The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Jon_P on January 13, 2008, 04:41:57 PM
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ok i'm a little stumped :-?
i read my book and it said to remove the nut and then press the shaft out. my problem is a dont see a nut on the end of the drive shaft. there is a fastener that has some small splines and what looks like a snap ring. is it just a snap ring holding it in? then press it out? a special tool?
come on rob i know you have a pix of this ;D
i need to remove it so i can weld to the swing arm and then strip for powder coat.
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Well, I don't remember what year bike you have, and I think the pre '81 model year it may be a different procedure, but here it is for the 'cush driveshaft'.
You need to remove the swingarm from the bike.
Then remove the swingarm from the final drive, remove the 4-12 point nuts.
You need a fixture similar to the spring compression tool used to dis-assemble McPherson struts in cages.
I think I've seen homemade tools that were just 2 plates of steel, and 2 threaded rods with nuts.
You have to compress the spring in the drive shaft to get to a wire circlip, I believe it's at the end that mates to the final drive.
After you get the circlip out , relax the pressure on the driveshaft, by loosening the nuts, and it should come right out.
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Sorry Jon, I have never had my drive shaft out...
Nor have I ever helped remove one.
As far as the early R65's being different from the later ones, I don't think so. The R65/45 was also the test-bed for the spring cush drive on the driveshaft.
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Rob,
You're right, I just found my manual, and it is the same procedure for the earlier model year R65's.
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thanks for the direction, looks like i will be building a new tool to do this. i will make sure to take pixs along with a materials list of what i used. then i will post a how to on getting the bugger out.
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I made one using a couple of 10" by 1 1/2" by 1/2" pieces of wood, one for either end of the drive shaft. I then drilled holes to connect them together with some studding with nuts on either end of the pieces of wood to compress the shaft. You need to drill a whole in the top batten to get access to the snap ring.
did not take long.....
Steve H
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pretty much what i was thinking, couple of pieces of all thread, couple pieces of flat stock with a hole punched in with the plasma cutter and bam! new tool.
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I whimped out on this one and had Dean at Boxerworks do it for me. At the time I was in a hurry. 8-)
I removed the swing arm and unscrewed the final drive from the swingarm and took the assembly to him. Best 20 bucks I ever spent!
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Plasma cutter, Jon ?!? Some guys have all the neat toys.... :'(
One of my clients is a mfgr of plasma cutters - but I don't do enough metal work to justify buying one..
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i'm the service manager at a lp and fuel oil truck maintance shop, we also build them for customers. pretty much have what ever i need.
my dad used to work for miller electric also so he had a huge discount so i have a small plasma cutter at home, only cuts up to 3/8", the one i have at work cuts up to a 1 inch!!!
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My R65's driveshaft has been changed quite recently - by a local retired Bmw mechanic, who worked on Bmw motorcycles all his life. He told me that the universal joint failure on my bike was due to the poor condition of the oil inside the swingarm.
According to this retired mechanic, the swingarm oil should always be changed, during normal services. I must admit - I have never changed the swingarm oil before, and it really was in a poor condition.
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..........However, personally I think changing the swingarm oil at every normal service, could be a bit of a "over kill" . When I changed my bike's swingarm oil at the first service (5000 km) - since the advice, the oil was still in a very good condition.
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I have always change final drive oil, drive shaft oil and transmission every 10,000 or once a year. Same with fork oil. Lube Transmission splines every 10,000/once a year or anytime transmission is removed. Lube wheel bearing and apply grease to final drive splines once and year or anytime the wheels are removed.
Don
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ok i am missing something? :-? i made my new compressor tool and it didnt move one bit :-? i have a call in with a shop. have to wait to see what i am doing wrong
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Is there any way that you can post a pic of your device and the swingarm ? It may be hard to tell what you might be doing wrong without some sort of visual assistance..
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ok! i got it. my biggest problem was my home made press needed to be made a little better. i started with 1/2" plates and with the holes i was to weak and bent a little. so a couple pieces of channel, some welds and new holes cut and drilled. i took pixs of everything so i will get them loaded onto photobucket and do a whole write up on what i made and how it comes apart for others.
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Thanks, Jon. I think I need to get my U-joint replaced...
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..........However, personally I think changing the swingarm oil at every normal service, could be a bit of a "over kill" . When I changed my bike's swingarm oil at the first service (5000 km) - since the advice, the oil was still in a very good condition.
Mine gets changed twice a year as I switch oil grades from winter to summer. I consider this essential preventive maintenance that allows me to detect real trouble early (Water in the tranny, drive shaft, rear end) and to fix it before I have much worse problems. Latte colored oil = Water degredation.
A couple of years ago my final drive oil came out "black" during one of these seasonal changes. I realized that I was pushing grease (and dirt) from the final drive spine past the seal into the final drive when putting the rear wheel back on. Twice a year - Yesh!
