no gear
on), & where was his father when he was riding around without the
gear on?
When i first started riding my old man drummed it into me about
safety gear, he even gave me his old leather jacket which i wore for
8yrs before i bought a new one. My first bike was a Kawa 250cc road
trail, great bike to learn the skills of roadcraft, 2nd was the mighty
R65 (which i bought of the old man) & i was scared of it's 'bigness', engine size, weight etc, but the old man said "just take it easy".
Just hope your neighbour 'takes it easy'.
Good luck mate.
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Steve, like you I would be concerned, and all of the comments are all valid, but I would also counsel not to take ownership of the lad's training. If the worst happens it could sure make you feel bad.
Probably the best thing would be to encourage him to hook up with a responsible group of riders he can relate to. It would be like giving a young man a guitar because you like to play bluegrass but the kids probably going to want to play rock and roll.
The ADV suggestion might just appeal to him. What young man doesn't want to get out on his own and see the world? What better way to do it than on a motorcycle? My two cents.
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Btw - For the record I advocate NO BEER before riding. Not even one!
You have no idea when you will need that last 1 percent of ability to safely seperate your butt from a dangerous circumstance. God picks the oddest times to test our faith.
ATGATT and NO BEER! 8-)
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I'm currently looking around in my area for the Intermediate and Advanced courses, too. I want to actually polish the skills on the r65, not the Honda Rebel.
+1 on that! Before I took the MSF course, I had thoughts of buying a rice mill of ~250cc, but the school-owned Rebels cured me of that. I absolutely hated the Rebels' zero-resistance throttle controls, which the instructors (nice folks, but all Harvey Davis people, BTW) said was normal for the bikes. Took me nearly the entire course to master the flaky throttle, but I managed to pass the course, essentially by locking my right wrist and controlling the throttle from forearm and shoulder position during slow-speed maneuvers.
Interestingly, the local MSF school permits BRC students to use their own bikes, if they have them. A possible explanation is that the military locally requires cyclists to repeat the BRC each time they renew their on-base registrations. (I don't know whether the bureaucracy will accept an ERC certificate instead; would not be surprised if the answer is, "No." :-? )
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As far as I know, the MSF course given by the local community college (where I got my license) expects riders to have their own bikes for the Intermediate and Advanced classes. The Beginner classes all have 250cc Hondas (mostly Rebels but I saw a Nighthawk or two).
In my area, looks like the only Intermediate class is in Sierra Vista, Az, a military town about 80-miles away... through some really great rolling wine-country. (Yes, we DO have wine country here. ;) ) Might be a fun day-trip!
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....one small but important little hint that just may save him from an accident...when watching a car to see if it is about to move, look at the wheels, not the car, the wheels move before the car is seen to move, that second may be all you need....