The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: TomHoldom on September 24, 2018, 11:39:06 AM
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OK here goes; I'm pretty much a novice so please excuse my ignorance.
I have a 1978 R65 which I bought around 20 years ago, used on and off for 10 years, then left for 10 years (undercover) and now am getting going again.
Battery obviously dead, but a friend hooked it up to their car and managed to get the engine to splutter back to life.
So I'm looking for advice on my next moves...
Oil change:
Before I do much else I was planning to change the oils
engine / gearbox / driveshaft / rear bevel ?
Currently with no battery not so easy to get the oil warm, can I do this with a cold engine?
Any advice on which oils?
Planning to buy the motobins oil filter exchange kit (code 01955A) which includes a new filter
b.t.w I had ear-marked the Power King PK-12180 12V 18Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery (€46 in France) which fits in my enclosure - sound alright?
Front Disk brake:
Before I stopping using the bike there was a small leak in the front brake master cylinder. (which has now ruined the paintwork on my front mudguard)
At the moment I’m still stuck with trying to get the reservoir cap off (round type) as 2 of the 3 screws are turning without coming out, but assuming a can remove this, I was going to buy the £40 Motobins “Brake master cylinder overhaul kit (16mm)”, but wondered whether there is anyway of knowing whether this will solve my problem.
At the moment I’m trying to avoid changing to the later square reservoir as I understand I’ll need to change the whole throttle assembly
Fuel supply:
When I disconnect the pipe from the bottom of the fuel tap and turn on the tap, there is only a rapid drip which feels like its not rapid enough and might need clearing. Is there any way simply check my flow rate to check whether I need to disassemble and clean the tap - or is that obviously blocked?
Also on my first motobins order planning to include Carburettor rebuild kit (code: 60020A), and new air filter (code: 03200)
Obviously this just phase one to get the thing rolling again, and I would appreciate any help and advice on the above, and all the obvious stuff I’ve missed….
Thanks
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If all the oils were changed just before putting the bike into storage I would run the bike to get everything hot before changing them. New oil doesn't deteriorate that much in storage, particular the transmission oils which don't have the source of contamination that the engine does.
If the oils weren't fresh then change the engine oil without doubt before running the engine even if that means a cold oil change. If the oil comes out looking terrible then you might want to drop the sump to clean out any settled sludge. In this case I wouldn't fuss about what oil to use as I'd be changing it again soon.
Battery sounds fine. Many of us are using cheap generic AGM batteries.
My round mater cylinder is all still original so I'm not sure what the Motobins kit includes. I doubt it includes the seal between the reservoir and metal body.
Fuel tap sounds obviously blocked possibly with stale fuel. I'd empty the tank to see what the state of the fuel is and what debris the tank contains. There should be a small mesh filter inside the bottom tap union which may be blocked. The tap can be dismantled, cleaned and rebuilt but it's a job that involves much swearing as you'll find out when trying to reassemble it.
Carbs will need a clean and rebuild with new O rings and diaphragm. Flat top Bings can have the diaphragm changed without replacing the whole slide assembly. Other than the needle jet which is prone to wear there is no need to automatically replace any other jets if they clean up OK. Floats probably will need replacement which you can check by weighing them. 12 - 14 grams is serviceable.
Round air filters last a very long so I wouldn't automatically change it unless it's deteriorated or has a vast mileage on it.
Other things to look at ? I'd be surprised if the Ate front brake caliper wasn't seized from corrosion.
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Hi Barry thanks for all that.
I'll definitely change the oil then (hadn't done it for some time before I stopped using it)
Should I do them all, or could I just change the engine and simply check and top up levels on gearbox, drive shaft and rear bevel?
for the engine oil I read a 20w - 50 is ok?
for the gearbox 75W-90? & is this the same for the drive shaft and rear bevel?
The motorbins kit for the master cylinder only includes the piston assembly, but the diaphragm is apparently also still available on http://www.capitalcycle.com in the states. My problem is that I don't know what parts I need, as I don't know whats causing the fluid leak.....I guess once (if.....) I manage to get it apart this may become clearer?
For the carbs should I add needle jets to my order ? Or is there a way to look at them to see if they need replacing?
I'll check the floats.
I have the twin Brembo disks fitted to the bike, but I suppose your comment still applies to these. Would it be sensible to take these apart before refilling the system with break fluid? (see photo; there's a fair amount of rust..)
Lastly (for now at least) it looks like it would be sensible for me to add a torque wrench to my tool box, which one of the following would serve me best:
28 - 210 Nm, 1/2 inch or
7 - 105 Nm, 3/8 inch
Thanks again
Tom
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Hi just taken the fuel tap from the tank and its full of rubbish - obviously needs a good clean out. Any advice on cleaning products would be useful
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I'll definitely change the oil then (hadn't done it for some time before I stopped using it)
Should I do them all, or could I just change the engine and simply check and top up levels on gearbox, drive shaft and rear bevel?
for the engine oil I read a 20w - 50 is ok?
for the gearbox 75W-90? & is this the same for the drive shaft and rear bevel?
The motorbins kit for the master cylinder only includes the piston assembly, but the diaphragm is apparently also still available on http://www.capitalcycle.com in the states. My problem is that I don't know what parts I need, as I don't know whats causing the fluid leak.....I guess once (if.....) I manage to get it apart this may become clearer?
For the carbs should I add needle jets to my order ? Or is there a way to look at them to see if they need replacing?
I'll check the floats.
I have the twin Brembo disks fitted to the bike, but I suppose your comment still applies to these. Would it be sensible to take these apart before refilling the system with break fluid? (see photo; there's a fair amount of rust..)
Lastly (for now at least) it looks like it would be sensible for me to add a torque wrench to my tool box, which one of the following would serve me best:
28 - 210 Nm, 1/2 inch or
7 - 105 Nm, 3/8 inch
Changining the trasmission oils is less critical than the engine oil provided an inspection shows there is no water contamination but given you need only a little over 1 litre of oil it might be safer to change them. 75w90 is fine for all 3 and 20W50 for the engine.
Brembo calipers on a 78 are good news in many respects. It means they are not original and therfore not as old as the bike, they are less suceptble than Ate to corrosion and spares are much cheaper if you do need them. Rust on the outside is not really a functional issue, it's whether or not the pistons have siezed. If they are not both free to move the brakes won't work and even too much stiction will cause the brakes to sqeal as the pistons will not retract. After 10 years I suspect you'll need to rebuild them.
Measuring needle jets for wear is a tricky business if you consider that the difference between one size of needle jet and the next size up is only 0.8 thousands of an inch. It therefore doesn't take much wear to make a big difference and you are not going to be able to measure that wear without accurate pin gauges which would cost more than new jets.
You can't do everything with one size of torque wrench but of the two the 3/8 wrench will be most useful.
The tap and therfore the tank are a mess and you will probably need to re-coat the tank inside. Not something I've done but you'll find lots of previous thtreads with a search.
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I have done three tanks and found the POR15 tank liner to be the best, IMHO. The tank on my '81 R100 was very nasty inside, original liner flaking off, etc. I used Muriatic acid and sloshed and rotated it for about 12 hours and the inside of the tank was a nice matte gray with no liner or rust left. After rinsing and drying I coated with POR15 and today the tank is still silver on the inside - after about 13 years or so.
You might want to think about a new fuel tap. They are about £28.00 + S&H from MotoBins.
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If you plan on rebuilding the calipers take them apart first to make sure what size the piston are
Hopefully they are the standard 38mm
Honestly I cant imagine riding the bike without rebuilding the brake hydraulics first
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And change transmission oil too. Brittany can be quite damp in winter, so I won't be surprised there is some water in the transmission. At first start you will mix the oil and water and turn it into some cafe looking junk.
I second the advice about braking. Planning to be able to stop the bike proper has to be done before putting gas in the tank.
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b.t.w I had ear-marked the Power King PK-12180 12V 18Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery (€46 in France) which fits in my enclosure - sound alright?
I'd find an AGM battery instead, they last longer and require zero maintenance for about the same price.
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Thank you Barry, Justin B, Mrclubike and georgesgirait for your advise.
All oils are draining as I type....one issue already which feels like it could be a big one, is that the drive shaft filler plug came undone nicely, but then just continued turning having only lifted a couple of mm...so currently can't get out for refill and presumably it may not seal up well? Any advice?
I'll try and take my Brembo Calipers apart this afternoon.
Can you tell from the photo above whether mine are the twin piston fixed type (they appear to be from the Haynes diagram)?
When I'm ordering parts is there a specific reference I can give to be sure to ordering compatible bits.
For example on the motobins site there is a caliper overhaul kit Code: 23300A BMW: 34 21 1 237 234 which is for R65 1985 and onwards - could it be this?
Barry, I'll add a couple of needle jets to my motobins order for when I rebuild the carbs - just to be sure I've understood the part you're talking about is the attached photo right (obviously I'll check the size before ordering)
thanks Justin B. I'll order some POR15 and sort out the tank.
Thanks all again
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Can you tell from the photo above whether mine are the twin piston fixed type (they appear to be from the Haynes diagram)?
You can tell by looking at the caliper that it's a single piston. Since the '78 models came with ATE calipers, someone has done you a small favor and replaced the originals with Brembos. Therefore, you can't go off of what the parts fiche says alone - you should measure the piston size and brake pads to determine exactly which caliper you have. There are at least two different Brembo calipers used on the R65 from when the Brembos were introduced to '87.
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Smart thinking Tom, in attempting to remove the filler plug before the drain plug. The various filler and drain plug threads strip easily if over tightened. They should not be more than 10 ftlbs and for filler plugs I use even less. It will need to be helicoiled.
Your calipers are twin piston in that there is a piston pressing on each brake pad as opposed to a single piston sliding caliper commonly fitted to cars.
The picture you posted does show the correct needle jets.
The work list is getting longer. I hope you don't find too many more issues.
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The small plug on the rear of the final drive is a sight plug. It's best to leave this alone and remove the vent on top to pour in a pre-measured quantity of lube.
The "Junkyard Dawg" had this stripped as well so I drilled out the hole and made a threaded insert with M6 threaded hole, JB-Welded it into the hole, and used a SS screw with copper washer. Worked like a champ!
On the POR15 kit, this is what I used along with the Muriatic Acid:
https://www.por15.com/POR-15-Motorcycle-Fuel-Tank-Repair-Kit-_p_106.html
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Ok, the horse has bolted on a sympathetic recomissioning of the engine, given that you have already started it and this picked up a fair quantity of whatever crud was sitting int eh bottom of the sump and run it through the pump, into the filter, and possibly beyond.
Please do add a sump gasket to your purchases and take the sump off and clean it out inside, this is a good opportunity to find out if dire things are happening as is usually evidenced by metal fragments, clips and pins being found int he sump. Please note that the sump gasket does not need ANY sealants, adhesives, or magic potions to do its job, all it needs is a nice, clean mating surface. If you are having trouble getting it to stay in position whilst you offer the sump up to the engine prior to bolting it - a small smear of axle grease is the way to go.
Brakes.