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I don't know if this would be worth the effort or not, but if you have a good drive train repair shop near you, that replaces universal joints for automotive applications, it may be a more cost effective approach to replacing the universal joint itself, rather than replacing the whole 'propellor shaft' ( that's the term that is used by BMW ).
I found this out after I replaced mine about 8 years ago.
I inquired at a local 'mom and pop' repair shop near me, and was given a price quote of $40, that included the universal joint and labor charge.
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Heck no I am not buying a whole new shaft!
(this has been on my mind for some time)
But it is a good heads-up for those that do not know.
The universal joint is not 'easily replaceable' like they are on automobile driveshafts.
BMW recommends replacing the whole shaft...
There are places that advertise in The Airmail for this service.
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About the only thing that may be a bit difficult, is to remove the 'staked' metal that holds the universal joint in, after that, you can press out the old universal joint with a common arbor press, and a couple of sockets.
I've been told that the universal joint bathed in gear oil, should not have any issues for a long time, a lot longer than you get out of the OEM universal joint.
The joint design isn't the most robust.
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rob if you need my press let me know, i should be able to fit it in a usps flat rate box and send it to you. then you hold on to it till the the next member here needs it, kind of a open forum tool???
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Any chance of posting close pics of the press ?
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i will get them posted up when i get home, work has a block on photobucket so i cant get the links i need to post the pixs.
its real simple, two 3 inch steel channels that are cut to about 4 inches long, a couple of all thread with some nuts and washers. in the two i drilled two 5/8 holes for the all thread about three inches apart in the center and then the one i cut a 1 3/4" inch hole to dig out the snap ring.
it will make a alot more sense when i post the pixs.
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Thanks - it will be appreciated
I am not convinced that the second hand repacement sideshaft in my bike will last forever......
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Correction - driveshaft in my bike - not "sideshaft"
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Correction - driveshaft in my bike - not "sideshaft"
Danie,
You may go back and edit your posts. Just click on "Modify" in the upper right hand corner of the post you want to correct!
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rob if you need my press let me know, i should be able to fit it in a usps flat rate box and send it to you. then you hold on to it till the the next member here needs it, kind of a open forum tool???
I will keep that in mind, Jon.
But with postal rates these days, it may be cheaper to make one. :(
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dont worry about the shipping cost. like i said i can ship it in a usps flat rate box for like $8. $8 isnt anything i would lose sleep over, so if you want it send me your address.
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We can wait until I am ready to do the work. Right now, I don't want to touch any of my tools! If I licked my socket wrench, my tongue might stick to it! :P
So if anyone else wants to use it before me, that is fine!
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About the only thing that may be a bit difficult, is to remove the 'staked' metal that holds the universal joint in, after that, you can press out the old universal joint with a common arbor press, and a couple of sockets.
I've been told that the universal joint bathed in gear oil, should not have any issues for a long time, a lot longer than you get out of the OEM universal joint.
The joint design isn't the most robust.
I was able to watch as the driveshaft I got for the 90 had its UJ replaced a while back. It wasn't rocket science but care must be exercised for it to be successful.
The Uj's specifications for auto use is, believe it or not, for the steering column into the steering box on some cars!! However reliability etc doesn't seem to be an issue as they get plenty of miles out of them, if not as much as stock. In fact, I've seen some stock staking allow the joint cups to drift outward, that can't happen the way the cups are held in when replaced.
I was so confident after seeing how it was done I wanted to try for myself, so I bought a cheap shaft off ebay and gave it a go. After confirming on V blocks the shaft was straight, I Dremelled the staking off all four joints, then drove the cups out from the inside out. This left the spider that took a few seconds (like wire puzzles) to figure how it would release from the ends.Remove the cups from the new spider and install in the ends, gently push in the cups from all four sides with G cramps till they meet a few mm before taking up any sideway slop.
At this point a 4 jaw chuck in a lathe helped with centreing, pressing in the cups till all play was gone and the shaft ran true (very important). I then made some washers up that sat in the spaces on top of the cups, and larger washers that sat on them. The smaller inner washers can safely be a few 10ths of a mm thicker than the depth of the cup hollows as the larger washers will be placed on top of these and then they are MIG'ed at a few points around, holding everything in place. A little grinding of the larger washer is needed to ensure good clearances in the swingarm.
The latter MIGing is all I have to get done to finish the job, but I foresee no problems at this stage as all swivels free with no notches, just like a bought one!! The joint also came packed with grease, which I left in as it couldn't hurt, and I could have even fitted a grease nipple supplied with the joint, but instead I left off to allow oil to enter the hole when running.
Bill.....................;-)
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Bill, did you get a manufacturer and part number for the aftermarket joint? We really should start our own list of verified proven replacement parts such as bulbs, bearings, seals, etc. If anybody has researched a part alternate, purchased it, and confirmed that it is a plug-and-play substitute e-mail me the particulars and I will start a read-only post with this information, giving credit where credit is due, and adding new parts to the list as they are submitted. I will also post this last sentence under a new post to get more exposure.