Brembos have hard anodised, polished pistons and unless they leak when connected to a working master cylinder I'd be inclined to leave them alone other than fitting new pads, new stainless steel bleed nipples and some new rubber caps. I would count on replacing the hoses to the brakes as soon as practicable, this is a near 40 year old machine and they have had their life. Braided stainless steel lines are good.
Master cylinder
After the length of time your bike has sat, you can pretty much bank on the master cylinder being toast. Pull it apart and if the bore is undamaged, clean it up and put a new piston kit in it (and then go and buy a handful of lottery tickets). OTOH if the M/C is toast you have some decisions. If it is a "round" tank model, it is junk purely because you can no longer buy new tanks, I have several otherwise serviceable (or repairable) round tank M/Cs and I keep looking but cannot find new tanks. Even if yours is good it is still a time bomb as the seal at the base of the tank will fail and when it does it is game over because whilst it is just a simple O-ring, pulling the tank will destroy it 99 times out of 100.
If you have a square tank, then I'd buy a new tank (they are cheap) and O-ring, and possibly a new internal "baffle" (which are not cheap but are eventually ruined by brake fluid). Look on the front side of the M/C and it will have a number, most likely 12 or 13 which refers to its bore size. I would pay to have a square tank M/C sleeved in stainless steel before I'd buy a new one - the stainless sleeve will last forever and require only piston changes thereafter and will cost a lot less than a new M/C. There are some who say a sleeved master cylinder may leak - in which case it was done wrong. Correctly done the sleeve is frozen and pressed into a heated M/C body that has been previously bored to size - the resultant interference fit is NEVER going to leak. However, a brake cylinder rebuilder who does not have a precision lathe on the premises is likely going to use a bench drill and should be wearing a white cap and a black apron because he is a butcher, not an engineer. Using a bench drill and adhesives works sufficiently often that many use that method and frankly with a sleeve going into a cast iron cylinder, yeah maybe. Into Alloy - no way......
If you do buy a new M/C, buy the latest brake lever as well, it may help you avoid a mismatch problem.
Fuel tank.
That needs to be cleaned and relined urgently. I've no knowledge of POR products, but a lot of people report positive results. A small tip. Once you have your new liner in the tank and you are about to put it aside to cure, lay it down upside down. The reason for this is that you inevitably end up with a "blob" of excess liner material and if that blob is always under fuel you run the risk of the fuel attacking it and getting through it to the steel and restarting the corrosion problem. Putting the tank upside down means the blob is permanently above fuel level and is less susceptible to attack.
Tank petcock.
Buy a rebuild kit, they are cheap. Also buy a new filter "sock" for it - that is the only fuel filter an airhead needs.
Carbs
Before spending a fortune on new parts, these carbs are VERY durable. If you have the "pissing fuel on your boot" problem, firstly turn your fuel tap off when you stop - your carbs are not petcocks (Bing told me so). If you have a persistent leak, take the float bowl off and jiggle the floats up and down a 1/2 dozen times and see if that cures it. This can take a while, I foolishly let my fuel system dry out and when I went for a ride last weekend I had to stop 11 times and do as above until all the crap in the fuel lines was flushed through. Obviously if you still have problems after the above, put a kit through your carbs. Do not wimp out on replacing he butterfly shaft o-rings, they are important. Do one carb at a time as many components are "handed" - mixing handed components is bad....Very bad.
Further rant later.
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You will have to dissemble the caliper and measure the piston to know for sure what kit you need
All of these Brembo calipers look the same but have different piston diameters
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Hopefully it will measure 38mm and you can get the very inexpensive Brembo 38mm kit
here is the link to the complete caliper if yours are to far gone
They are standard Moto Guzzi parts
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_115&products_id=834
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_115&products_id=1034
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The ATE is what you had originally
Like yours I have installed a standard 38mm Brembo F08 in its place
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b.t.w I had ear-marked the Power King PK-12180 12V 18Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery (€46 in France) which fits in my enclosure - sound alright?
I'd find an AGM battery instead, they last longer and require zero maintenance for about the same price.
Looks to me like the Power King PK-12180 replacement batteries are AGM's.
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Thanks all again,
OIL
stripped drive shaft fill - obviously needs a repair in the long term.....presumably that means taking apart to get access to drill out etc?
Having finally managed to remove the plug from this location (previously it was just turning), is there a temp / bodge fix I could get away with in the short term...?
the oil filter I have taken out is the 'bendy' 2 part type, but I am ordering the 'straight' type to replace - is this ok?
Oil that came out of the engine was 'clean' looking, so I don't think I'll remove
FRONT BRAKE CALIPERS
got the calipers apart; condition doesn't look too bad? (see photos), the pistons aren't jammed, I can compress both sides and a bit of residual fluid gurgles - should I be able to remove them?
They appear to measure 36mm diameter - is this bad news? I think someone mentioned the 38 was more commen and cheaper for parts?
That said the condition doesn look bad, but as you know I'm no expert; could you have a quick look at the photos and tell me what you think - pads have still got plently on them......
MASTER CYLINDER
Got this apart, but things here look less good - see photos...salvagable?
Its maybe looking like I'll have to 'upgrade' to a square. Motobins tell me that part 61126 THROTTLE ASSEMBY WITH MASTER CYLINDER is compatible with my twin disk brembos - at cost of £258,60....! May be the way to go?
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and a couple of master cylinder photos
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OK here goes; I'm pretty much a novice so please excuse my ignorance.
I have a 1978 R65 which I bought around 20 years ago, used on and off for 10 years, then left for 10 years (undercover) and now am getting going again.
Battery obviously dead, but a friend hooked it up to their car and managed to get the engine to splutter back to life.
In parallel:-
Mine is a 1985 R65LS bought 25 years ago, used on an off for 10 years then left 15 years (undercover) and now am getting going again.
Battery was dead but hooking up to a leisure battery it sputtered into life.
Mine is now in bits, Engine out, barrels and heads off being aqua blasted, frame awaiting powder coating. Bottom end looks in good shape.
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take the pistons completely out to measure
Maybe the outer rim is smaller than the piston itself
That fluid looks really bad
Looks like water contamination
I suspect the MC bore is bad
I suspect the caliper bores are pitted also
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Hello Mrclubike,
any tips on how to get caliper pistons out - as I say, they move in and out, but I'm not familiar with these bits, so I'm nervous about damaging something.
Attached is a photo of the MC bore and piston after a soak in some slightly less old fluid - Look slightly less awful, but I'm thinking with the amount other dodgy bits with this MC; reservoir cap screws had to be drilled out as 2 out of 3 were spinning without coming out, diaphragm knackered, fluid leak even before I stopped using the bike 12 years ago, etc.... that it might be sensible to renew for the square reservoir?
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A bit late now but I would have pumped them out before draining the fluid. I've refilled the system before now to get a stubborn one out. Other methods include using compressed air taking care the piston doesn't become a missile.
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Put a piece of wood in place of the "rotor" and put some compressed air to the inlet. Make sure your fingers are clear when doing this...
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If the caliper pistons are really stuck (and being Brembos I'd be surprise if they were) You can run a tap into the gallery that connects the two halves of the caliper and fit a grease nipple.
Using a grease-gun to pump out stuck caliper pistons is something I have done many times, mostly to car brakes, but also to ATE and Tockico calipers (manufacturers who share the unspeakable crime of using chrome plated bright mild steel for pistons).
Messy, but never yet met a piston that successfully resisted.
However, to turn to your immediate problem, I would simply fit an O-ring and put your calipers back together and give them a good flush once you have a working master cylinder. A motorcycle wrecker of my acquaintance tells me that he has seen Brembos sit on his shelf for 20 years and still be useable.
Don't panic about possible bore damage, such damage will likely be on the fluid side of the seal and therefore irrelevant. Spend your time and money on more urgent projects.
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Hello again
BREMBO CALIPERS
Finally got my calipers pistons out - good news is they look in good condition, less good news is they are 36mm so when I come to need parts it'll cost more...
At the moment I'm just planning to buy new s/s bleed nipples and rubber caps (as recommended by Tony Smith)
MASTER CYLINDER
Looks like this is beyond my powers of repair, so planning to order a new throttle assembly with master cylinder
STRIPPED DRIVE SHAFT FILL
Barry, I've looked at the heliocoil kits - much simpler than I first imagined. Do you know which thread I need - looks like M12, but there is M12 x 1,5 x 16,3 kit or M12 x 1,25 x 16,3 see photo below; do you know which one of these might do the job?
Presumably I'll need to remove the rear suspension spring for access?
MOTOBINS
see below for a list of items on my motobins order I will placing in the next couple of days; let know if you think I should be considering anything else.
Thanks again - all comments appreciated
Tom
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STRIPPED DRIVE SHAFT FILL
Barry, I've looked at the heliocoil kits - much simpler than I first imagined. Do you know which thread I need - looks like M12, but there is M12 x 1,5 x 16,3 kit or M12 x 1,25 x 16,3 see photo below; do you know which one of these might do the job?
Presumably I'll need to remove the rear suspension spring for access?
It'a 12 x 1.5.
I've never had to do this but when you get the drive shaft filler plug out you'll see there is very little depth of free space below the threads to use any sort of taper tap and even if there was you would have to devise a means of preventing swarf getting into the housing. Perhaps someone who has done this repair will chip in and say if it's possible in situ or if as I suspect the drive shaft will have to be removed. I think I'd want to use a pillar drill to keep the hole and threads perpendicular to the housing.
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I've never had to do this but when you get the drive shaft filler plug out you'll see there is very little depth of free space below the threads to use any sort of taper tap and even if there was you would have to devise a means of preventing swarf getting into the housing. Perhaps someone who has done this repair will chip in and say if it's possible in situ or if as I suspect the drive shaft will have to be removed. I think I'd want to use a pillar drill to keep the hole and threads perpendicular to the housing.
It is not possible to do in situ. More to the point, unless you are very,very lucky there is no little metal there that a "proper" repair may require welding and re-drilling.
My wife's bike has been wearing a rubber bung in place of the "fill" screw since the early 90s. Water doesn't get in and only a little gear oil manages to migrate out to remind me that one day I must get a round to fixing it properly. I am about to pull that final drive to replace seals and at least the big bearing (and on past experience probably every bearing bar the input "sleeve" bearings which just never seems to fail on the older airheads). As I will have it stripped to a bare housing I'll take it into town and have it welded and drilled for a new bolt.
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The repair I did I drilled and then used a "bottoming" tap and JB-Welded the insert into the final. On the drill and tap just use a bunch of sticky grease and most, if not all, of the chips will stick to it.
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I think I wold try to go towards a repair Like Justin suggested
See if you can drill the original plug out big enough to allow it to be used as a thread repair insert and just JB weld it in
You may be able to drill it out enough to get a 8mm bolt in it
Darn Helciols can be tricky
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Darn Helciols can be tricky
If I were to even try to do this I'd use a cut down tinesert rather than a helicoil.
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Justins repair was very neat. You are only going to be putting a maximum of 150 cc of oil in so it doesn't need a big fill hole.
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Hi Tony,
I think I'll go down your 'temporary' rubber bung solution for the time being. Just trying to source the right one - do you think a tapered rubber bung 9mm diam and 11,5mm diam x 20mm ht would be about right?
I'll add Justin's or the Helicoil solutions to my phase 2 list.....
For cleaning up the calipers, do I use break fluid and an old toothbrush?
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Just adding a post to bring this topic back to the current board as it was before I deleted a post I made, to start a new topic. Somehow Tom's R65 resurrection topic disappeared off the board too.
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Hi Tony,
do you think a tapered rubber bung 9mm diam and 11,5mm diam x 20mm ht would be about right?
For cleaning up the calipers, do I use break fluid and an old toothbrush?
If the bung fits tightly whilst still leaving enough material on top for you to grab when you need to remove it, it will be golden.
I've attached a photo of the "bung" in the final driveon the wife's R65/80, ignore the oil weep marks, I am going to rebuild it this week, for some reason I've had to do 3 final drive rebuilds this year, which is more than I've had to do in the previous 40 years of Airhead onwership. The only thing I'll say is that I am now a dab hand at getting the little bastard of a bearing out that carries the "nose" of the pinion shaft, I've borrowed from the old mechanic's cookbook for removing the clutch bearign or bush from the centre of a flywheel - turn up a piece of steel that just fits inside the bush/bearing and then pack as much grease as possible into the bush/bearing. Insert turned steel drift and then smack the end of it smartly with a big hammer, the grease, having nowhere to go, forces the bush/bearing out.
As to cleaning the caliper - whatever floats your boat, just be sure that when to put it back together that you only use clean brake fluid as assembley lube.
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thanks Tony
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Hello again
STRIPPED DRIVE SHAFT FILL
Barry, I've looked at the heliocoil kits - much simpler than I first imagined. Do you know which thread I need - looks like M12, but there is M12 x 1,5 x 16,3 kit or M12 x 1,25 x 16,3 see photo below; do you know which one of these might do the job?
Presumably I'll need to remove the rear suspension spring for access?
Tom
I did this repair. Here's the final result: https://advrider.com/f/threads/new-airhead-project.1260761/page-3#post-33742346
Read up a bit in the thread to see how I did it. No leaks to date.
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just got my other front disk brake pads out, and this set also have a decent amount of pad left, though a bit more rust/flakey paint on the rear side - is this something to worry about, or can I re-use.
If I need to replace, how can find the correct replacements for 36mm Brembo Calipers?
see photos
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Tyres:
should I also assume that tyres have to be changed
see photos
I see these are suggested as a not to pricey option
Rear Tyre
Metzeler ME77 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 4.00 -18 64H
Front Tyre
Metzeler ME22 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 3.25-18 59P reinf.
any advice appreciated on these
(my usage will be occasional mainly taking it easy around country lanes)
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Nothing wrong with the original quality of those tires but how old are they ? You should be able to work it out from the date codes on the side wall.
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just got my other front disk brake pads out, and this set also have a decent amount of pad left, though a bit more rust/flakey paint on the rear side - is this something to worry about, or can I re-use.
In terms of wear those pads are nearly new so I would be inclined to clean them up and repaint the backs.
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Hi,
Might not be of help now but although really really expensive the 16mm master cylinder from Motorworks fits the lever assembly on a 78-80 R65 which has the round reservoir.
I bought a ‘reconditioned’ lever and master cylinder assembly on eBay, only to find it leaked straight away which meant I had little options :'(
Andrew
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Sorry mean’t to say twin disc although they sell other sizes.
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My GOD!
The only time an R65 would need a 16mm master cylinder is if you were fitting Brembo 4-spot calipers.
I did the math when I was considering doing just that, BMW use a 17mm or 19mm for those calipers depending on whether you have a K100, K1100 or R1100/1150 and the consensus is that they can be just a little wooden.
I worked out that 16mm gave a nice ratio and 15mm would be OK once the hand learned moderation.
16mm with Brembo F08s would require horrendous lever pressure in order to work, 13mm is about right for most people, I am currently running twin K100 sourced Brembo 2-spots o a 12mm master cylinder and whilst I'll admit it took a ride or two for the hand to learn moderation, I am now completely happy with it (moderation required because 1 finger can lock the front wheel without raising a sweat)
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Thanks Barry,
I've got the DOT refs here; the front is 497, which must be 49th week of 1997, and the rear 499 being the end of 1999........
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Yes Tony, wooden would be a good description on how the lever feels especially with the SS lines fitted.
Having spent a small fortune on the brakes inc replacing the calliper seals and lines it will have to do for a while. It’s never going to be a daily ride.
Leaving old fluid in them sitting for years is what probably kills them as not been on the road since 2008.
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Thanks Barry,
I've got the DOT refs here; the front is 497, which must be 49th week of 1997, and the rear 499 being the end of 1999........
You'll want to change them then !
I had those 3 digit codes on my 79 when I bought it at 28 years old and only 6000 miles. The problem with the 3 digit codes was you couldn't tell which decade they dated from. The front was so rock hard it was obviously original and I replaced it immediately but the rear looked good with no cracks and had so much tread left I initially thought it was a later tyre and rode on it for several thousand miles. When it refused to wear out I changed that as well.
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ok. These seem reasonably priced in France - d'you think they'll be ok?
Rear Tyre
Metzeler ME77 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 4.00 -18 64H
Front Tyre
Metzeler ME22 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 3.25-18 59P reinf.
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Any tips on getting the last bolt undone to get my calipers apart?
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Put them back on the bike and then jump on that extension bar you have there, after first soaking it with a 50/50 mix of Acetone and ATF for a few days.
A bit of heat would probably help the process too.
Replace bolts with Stainless Steel ones and use anti-seize on them.
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I didn't see that anyone had mentioned new tires. When I bought my bike it had 10 year old tires on it with less than 1000 miles on them. The bike was so squirrelly that I though that I had forgotten how to ride a motorbike. New tires and shocks made a world of difference. Lesson learned, tread depth is not the only thing to check. The month and year of manufacture is stamped on the side of the tire if you look long enough.
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Yeah, tires are close to the top of my list of things to change on a "new" bike. The last three used motorcycles I've had had a head-shake at about 40 mph that was "fixed" with new tires...
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anyone care to comment on these as replacements?
Rear Tyre
Metzeler ME77 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 4.00 -18 64H
Front Tyre
Metzeler ME22 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 3.25-18 59P reinf.
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Metzelers are spendy tires but I have ridden on bad asphalt in rainy near freezing temp and they have never gone out from under me so I am pretty much sold. The old rock and roll song "the brakes are good, the tires fair" kind of doesn't make it on two wheels. But I still like the song.
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Oil filter change.
I'm just fitting my replacement oil filter and have 2 spare washers from the motobins kit - see photos - are these necessarily required?
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I'll be interested too. I could not find a place for the big metal "shim" either. Nothing like that came out of the old one.
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also replacing washers to the various sumps.
replacements are copper with a rounded profile, and originals are flat edged aluminium - see photo.
Am I doing the right thing?
Got a torque setting for the gearbox sump, but nothing given for the engine oil (which is an allen key, so difficult any way to hook up to my torque wrench....) Not too tight a suppose?
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I'm sure the copper crush washers will be fine.
BMW's spec for the sump plug torque is something like 22ftlbs which I consider dangerously high. I go very light with 10 ftlbs for all the fill and drain plugs except the drive shaft which gets a bit less and I've never had one leak or fall out. You could probably safely go a little higher than 10 but I wouldn't dare use 22 ftlbs. I'd be interested to hear what others use.
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The large metal washer, commonly called a shim, goes into the oil filter cavity, it sits on the edge of the sleeve in the filter area .
As far as tightening the various fill and drain lugs, you need a light touch with the wrenches, etc ...
You'll find out real quick, that steel fasteners and aluminum threads can become a disaster if over tightened .
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Copper washers are good they seal with less torque.
I found no use for the smaller oring either.
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I'll be interested too. I could not find a place for the big metal "shim" either. Nothing like that came out of the old one.
Just because you didn't remove a part when you dissembled it doesn't mean you don't need it
Previous owners are notorious for screwing things up >:(
The large diameter shim in the kit is critical in some applications
If your engine requires it and you leave it out you can have loss of oil pressure and destroy your engine
I do not know the cut off dates of when it is and isn't required
But a simple search of the "2000 dollar O ring" will tell you all about it
But the best info is here at Snowbums tech articles
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/technical-articles-list.htm
After you are there scroll down to the Mechanical section and then to Line 51a
Every Airhead owner should be aware of the issue with properly installing an oil filter
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Looking at the o-ring assortment, I think the smaller black o-ring, may be for the oil dipstick .
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The large diameter shim in the kit is critical in some applications
If your engine requires it and you leave it out you can have loss of oil pressure and destroy your engine
I do not know the cut off dates of when it is and isn't required
But a simple search of the "2000 dollar O ring" will tell you all about it
Thanks for that mrclubbike. Checking on Antons site it seems I need the shim, but not the gasket.(Canister depth is 3.5mm) When I dismatled it there was a gasket but no shim.
The old O ring (black not white in my case) had obviously been installed with some sort of sealant. So it is now reassembled with no gasket, and one shim, torqued up to hand tight with a T spanner and loctited (I don't believe in lock washers.
The black 30mm O ring fits the filler plug and the 20mm copper crush washer fits the drain plug.
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None of the fill or drain plugs use a rubber o-ring, they all use metal washers .
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some Dip sticks use the Oring
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The large diameter shim in the kit is critical in some applications
If your engine requires it and you leave it out you can have loss of oil pressure and destroy your engine
I do not know the cut off dates of when it is and isn't required
But a simple search of the "2000 dollar O ring" will tell you all about it
Thanks for that mrclubbike. Checking on Antons site it seems I need the shim, but not the gasket.(Canister depth is 3.5mm) When I dismatled it there was a gasket but no shim.
The old O ring (black not white in my case) had obviously been installed with some sort of sealant. So it is now reassembled with no gasket, and one shim, torqued up to hand tight with a T spanner and loctited (I don't believe in lock washers.
The black 30mm O ring fits the filler plug and the 20mm copper crush washer fits the drain plug.
Very glad you Fixed it ;D
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Hello Again -
my new SLA battery has arrived and I want to check whether I will be ok using my 12 V car basic car battery charger (bought from halfords around 10 years ago).
Read about risk of damage if over charged
Thanks
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The only thing thing to worry about on a sealed battery is continuing excessively high charge voltage once the battery has reached full charge.
A wet cell battery will gas once fully charged but a sealed battery will eventually vent on the pressure relief valve which will shorten it's life.
So you can use any charger on an SLA battery provided you monitor charge voltage and don't allow it to exceed the manufacturers recommendation. In the absence of a manufacturers figure 14.5 volts would be safe. And then when it reaches full charge take it off.
Conversely leaving an SLA on an unregulated charger which might easily reach 16 volts or more once the battery reached full charge would be the kiss of death.
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ok thanks Barry
I wont leave too long.
Any idea how long a first charge might take, and can I rely on the 'ready' indicator light as a safe voltage check, or would I be better off using a voltmeter?
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If the charger has a ready light then it's not an old unregulated type so it should be safe. It's right to charge a new battery before putting it into service but it shouldn't need much at all.
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I'm about to order my tyres from my 1978 R65 and wondering whether I need to be concerned about not have a 'matching' pair
I don't want to spend too much and at the moment I'm hesitating between:
Front tyre: Metzeler ME22 90/90 - 18 (57P) (€29)
Front tyre: Metzeler ME22 - 3.25-18 59P. (€39)
Rear tyre: Metzeler LASERTEC 110/90 - 18 (61H) TL (€88)
Rear tyre: Metzeler PERFECT ME77 4.00R18 64 H (€89)
any advice appreciated
(existing old tyres are, front: 90/90 - 18.51 H & rear: 120/90 H18)
Thanks
Tom
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rear: 120/90 H18)
You may well fid that to fit a 120/90 that a modified spacer kit has been fitted to the rear wheel to move it to the left somewhat. Nothing wrong with that except that if the drive splines in the hib and wheel have taken a "set" it isn't really reversible.
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ok thanks Tony, I'll have a look for that - if I upload a photo of the rear wheel would you be able to tell whether a spacer has been fitted?
Is the issue of having a matching pair important - the website I was looking to buy the tyres said I have to have a matching pair?
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You will need to measure the spacer to see if it is longer than standard - not a difficult task.
Tyres that are meant to be used as a pair should be used as such. The problem is sorting out tyres that are genuine pairs from those that are marketing hype.
Some 120/90s will fit, some will not. Unfortunately with the steady disappearance of "inch" tyres and the ever bigger tyres being fitted to new bikes the 110/90 which is a pretty much guaranteed fit has all but disappeared, other than for really ghastly tyres like Shinko.
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Just cut my finned exhaust nuts off, to find that I don't have the 'normal' (according to my Haynes Manual) compression ring and clamp ring arrangement, but just a single ring - see photo.
The thread on the cylinder looks pretty good (though I haven't cleaned all the old crap out yet), but when I offered up my shiny new finned nuts (motobins) its not an obvious match.
It might just be that a need to clean the thread, but is there a chance the I have a different thread on my new finned nuts?
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I would check part numbers for the finned nut across the model range, it may be that they changed, although I would be surprised if they did. Of course, the exhaust nut is different from other air heads, so you may have the wrong one.
Of course, when you install the new nut, use some anti-seize so the next mechanic in doesn't have to cut this one off.
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I don't know the specifics but remember a couple of things from reading. As usual, the R65 is a little different than the others.
The finned nuts on the R65's are smaller than the other models (I can't remember if the small version was used on other models or not).
I'm pretty sure that there is only one other piece involved, the gasket that goes up against the head. I've heard of other models that have a multi-piece thing but the R65's just have one.
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The single clamp ring is correct for the R65, except for the very early 78/79 models which had the same arrangement as the bigger bikes. BUT, if the nut has been changed on the earlier bikes, the baulk ring will have been discarded as the later nut bears directly on the clamp ring.
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Clean your threads up with a thread file and you should be OK
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Thanks for the replies - I've checked and it must be the correct nut, so I'll just get on with cleaning - Do you know what pitch the thread is?
Also trying to replace the crossover pipe which is not wanting to come off - any tricks to get this apart?
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Also trying to replace the crossover pipe which is not wanting to come off - any tricks to get this apart?
Alternate heat and freeze spray, along with lots of 50/50 ATF and Acetone. Once you start getting a little movement you are getting there.
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For putting back together, I'll be getting some copper anti-seal for the finned nuts. Is there anything recommended for the cross over pipe?
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Clean your threads up with a thread file and you should be OK
+1 for a thread file. I cleaned up a very worn stub enough with a thread file to hold a finned nut to a decent torque. It was much more worn than yours from what I can tell from your photo.
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I'm going to need to get the bike imported from england (originally registered in 1980) to france where I now live - Any pointers on how best to achieve this would be appreciated.
I understand that the first thing I need to do is get a certificate of conformity and this is best done in england rather than in france - does that sound about right?
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Further to my last post
Am I right in understanding, that the reflector and the glass (lens) will need to be changed for RHD?
I've started a searching on German ebay, which should be a good starting place.
If they do insist on getting km on the speedo, does anyone know if the gearing will be the same for the km and miles versions for the R65, and whether there is a way to somehow just change the plate with the speed markings on it? (There is a "for spares" km speedo on german ebay for €30.....and a working one for €169, but even though the references are both W793, the position of the markings appears to be different, so this might be difficult...?)
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After a bit more research on the ratio (W value) on the speedo with mine being W = 1276, the km equivalent is W= 793, so in theory any continental speedo with this value should give the correct speed.....
I've found someone selling what I need in France, he has asked me to make him an offer - any suggestions on a good price to offer appreciated - I suspect he is taking his machine apart to turn into a cafe racer....
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torque settings for 1979 R65.
Does anyone know of an online resource for torque settings?
I have the haynes manual, but there's only limited info.
Specifically looking for Front Disk brake values which I'm re-installing after having taken apart)
Also about to clean up my flat top carbs, so any info on that would be useful - thanks
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If you mean the bolts that fasten the caliper halves together there isn't a published torque value on the basis that you are not supposed to split them. When I did mine I used a low figure, somethinh like 15-20ftlbs.
To my knowledge there are no torque value for flat top bings either. As there is nothing that needs to be particularly tight I just go by feel and tighten everything lightly. In particular don't overtigniten the main jet holders or the top cover screws.
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Thanks to everybodys help to date, yesterday I enjoyed my first (very small) ride on my 1979 R65!
Heres what I now need to do:
After rebuilding the calipers and replacing the master cylinder, I filled the system to find one of the seals is gone on the right hand Brembo Caliper - unfortunately I have the 36mm piston so I set of seals will set me back £42,60 (before post....!)
Next issue is adjusting the carbs - is this possible without the proper kit?
Any information / guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
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Also can anyone recommend any replacement (braided SS) hose for the front brake (1 x 12,5 cm and 2 x 19,5 inches) - motobins that would cost around £75 - Sounds pricey - anyone know of another place to buy (in europe).
Should I be installing copper sealing washer at every junction, or just at the master cylinder?
Thanks
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I installed the HEL lines sold by Motobins, but bear in mind that the set I bought that was on special at the tiem was for a K100.
I am super impressed and would pay the premium for HEL lines, the angle adjusters are very, very clever.
The copper washers go on each side of EVERY banjo fitting.
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Is is essentially every junction of the hose requires a copper washer (I don't think I have banjo fittings) or is the copper washer needed because of a banjo fitting?
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I didn't see any marked as Hel on their site. Is there a choice or is Hel just the ones they use that have no name? I did see Venhill listed as a specific brand.
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Here's a link to what banjo fittings look like, in case you're not sure what you have .
https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake-lines-accessories-tools/cycle-brake-line-kits/aprilia-rs-250-front-brake-line-kit.html
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I hadn't looked closely before, but I see know that the hoses from motobins do have these banjo connections - will they connect up with the existing metal pipes. The banjo fittings look like they'll come of perpendicular to the line of the hose. My current set up connects directly in line (hose and pipe).....sorry if I'm being dumb.
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No, banjo fittings will not work with the stock metal pipes at the caliper area .
I had this issue when I changed the OEM rubber lines in '91, for my '81 R65, everything I saw and ordered, had banjo fittings .
I was going on vacation in the southern California area, an aftermarket parts supplier ( Luftmeister) told me to stop by with my brake lines and he could make up a set while I waited, only took 15 minutes to fabricate the three lines I needed .
Don't know if you have a company in the EU area that could perform this work .
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I have put about 18 litres of 3,5% acetic acid into my tank and am turning and agitating occasionally to help the process of cleaning out the old crap inside before I line with POR 15.
I've read various advice on how long this process should continue - would 7 days be good?
Also, I'm assuming as this is a fairly dilute solution that any drip I get on the external paintwork can just be wiped off without the need for excessive cleaning and neutralisation - is that right, or do I need to clean off more thoroughly.
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Hello again - I have to get a km speedo as part of the import process of my uk R65 to france.
I've found one which looks in pretty good condition, but its for a R65/7 so a little different (see photo)
Has anyone any experience of fitting this type of dials onto a R65 from 1980 (which also has the ignition key included into the plastic surround)?
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The instrument cluster you have a picture of, is from a monoshock R65 .
If you look at the bottom of the instrument face,your original speedometer will have something like W=1357, or some other number, you need to match the new speedometer that has the same number, or the speedometermay have a significant inaccuracy .
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I have put about 18 litres of 3,5% acetic acid into my tank and am turning and agitating occasionally to help the process of cleaning out the old crap inside before I line with POR 15.
Also, I'm assuming as this is a fairly dilute solution that any drip I get on the external paintwork can just be wiped off without the need for excessive cleaning and neutralisation
I treated my tank a few weeks ago with a similar process, although my kit used phosphoric acid rather than acetic acid for the rust conversion step. The other step is a degreaser. The actual liner is impossible to remove once it cures, so you need to make sure that it doesn’t contact any of the painted surfaces because you won’t get it off.
My Klm R65 speedo (‘83) is coded W793 on the front face, which is that same as the one you’ve posted so you might be ok as long as the mounts and electrical wiring connections etc are all the same?
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I have no idea, if the monoshock instrument cluster will fit or not .
I relined three fuel tanks, 2 R65 and one Moto Guzzi .
I found 9% acid vinegar, it took around 3 weeks to get all the rust out, the tanks I had, looked like an old exhaust system inside, but I did get all the rust removed .
Only issue I had, was rinsing the vinegar out of the tank with water, I got flash rusting .
I used phosphoric acid to etch the tank before using POR 15 and used denatured alcohol to rinse the acid, going on 10 years and no issues with the lining coming out .
Only problem area, was the drain tube from the filler area, it was difficult to get that tube covered completely .
The POR 15 sealant is very strong smelling I would do it in an area with good ventilation .
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If you look at the bottom of the instrument face,your original speedometer will have something like W=1357, or some other number, you need to match the new speedometer that has the same number, or the speedometermay have a significant inaccuracy .
I wonder if anyone has come across a listing of the specs for all these speedos and codes Bob? I’ve got an R45 speedo that I’m going to try out, just to see. My original speedo doesn’t have a functioning odometer.
I treated my BSA M21 tank with a liner solution about 25 years ago and it was very rusty internally. I’ve never had a carb blockage since. It’s a pretty effective treatment.
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Thanks for all the advice.
My existing speedo has a value of W = 1276, which means I need to find a speedo in kms with a W = 793 to give the correct reading.
I expect its going to be simpler to replace like with like - my plastic surround is a bit knackered - see photo -Do you think this is going to be possible to glue (got some J-B Weld)? For cleaning this surround just soap and water?
For the tank, I'll leave soaking for a little longer - there's no rust, just flaky lining which need to come out.
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Hmm, not pretty is it.... You could glue it, (you would need to reinforce the back side of the break) but it’s never going to perfect. It’s probably a bit too far gone.
I’ve been looking for one as well for my bike and although there is nothing on eBay presently, there are a few of them turning up in other places. They are one of the first parts to get discarded by custom builders, and there seems to be no shortage of those, so a nice one will turn up sooner or later.
You could probably glue that one back up and press it into service until something else turns up. Superglue would be my weapon of choice.
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A Gel type superglue would be my suggestion.
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On my 1980 R65 I used the stainless hoses listed on motorbins as they are a direct replacement for the standard rubber hoses.
The top one is dependent on handlebar type/height, I would also change the small metal pipes as well if funds allow.
I have the twin disk set up and Brembo calipers.
Andy
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Hello all
My latest motobins order has just arrived which included new brake hoses and overhaul kits for my 38mm Brembo calipers, but I'm concerned I may have got the wrong kit because the size of the seal is larger than my piston - it slips over with a 0,5mm of play...? Can this be possible (I haven't tried inserting them into the cylinder yet in case I need to sell on). However the other components are correct: dust seals have the same reference (20 2246 10) and bolts fit and are the same length.
Any thoughts on whether I have correct kit?
Thanks, Tom
UPDATE: Motobins have concerned confirmed that this is normal.
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I have also completed the relining of the tank and am now getting the necessary flow out of my petcock; took it for a little spin (just up to second gear on a private track) which showed plently of adjustments to be made, but the engine was running :)
Later in the day I tried to start up again (I'm quite excited and show everyone who visits...), but not firing at all suddenly.
After I few minutes I noticed that one of the spark plug cables was loose, and realised that it had come disconnected from its ignition coil. I reconnected it, but still nothing.
Could trying to start with this cable disconnected caused electrical damage?
I've checked, and I am still getting a spark on both sides (though the plug was a little sooty)
Any potential diagnoses appreciated
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Could trying to start with this cable disconnected caused electrical damage?
Without reading all through the thread I'm assuming this is a early model with points ignition.
Running an ignition coil open circuit is potentially damaging because it allows the coil to develop it's maximum HT voltage which can lead to insulation breakdown. The risk of damage is less though on a points ignition. Another factor is the battery voltage will have been pulled down to 10 volts or so while cranking the engine which puts less stress on the coil compared with pulling a plug lead on a running engine where it could be 14 volts.
The probability is no damage has been done. Lets put it this way, I accidently cranked the engine with open circuit HT leads about 10 years ago and it's still running fine on the same coils.
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unfortunately I have the 36mm piston so I set of seals will set me back £42,60 (before post....!)
Next issue is adjusting the carbs - is this possible without the proper kit?
Any information / guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
If you have 36 mm pistons you have the wrong kit
You need this kit
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With regard to the messages above, I bought the caliper repair kits from Bob's BMW in Jessup, Maryland. Ordered by phone with my handy-dandy VISA; they were here within one week, because another part I ordered at the same time had to be sourced out of the BMW warehouse. Costs were as shown on the BMW fiche they have on-line (can't remember the cost now).
I also learned that their policy is that if you are ordering at least $100 worth of parts, the shipping is free. On a later order, I ordered on a Thursday morning and the parts were here in Nashville, TN, in my mailbox by Saturday afternoon (they ship by Fed Ex and then the ground delivery is by US Mail). Best parts service I have ever gotten.....
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unfortunately I have the 36mm piston so I set of seals will set me back £42,60 (before post....!)
Next issue is adjusting the carbs - is this possible without the proper kit?
Any information / guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
If you have 36 mm pistons you have the wrong kit
You need this kit
Hello MrClubike - in fact I had initially thought it was 36mm as I was trying to measure without removing the piston, but once removed I saw it was 38mm - Motobins have confirmed a little play is normal before the seal is inserted into the groove - so looks like I've got the right kit.......
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hello again,
I'm still struggling to get my 1979 R65 to start again (or even fire).
Here's a quick recap of where I am:
Bike sat unused for 12 years under cover, so over the last few months I've slowly been getting things back in shape.
So far:
1/ tank re-lined and petlock cleaned out
2/ carburetors cleaned / rebuilt
3/ Front brakes re-built (including replacement of old circular master cylinder with square model, new pipes, piston seals).
4/ new battery
I had the engine running again after rebuidling the carbs, but before re-lining the tank, but obviously the fuel supply quickly blocked again at the petlock filter.
Then on Monday after re-lining the tank (and letting it dry for 4 days), I had the engine running ok for a good 10 mins (riding up and down a private track), but later that day the bike would not start - and this is where I am stuck....
ideas of where to start my search appreciated.
So far I have checked fuel supply to carbs which is good, and the floats appear to be closing off the flow at the correct height (parallel with carb body).
I have checked that the spark plugs are sparking.
but I'm not sure what to do next.
I'm thinking I may need to take the carbs apart again to check whether any crud got pulled through the petlock filter during the couple of times I had it running between rebuilding the carbs and re-lining the tank...
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but I'm not sure what to do next.
Before I tore the carbs apart I would squirt a little fuel in the inlets to see if you can get a pop or two. This would prove you have enough spark to fire the mixture.
Remember that these are two little separate motors hooked to the same shaft. To have both carbs go silent in the same fashion and at the same time is long odds, if it isn't caused by a common fuel feed.
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Start simple, is the ' KILL ' switch in the OFF position ??
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Before I tore the carbs apart I would squirt a little fuel in the inlets to see if you can get a pop or two. This would prove you have enough spark to fire the mixture.
Hello wilcom, I tried as you suggested, and didn't get very conclusive results, but it appears to me I may be having a problem with the quality of the spark.
This is what I observed after adding a teaspoon of fuel to each carb (tested separately)
Left cylinder - no pop
Right cylinder - a couple of pops, then nothing.
On removing the plugs directly after the test there was a little smoke which came from the left cylinder (which I assume means the left cylinder fired?).
Then tested the left spark - and no spark.....
Any ideas?
fitting instrument surround
On a separate issue, I've managed to find a better condition instrument surround, and need some advice on fitting. Specifically how to engage the tabs on the underside which engage somehow with the bracket which bolts onto the handlebar mounting (the bracket which also holds the front brake hose) - see photo
I bought from the same guy a speedo in km (with the correct W value) and a complete front light which were both apparently off a 1979 R65.
The speedo looks ok (apart from a slightly worrying rattle...), but the light to larger than mine. This light has a 185mm diameter - see photo - does anyone know what bike this may be from?
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If you have a week spark
First
Check for good battery Positive at the Green/Blue wire at the coil during cranking
check the wire between the coils
Check the spark plug wires
I think they are 1000 ohm caps plus solid core wires
check for corrosion in the connectors in the ignition system
If all looks good Change the Points And Condenser
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The first generation bikes, 79-80 have contact breaker ignition systems from the factory and two ignition coils .
I suggest after you check for corrosion, do a resistance check of the coil circuits .
I mentioned before, the main grounding point for all the bikes circuits, are at the forward ignition coil mounting bracket, it's not uncommon the clamp cracks and causes electrical issues .
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hello again.
since my last post the bike has started once and after 4 days of not firing at all.
On that one occasion it stared first time and idled perfectly (unfortunately I could take it for a spin as my front brake was disassembled).
Since then its been almost nothing again (apart from one or 2 pops)
Your right Bob_Roller, my bike still has the 2 separate coils .
I have checked the connections which look ok, and had a go at checking the coils:
For the primary resistances I'm getting 1,7 ohms, for the secondary I'm finding it difficult to get a connection - on one a got a reading of 6,54 K.Ohms, but nothing on the other - though this may be due to it being difficult to get a good connection with my probes as I'm trying to poke into the end of the coil .....or a problem with one of the coils...?
You'll see from the photos they're located a little strangely - one of the brakets seems to have broken at some point and the coil is held on with cables ties - this (perhaps unsurprisingly) is the coil I'm not getting a secondary reading from.
There's also a loose cable which could be some to do with my problems (see photos)
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another photo of arrangement beneath tank
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Check for good battery Positive at the Green/Blue wire at the coil during cranking
check the wire between the coils
Check the spark plug wires
I think they are 1000 ohm caps plus solid core wires
check for corrosion in the connectors in the ignition system
OK here are the first of readings I have got:
rear mounted coil: 11,48V, reducing to 9,5V while cranking
front mounted coil: 5,88V, increasing to 6,6V while cranking
then testing the spark again, I am now getting
spark from the front coil
no spark from the rear coil.
(I swapped the spark plug leads around and this didn't change the results - i.e. still no spark from rear coil. So I assume those leads are ok)
Also tried to measure the resistance of the connecting cable between the coils, but I can't be sure I was measuring the correct cable as it disappears into a mass of cables bound together, but there is a black and yellow cable between the connection "1" of the rear coil and the connection "15' of the front coil.
I measured a resistance of 0,4 [ch937] which is presumably wrong...?
Interesting while carrying this testing I had a few more pops than I had been getting before (couldn't tell which side), and the spark plugs were just one or two turns into their chambers
Does any of this make any sense......?
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there is a black and yellow cable between the connection "1" of the rear coil and the connection "15' of the front coil.
I measured a resistance of 0,4 [ch937] which is presumably wrong...?
Only wrong in the sense that it should be a little closer to zero ohms over such a short length of cable. Multimeters are not very accurate at very low ohms readings so I doubt there is problem. Does the meter zero when the test leads are shorted ?
The voltage readings you took at the coil terminals already suggest that there is nothing wrong with the primary windings of the coils as you would expect to drop approx. 6 volts across each coil. If one coil is not sparking in spite of the primary winding being OK then I would attempt to measure the resistance of the secondary winding between the HT terminal and either of the primary terminals. You should expect 7500 Ohms or more.
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Does the meter zero when the test leads are shorted ?
Hi Barry, yes meter is at zero when I touch the meter leads.
Isn't odd though to have one rising and the other falling when cranked?
I'll try again to measure the secondary. I managed to read 6540 [ch937] on one, but could get anything on the other.
Can I stick any bit of metal down into the coil HT cable socket to get a connection and then measure from that to either of the primary terminals?
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Can I stick any bit of metal down into the coil HT cable socket to get a connection and then measure from that to either of the primary terminals?
Yes that should be fine.
Technically I think you should measure between the HT and terminal 15 because one end of the secondary winding is connected to 15 but in practice it doesn't matter because using terminal 1 just adds 1.5 ohms to many thousands of ohms which is of no consequence.
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Honestly
I would just replace the points and condenser and replace the 2 coil with one and a fresh set of plugs and wires
This is just normal maintenance in the days when this bike was new
It was called a tune up
$135 bucks and your good for another ten years
At least with the ignition :o
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Tom,
Go at any car scrap yard and ask for a two output coil from a petrol car. Measure the primary to ensure the value is the correct one for your points. It will cost you around 10 € will be available now and will last a lifetime. If the guy is helpfull, you could choice the one with the better fitting system for your bike.
I devised something with a Fiat Punto coil (magneti Marelli ) for my Hall and ICU ignition system.
Just my 2 ¢
BTW, did you get the registration papers ?
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Update -
took some new readings today -
rear mounted coil: primary res = 1.5 [ch937], secondary 6,54 K[ch937]
front mounted coil: primary res = 1.5 [ch937], secondary 6,58 K[ch937]
Resistance of spark plug leads 5,11 K[ch937] and 4,75 K[ch937]
checked sparks again and the plug connected to the rear coil was still not sparking (as previously).
I had assumed there were no sparkplug issues as they had only been in a few months and the engine only running 20 minutes during that period, but I put in a new plug which sparked and it started up......
So might have been the issue all along?
Started a few times since then and got it running again (though not easily), on the last occasion I had to turn it off as the engine started racing (with no throttle) - carburetor?
actually I subsequently realized that I was simply running out of petrol...
Also noticed that the left hand side of the engine was warmer than the right - could this be something else to be concerned about?
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BTW, did you get the registration papers ?
Hi Georges,
I've made a little progress in as much I have decided to go down the "vehicle de collection" route (FFVE)- got the dossier together and ready to send off. This should get me my "Certificat d'immatriculation de Collection" which takes the place of the CoC, then onto ANTS and form Cerfa 13750.
The thing I still need is the attestation stating that light and speedo have been changed which an approved dealer should be able to produce, though I haven't had any positive responses yet...
Speedo is changed, and I just need to order an new lens for the front light - BMWBayer has one for €23,99 (Product.Nr. 6312541) so I'll probably go with that.
I like your idea for sourcing coils from a breakers yard and may look into that if things start playing up again.
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Also noticed that the left hand side of the engine was warmer than the right - could this be something else to be concerned about?
Yes it is
That cylinder is misfiring
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That cylinder is misfiring
So could swapping the spark plug leads and then swapping the coils and seeing whether the fault follows these changes to the other side be a sensible method to see whether this is an electrical problem?
Also, it is the same side that I get a very slow drip from the carburetor if the fuel tap is left on - could this be related to a possible misfiring on this cylinder?
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Managed to start this morning, and took it for a short ride (about 2,5km) It's not cold weather
What I noticed on that short ride was that as soon as I tried to turn the choke off the bike would not run smoothly (certainly not full power).
It would run ok again once I put the choke back on.
I tried this a few times during my short journey with the same results.
Once home, I pulled the plugs and both were very sooty.....
Any ideas of what may be causing this???
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Sounds like carburetor(s) may have obstructed passages...
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Sounds like carburetor(s) may have obstructed passages...
Is there any particular order I should check for blockages - is it oversimplifying things to think that because a sooty sparkplug indicates an overrich mix, that the blockage would be an air blockages?
Also one other issue I had which I have just remembered, is that while rebuilding the carbs with the motobins kit which comes with 5 'o'rings, (with no indication where they go) I found a YouTube video which indicated the smallest 2 rings went on the idle speed screw and the idle jet.
I couldn't get the smallest ring onto the idle jet (it broke), so I figured I was trying the wrong 'o' ring and so took the next size up (which according the video I watched should have gone onto the choke shaft - and which was spare, as I didn't open up the choke) - as I write this its feeling like this could be at least a part of problem........
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I couldn't get the smallest ring onto the idle jet (it broke), so I figured I was trying the wrong 'o' ring and so took the next size up (which according the video I watched should have gone onto the choke shaft - and which was spare, as I didn't open up the choke) - as I write this its feeling like this could be at least a part of problem........
The O ring itself is not going to cause such a big problem but you have given us a possible clue by mentioning the chokes were not examined. I would remove them to check they are correctly assembled as it's possible a previous owner has not done this correctly. It's worth eliminating anyway.
The internal choke disc has a pear shaped slot which should always be at the top of the disc with the narrow end pointing towards the cylinder head. If they are both like that they are correctly assembled.
If chokes are fine then first thing I'd check is needles are in the correct position.
Pic of choke disc below shown in the fully off position.
Can you clarify exactly when it runs poorly without choke e.g does it idle OK but not run correctly at wider throttle openings.
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Thanks for the diagram Barry.
I'll open up the choke and have a look - in fact I am the previous owner (sort of) - I've the bike since 1997 and used for 8 years before moving to france where the bike has not been used for 14 years....
I've got the flat top carbs, for which I think the needles are meant to be 3 clicks in - which is how I put them back. But its possible that this was not there previous setting.....Is it worth trying 2 clicks, or shall I just clean first?
With no choke it doesn't idle or run well at higher speeds.
Thanks for the help
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Removed the pilot jets - both side blocked, and now running much better.
It was obviously stupid for me to run the engine after rebuilding the carbs and before sorting out the flaky petrol tank!!
Still not idling though, but hopefully this is just a matter of adjusting the idle speed - I'll have a look at this next.
Also noticed I've still got one side hotter than the other.
I swapped the spark plug leads, and it went to the other side so I'll get some new leads on order.
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The idle jets may need some attention .
The metered orifice at the end can get clogged and is very difficult to tell whether it is clear or not .
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The idle jets may need some attention .
The metered orifice at the end can get clogged and is very difficult to tell whether it is clear or not .
Is the idle jet the one I've just had out and was referring to the pilot jet?
And is the metering orifice the restricted part of the hole?
Can you recommend a good way of cleaning?
At the moment I've blasted with carb. cleaner and can see through.
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No you cleaned the main jet, the idle jet is just inside the carb from the idle mixture adjustment .
It has a screwdriver slot to remove it .
It's a thin tube with two sets of holes drilled into it the very end of it has the metered hole .
When you check it, use carb cleaner with an extender tube, place it in the hole with the srcewdriver slot, cover the four holes in the tube, the cleaner will come out of the very end if it's clear .
I have not found a sure way of clearing it if it is clogged .
I've got an ultrasonic cleaner now, I'll try that if I ever have this happen again .
I've installed pleated paper element fuel filters and since then no issues .
https://www.chapmoto.com/visu-filter-fuel-filter-861c-315-1916?msclkid=c17101ec342615917fb05d3479f25daa&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=BPA%20-%20Items%20-%20Vehicles%20%26%20Parts&utm_term=4581183922797001&utm_content=BPA%20Item%20-%20Visu-Filter%7CVehicles%20%26%20Parts%7C0-50%7CC%3A70
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Is the idle jet the one I've just had out and was referring to the pilot jet?
Two names for the same jet.
Strictly speaking this jet supplies the pilot circuit so I call it a pilot jet. It does more than just provide the idle mixture. As the fuel pass through the jet it gets mixed with air entering from those holes in the side of the jet. This mixture then passes into the venturi though a small hole restricted by the idle mixture screw.
I've never had the pilot jet get blocked, if you can see through it it's probably OK. But I often have problems with the air feed to this jet getting blocked with condensate from the engine breather. So as well as checking the jet is clear blow through the air passage from the intake end of the carb. If you look there you will see two small holes near the base. The larger one provides auxiliary air to the needle jet and the smaller one provides auxiliary air to the pilot jet.
You can see how this works diagrammatically on this generic CV carb diagram although here they call it a slow jet.
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ok, well the pilot / idle jet has been cleaned, but its probably worth me looking at the main jets again as well?
Still not idling well once warmed up (idles well with choke on).
The cooler side spark plug is sooting up still, and the warmer side looks this - does this look like its getting too hot?
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Still having intermittent starting issues.
What tends to happen is that unless it starts first time from cold, then it won't start.
Also noticed that the right side is always dry, and the left side often wet.
Is the wet or dry side that is likely to need adjustment and what might the adjustment be....
Over the last few days when I have got it going, it actually runs quite nicely (apart from not idling with no choke once warm)
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Starting technique can be an issue at times, half to full 'choke ' don't add any throttle until it fires off .
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Have you checked the fuel level in the carbs ? And the fuel flow ?
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Starting technique can be an issue at times, half to full 'choke ' don't add any throttle until it fires off .
don't think I'm doing anything wrong there - though I am on full choke - I'll try a bit less.
Have you checked the fuel level in the carbs ? And the fuel flow ?
flow is good to carbs, and levels look ok.
I do get a hanging drip appear on the left carb if the petrol is left on.
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So it seems your fuel valve is not closing well. Worn tip or worn out siege ?
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Thought I'd pop out my main jet for cleaning while waiting for new spark plug leads to arrive.
Tried to do in-situ with carb on the bike; is it normal that the atomiser doesn't drop out?
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Not normal but not unusual as the top part sticks up through a hole into the venturi. Depending how tightly it's stuck in the hole you might have to remove the piston and needle to press it out.
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Do not leave the fuel tap in the 'ON' position, if you are parking the bike like overnight .
If the float needle doesn't close, fuel seeps into the carb, intake fill a cylinder and also seep into the oil sump .
Also do not let the bike stay on the side stand for extended periods .
You may also want to check to see if the fuel taps actually shuts off fuel flow .
My red LS, the fuel tap in the off position allowed enough fuel to run the engine .
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I'm importing my uk R65 (1979) into France and so need to change the head light glass.
I've got the replacement glass, and wanted to check whether there are any tips to separate the current glass from the reflector? Obviously I'm hoping to to have to replace the rubber gasket....
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Well,
The gasket is dead anyway. So I just cut the gasket open, put the glass on a safe place, then carefully clean the reflector rim, then do the same with the old glass in order to be able to reuse it...
I talc the new gasket hoping it will help disassembly next time, but have not tested yet...
Count your fingers before the procedure and ensure you have the same number after the procedure... :-?
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I forgot,
The gasket for the /5 glass is cheaper than the gasket for the R65 and they are identical.
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Thanks Georges
In fact it looks pretty cheap on Motobins (£4.20) - see attached.
Does that look like the correct piece? I'm sure I saw it somewhere else for over 30€...?
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The gasket is dead anyway
Do you say this because its likely to be old? - it still feels quite rubbery. But I'm still unsure how to get it apart - is there a technique, start at the metal lug..?
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ell, the gasket death is because it is stuck so hard on the reflector. You will cut some piece of it if you pull hard to unstuck from the reflector.
The heath from the bulb heats the reflector and cooks the rubber hard. I never had a chance saving a gasket if it is stuck on the reflector.
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Forgot,
The cheap one if for /5 an R65. The £30 should be the one for the R65 on the fiche.
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Anyone ever try Duane Ausherman's advise on this gasket
https://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/headlight/index.htm
"In the absence of a proper gasket, black plastic, or cloth electrical tape will work. Probably any "thick" tape would work"?
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Well, the gasket is available from BMW and it's dealers, not too expensive and perfectly suited for the job. I would go OEM here...
Re-reading my post, I see I'm not clear. The cheap one is the /5 one. It fits perfectly the R65 headlight (same diameter and same make). During a long time there was no gasket listed for the R65 in the fiche.
I bet someone asked BMW and they put one on the fiche for a bigger price than the /5 suited one.
Talc the new one it make it slippery. It may help in the future removal.
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I'll add the seal to my next motobins order...
Well, I finally got the old glass off in one piece, after over an hour of scraping with blade between the glass and reflector to remove the fully baked on seal!
While we're on the subject of front light, I have one I need to sell which was sold to me as a 1979 R65 model, but is not. Its larger (about 180 diam) and has different shaped body - see photo.
Could anyone hazard a guess as to what model this might be for, so that I can list it properly and not get another disappointed buyer....
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IMHO it from an R65 but a mono. So it will fit an R65, R80 or R100 after 1986 or an R80, R100 before 1986....
Didn't told you about the baked rubber ? Did you loose any finger ? :D ;D
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Did you loose any finger ? :D ;D
still got all my fingers [smiley=thumbup.gif],[smiley=thumbup.gif]
While I await arrival of my new spark plug leads, I'm looking at my brake light. The light used to come on for the back brake, but now it is intermittent (and at the moment I'm getting nothing at all).
Could someone tell where to locate the back brake relay and how to test it..
I think the front switch (hydraulic pressure type) is also broken. I vaguely remember from when I had the biking running 15 years ago that I had to disconnect one of the wires to stop the brake light from being constantly on.
Again is there a way of testing this, or do those symptoms already indicate that its broken and needs replacing.
Thanks for any help
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I managed to locate the rear brake relay hidden behind the plate on which the passenger foot-peg is located - difficult to remove......
Good news is that on cleaning it up the relay started working again so now just got to try and remount - first bolt easy, second one blind through a hole without enough height for a 'normal' screwdriver....
I would suppose that the back brake is the essential one to have working - I think the bike even past its uk MOT with the front brake not lighting the brake light - possible?
So it will fit an R65, R80 or R100 after 1986 or an R80, R100 before 1986....
sold that front light in less than a minute of uploading for sale!!
New sparkplug leads arrived today, so I'll see later whether this has improved my starting issues.
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Tom, the thing you removed is not a relay. It is the switch for the rear brake light.
Is there a little hole in the brake handle on the right handlebar ? Like the one on the clutch side ? If yes you can convert to the post 1981 brake switch t the handlebar by screwing that little switch on the bar and putting the two wires from the OEM "wet" switch to it.
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the thing you removed is not a relay. It is the switch for the rear brake light.
'switch' or 'relay' thats the same thing isn't it....or is a relay an electronically controlled switch? yes probably, anyway cleaned the rear brake light switch up and its re-installed and working again.
The bike is pre '81, so its the hydraulic pressure activated switch that I need to replace if I want the front brake to activate the rear brake light - but not is a hurry to do that as I've just flushed the front brakes and renewed the brake fluid....
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I would suppose that the back brake is the essential one to have working - I think the bike even past its uk MOT with the front brake not lighting the brake light - possible?
The front brake provides the vast majority of braking power, moreso as you brake harder and the weight transfers forward. Ideally both should light the lamp, but if I had to pick one I'd pick the front.
Can't speak to the legal thing, but here in Texas they asked me to use the front and rear brakes separately to show the light.
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For motorcycles built before 1986 there was no requirement for the front brake to operate the brake light so it might not fail an MOT if it didn't work. A knowledgable tester might augue that if it's fitted it should work but how many testers are going to know 40 year old bikes in that detail.
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New spark plugs leads installed and initially still not starting.
After recharging the battery and trying again that evening there was initially nothing, but then in frustration I tried I little throttle and bingo, it started. And ran nicely and was able to turn choke off (although still not able to idle) - went for a very nice 10km run.
Could this be related to my idling problem (i.e. that it won't idle at stand still stalling even when warmed up, though with a tiny amount of throttle it idles v. smoothly)?
today's update - now won't run at all with out choke, and then with limited power.
checked both idle jets which were clean - time to take the chokes apart?
As always thanks for any suggestions
(b.t.w. new tyres fitted - thanks to Georges Giralt for the advice on choice and Tony Smith for the wheel removal technique)
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Well this appears pretty serious and may explain all the issues I've been having.
Whilst removing my plugs to check again whether they were fouled, I noticed something in the combustion chamber! see photo.
Is that a piston ring thats come off? - pretty serious. Obviously I won't try and start again until I've had some feedback from here.....
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Well this appears pretty serious
I have no depth perspective but looks like a valve. What ever it is your quote is right on !!
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It's normal to be able to see the valve through the plug hole - unless of course it's no supposed to be open at point in crankshaft rotation.
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It's normal to be able to see the valve through the plug hole
aha, so this might not be the disaster I feared? Shall I try and gently turn the rear wheel and see if it moves?
If this simply the valve then any ideas on my earlier issues (quoted below) would be appreciated
New spark plugs leads installed and initially still not starting.
After recharging the battery and trying again that evening there was initially nothing, but then in frustration I tried I little throttle and bingo, it started. And ran nicely and was able to turn choke off (although still not able to idle) - went for a very nice 10km run.
Could this be related to my idling problem (i.e. that it won't idle at stand still stalling even when warmed up, though with a tiny amount of throttle it idles v. smoothly)?
today's update - now won't run at all with out choke, and then with limited power.
checked both idle jets which were clean - time to take the chokes apart?
As always thanks for any suggestions
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aha, so this might not be the disaster I feared? Shall I try and gently turn the rear wheel and see if it moves?
Yes and I'd do it with the rocker cover off so that you can see the rockers and valve move together which will eliminate the valve sticking open.
I've forgotten what you have done so far but it would be good to measure the valve clearances at the same time to check they haven't closed up.
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Hi Barry,
Took the rocker cover off, mostly ok - made a couple of small adjustments to the clearances:
These are my outstanding issues (that I'm aware of....)
1/ not starting unless I give a little throttle
2/ not idling (when warm). Though with a tiny touch of throttle it idles nicely - slow and smooth
3/ right plug sooting up a little / left side possibly running hot
Once its running it seems to run quite well......
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After reading Steve Doyles doc. on tuning Bing Carbs, I adjusted the throttle adjust screw following this advice:
"use a thin piece of paper between the throttle adjuster screw and where the screw touches the throttle lever. Set equal opening of the butterflies here. Tighten / loosen the screw until it just grabs the paper. 1/2 to 1 turn tighter (clockwise) is about idle speed."
and this has fixed my idling problem - hopefully I haven't just masked another problem.
My outstanding issue now is the right side misfiring and constantly sooting up that sparkplug. This is what I'm thinking as my next steps:
- possibly running rich (turn in mixture screw (clockwise)) ?
- check float level: A too high fuel level is likely to cause an excessively rich mixture, which quickly fouls the spark plug.
- possibly weak spark resulting from dodgy coil (I'll swap coils and see if it stays on the right side)
- check the choke operation on the carby that is on the side that does not fire up when cold.
Do these all sound like sensible things to investigate?
Thanks for your thoughts....
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My outstanding issue now is the right side misfiring and constantly sooting up that sparkplug. This is what I'm thinking as my next steps:
- possibly running rich (turn in mixture screw (clockwise)) ?
- check float level: A too high fuel level is likely to cause an excessively rich mixture, which quickly fouls the spark plug.
- possibly weak spark resulting from dodgy coil (I'll swap coils and see if it stays on the right side)
- check the choke operation on the carby that is on the side that does not fire up when cold.
Do these all sound like sensible things to investigate?
Float level is first thing to check before any other adjustments are done on the carb. Making sure the enricher is correctly assembled and fully shuts off against the stop is essential too.
I doubt it's the mixture screw if it's close to the base setting of 1/2 a turn out but worth a try if you first make reference mark so you can get it back to the base setting. Yes turn in to weaken.
Quickest ignition check is to swap the leads over from one cylinder to the other without disconnecting anything except pulling the caps off the plugs. If the fault then moves to the other cylinder you can narrow it down my swapping leads at the HT coil. There is no need to physically move the coils.
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Float level looks ok, although I'm finding it difficult to assess accurately due to the spillage I get due to the angle (RHS 13.13 degrees, LHS 17,3 degrees off horizontal), but with a funnel set up underneath, when I pour the spillage back in they are near to 24mm.
Certainly when the float is level with the carb body the flow stops.
Could the difference in mounting angle of the carbs be significant?
The choke on the misfiring side was a touch off the stop tab when fully off, but I have adjusted that now (which now means that the fully open is a touch off that tab, but I guess this is less critical?)
Swapped which coil is connected to which spark plug (with new leads), and I don't think anything has changed - i.e. still misfiring on right side.
I checked the idle jet again which was clear.
Might be worth opening the enricher bits on the right carb?
When checking the spark on the right side, the engine runs on the single left cylinder, but not the other way around.
When I run the bike now, it seems ok at low throttle, but when I open it up I can really feel the lack of power.
A few days ago it was running better, I would say to full power - I went on a 30km round trip with a 1/2 break in the middle with no problems, apart from the fact left side was hotter than the right, and the right spark plug was sooting up, which made starting difficult the next day
Any thoughts for next steps appreciated as always
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when I pour the spillage back in they are near to 24mm
Anywhere between 22-24mm is fine provided the floats are known good i.e. they are new or you have weighed them.
Could the difference in mounting angle of the carbs be significant?
Not particularly as the main/needle jet are on the central axis so not really affected by the tilt in fuel level.
The choke on the misfiring side was a touch off the stop tab when fully off, but I have adjusted that now (which now means that the fully open is a touch off that tab, but I guess this is less critical?)
Agreed.
Might be worth opening the enricher bits on the right carb?
I think you have to in order to eliminate from enquiries.
Any thoughts for next steps appreciated as always
In principle it's simple; good compression, good spark at the right time and the carbs set correctly should make it run properly.
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Once started it seems to idle quite nice and evenly, so I thought I would check my main jet / needle jet as it is after about 1/4 of the throttle when it seems to struggle (on the right side?).
This wasn't blocked but I did notice a couple of things which may offer a clue as to the problem.
1 - a little bit if oil around the air intake tube - is that normal?
2 - the needle appears to be slightly offset from the centre of the combustion chamber / needle jet assembly.....? see photo
any of that helpful?
edit - on looking at the needle again, it has some play in its mounting, so moves easily to be centred.
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and a photo of the oil on the air intake...
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Have you check cylinder with compression test ? Loosing compression also means loosing power.
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lAlight coating of oil is ormal on the intake tubes, the crankcase breather system vents into the 'horns ' in the airbox .
With the slide all the way down, is there a lot of play between the needle and needle jet, I don't think the needle will be that exposed in most riding conditions .
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The needle are not intendeded to be rigid otherwise aligmnent with the needle jet would be super critical and if not achived cause stiction and wear. As long as there isn't too much vertical play they are probably fine.
The thing to do while they are out is measure the length of exposed needle to confirm both carbs are set the same. There is only approx. 1.8mm diffrence between each click position.
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Hello, thanks for all the comments.
I've sorted my problem of the engine getting lumpy and bogging when accelerating.
I had been assuming that it was the right side which had a problem as that is the side running the cooler of the two.
But after doing a quick check on the idle and main jet on the left (hot) side I found a bit of crud in main jet which has resolved that issue. :)
However even with what feels like full power returned, the left side is still getting hotter than the right.
On a short 5 min ride flicked on water evaporates immediately on the left where as on the right it just slowly evaporates off with no sizzle and I can even lightly touch it after a minute.
Of the two, does this sound more like the right not being hot enough (misfiring?) rather than the left being too hot?
I have swapped the spark plugs and the left remains the hotter side.
I have swapped the leads (which are new) and the left remains the hotter side :-/
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One further thing I've just noticed is that the right (cooler) side runs fastest with the mix screw fully closed......
actually to be more precise, the screw position doesn't seem to changed much, until at fully seated idles significantly faster - too fast
Barry, I will check the needle lengths this week as I understand that this behavior could be a symptom of unequal needle installation.
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If I’m not mistaken, fully closed mix screw means rich idle setting. CMiIW.
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If I’m not mistaken, fully closed mix screw means rich idle setting. CMiIW.
Closed idle mixture screw would be lean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyspAHrMbb8
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Thanks for the carb animation wilcom
I’ve checked the needle position which is correct for my 1979 flat top carbs - clip position 3 with 2.66 needle jet.
So presumably if I am able to idle with the mixture screw fully closed and choke off, this means that fuel is accessing the combustion chamber in some way that it shouldn’t…..?
Given that the idle speeds up when fully seated this feels inconsistent with a damaged tip to the mix screw, so does this only leave a faulty choke as the possible source of fuel, or at least the most likely?
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So presumably if I am able to idle with the mixture screw fully closed and choke off, this means that fuel is accessing the combustion chamber in some way that it shouldn’t…..?
Given that the idle speeds up when fully seated this feels inconsistent with a damaged tip to the mix screw, so does this only leave a faulty choke as the possible source of fuel, or at least the most likely?
I agree it's unlikely to be the mixture screw. The choke certainly is a possibility and should be checked for correct assembly but it's more often something else like an air leak or faulty O ring. You have to wonder how air and fuel get past a closed throttle plate and closed mixture screw but there is a path through the auxiliary air passage and transfer ports.
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Well, it looks like that carb is coming off and the choke taken apart.
I have a 30 mile each way trip to make to get to my nearest BMW dealer to get a document I need for importing, do you think that doing that sort if distance is likely to be ok - it generally feels good to ride....?
I also have a few small oil leaks some of which could be due to when the cylinders were taken apart at the beginning of this project, they were put back together without a torque wrench....
Should I try and fix first by torquing correctly, or would it more sensible to buy motobins top end gasket and seal set (2xhead gasket, 2x rocker cover gaskets, 2x barrel base o-rings, 4x pushrod tube grommits and 4x barrel stud o-rings)?
There is also a drip which forms on the drive-shaft gaiter - see last photo - it forms on the underside of the gaiter then runs down swing arm and ends up on the bevel drive oil drain plug.
Is this one I could try and simply do up the clip?
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A trace of oil is nothing to worry about. Before the trip I would slacken off the head bolts half a turn and re-torque. If it still leaks you can address it later. What figure are you planning to use for head torque ? Given the propensity for threads to pull out of the crankcase I chicken out at 23ft/bs and have never had leaks or any other problem. Definitely don't go above 25ft/lbs. I would also re-use a nearly new head gasket and have never replaced a rocker cover gasket in 14 years because they don't leak a drop
If you are buying parts you might want to get a new speedo drive rubber to keep water out of the gearbox.
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I was going to use my HAYNES manual 3 stage process - 11, then 26, then 29,5 lbf ft (models upto 1980), but by the sounds of it I would be wise not to go this tight - maybe 11, 19 and 23?
I'll add the speedo drive rubber to my list.
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Well 23 was me being chicken but definitely don't go above 25. No one uses 29 ftlbs. The first 2 stage figures aren't critical so whatever is in proportion to the final figure will be fine.
As general comment, you can't always trust figures from a Haynes manual. It's not their fault as they just copied it from a BMW manual which also contains some worse errors like the smaller flywheel bolts which are pretty much guaranteed to shear if you follow the book figures. Always better to step back and consider if it sounds right for the size of the bolt and if in doubt ask.
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Just got me some new NGK BPR7ES sparkplugs, and have found out the hard way that there are different terminal types!!! Thought they could all be unscrewed - apparently not. Well thats a waste of €17!! (pack of 4)
I doubt the shop will take them back with the cut packaging.
Anyone know if there is any chance of 'forcing' the 'solid' ones off?
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Having just changed the plugs and done the valve clearance on the '83 LS I would like to comment.
Firstly, I never back off the head bolts and just verify the torque (I use 25 Foot-Pounds). They always seem to be properly torqued.
Secondly, I replaced the old plugs with NGK BP7ES and the top terminal unscrew no problem. I thought the "R" plugs were not to be used in the r 65 motors?
FWIW
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Yes, the last ones I bought simply unscrewed, but a quick google reveals that there are 3 types; solid, loose and stud (don't know if this is a recent thing), and the solid do not unscrew....unhelpfully they all have the same reference.
See this explanation: https://youtu.be/zCIE4_DubXo
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Hello !
The "R" plugs have a resistor in them. If you use OEM cable, there will be 2 resistor in series... So either stick with the "non" R or change for plain plug wires and caps.
As per the torque figures, BMW being German, they use metric values and are foreign to Imperial units. So expect at least wrong conversion or completely false values... I would stick to the metric value for critical work. But it's just me ...
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Hi Georges,
I have new leads from Motobins which have NGK caps (similar I believe to OEM leads) needing a 'stud' end to the plug - which plug should I be looking for that?
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Well, NGK make plug head with and without resistor in it... So you have to devise a way to know what P/N they are and look at the NGK site to check, or ask Motobins ...
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OK for those who need NGK BPR7ES plug with a removable resister/terminal you need to make sure you order the full reference NGK 2023 BPR7ES, otherwise you might end up like me with NGK 3785 BPR7ES plugs which have the resistors fitted on permanently......lets see if the shop will take them back....
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With regards to your oil leak on the rear clamp on the rubber boot .
What I see, is a stainless steel clamp worm gear clamp, the OEM clamps are a dull gray soft steel with two ears and a very small screw to tighten it up .
The rear clamp has to conform to the twists for that installation, stainless is not flexible enough to do this, I've tried .
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Hi Bob_Roller,
ok this could be the reason I have a drip here although I think the clamp has been on the bike for all the time I have owned it (22 years....)
I'll add a narrower clamp to my next motobins order.
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As general comment, you can't always trust figures from a Haynes manual. It's not their fault as they just copied it from a BMW manual which also contains some worse errors like the smaller flywheel bolts which are pretty much guaranteed to shear if you follow the book figures. Always better to step back and consider if it sounds right for the size of the bolt and if in doubt ask.
Can anyone recommend a setting for 1979 drive shaft oil drain plug which my haynes manual gives as 14 -17 Nm (or 10 - 12,5 lbf ft) and the bevel drive oil drain plug which it gives as 23 -26 Nm.
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Tales of stripped drain and fill plugs are not unheard of on the various airhead forums which doesn't surprise me given the book values. In my opinion 17 to 20 ftlbs is way to high for any of the drain or fill plugs. I probably use lower than most people with 10ftlbs for them all except the drive shaft fill and drain plugs which I do by feel. If I used a torque wrench I'd set it to 8 or 9 ftlbs at the most. I have never had one leak or fall out, well not since 1972 and I don't think I tightened that one properly.
When you have done a few oil changes and loosened a drain plug that you previously torqued, the force required is a useful bit of feedback about the whether they were tight enough. I've always found that they were.
I'm sure others will use higher torque values but I very much doubt anyone uses the higher figure of the stated range.
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I've always done mine by hand and never to tight. Just make sure i use a good washer.
I think they get tighter not loose.
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I agree, I don't torque drain plugs .
I tighten by hand and then use a plastic/rubber hammer to tap it and snug it down .
Don't do this on the overflow plug at the back of the final drive, or the drain plugs on the fork . :o
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OK for those who need NGK BPR7ES plug with a removable resister/terminal you need to make sure you order the full reference NGK 2023 BPR7ES, otherwise you might end up like me with NGK 3785 BPR7ES plugs which have the resistors fitted on permanently......lets see if the shop will take them back....
No you do not want resistor plugs
NGK BP"R"7ES are resistor type plugs and the resistor is not removable
You want plugs that do not have a "R" in the part number
If you are using resistor caps 1K Ohm or 5K Ohm
NGK
BP6ES
BP7ES
Bosch
W5DC
W6DC
Champion
N7YC (Stock #813)
N9YC (Stock #300)
Beru
14-6D (but you will only find them New Old Stock)
All of these plugs should have the tips that unscrew to reveal a threaded post
At least that has been my experience
Do not go by what the spark plug application books tell you
They will often say to use resistor plugs
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NGK BP"R"7ES are resistor type plugs and the resistor is not removable
Just checked with MOTObins and they confirmed that the plugs the recommend for my bike are the NGK (BPR7ES) Code: 05300N BMW: 12 12 1 338 146.
But they need to be the 2023 type as a mentioned previously to ensure that the tips are removable.
Though to avoid the confusion its probably safer to follow Mrclubike's advice and go for BP7ES
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I messed up on this early on with my '81 R65.
I was on vacation visiting relatives in the western suburbs of Boston in September, 1990 .
A local independent foreign auto parts store was closing, I got a set of 4 Bosch WR6DP, platinum plug .
Paid $4US for them .
Ran those plugs for 4 years, no issues with the ignition system .
If by chance you have used resistor plugs or currently have them installed, at least in my case nothing detrimental happened .
With the cost of platinum plugs these days, I just use the BP7ES plugs .
After all these bikes are just ' farm implements " after all !!! ;D
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just fitting my new headlight seal between glass and reflector - can anyone advise me on the positioning of the gasket.
What I've done at the moment feels wrong - too much visible beyond the chrome ring - see photo.
Duane Ausherman's site talks about the ribs on the seal going against the glass which could be where I'm going wrong, but also just can't find any photo of how the gasket should sit on the glass before I push it together with reflector.
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pretty sure its wrong - trouble is I can't get the glass separated from the the reflector now......probably makes I good seal....
I think I'll have to cut off the protruding part as I can't fit the rim over it.... >:(
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Has anyone got any advice on fitting my new hydraulic pressure activated front brake switch.
Presumably if I leave the master cylinder cap on only a limited amount of fluid will come out when I unscrew the old switch.
(I'll be sure to bleed the system after installation)
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OK here's a summary of my outstanding right cylinder issue
on start up it tends to run mainly(?) on left cylinder
With the right spark out, the engine will run on just the left cylinder - this is not the case on the other side
The right cylinder mixture screw doesn’t effect idle speed - it idles even turned fully in.
Whilst riding it appears to run well on both cylinders especially when accelerating, though cruising it tends to become a lumpy (both at 30 and 60 MPH (and inbetween)) which I assume is my right cylinder not firing all the time?
This is what I have done so far:
- O rings, gaskets and diaphragms changed on carbs (all all cleaned out-jets all clear)
- I have the choke apart - could see nothing wrong, but replace o ring and gasket
- checked for air leaks - could see no problem
- float level - ok at 23mm
- needles are both 3 clicks in
- New spark plug leads
- swapped leads so coils are swapped - problem stayed on right
- swapped spark plugs themselves - problem stayed on the right.
- checked valve clearances
So things left to check:
pressure test and timing - I don’t how to do this, so may need to take to a garage
I also want to re-torque the right (problematic) cylinder head as there is oil seeping at the engine body - see photos
first photo show a small pool on the top of the cylinder where is meets the body, and the second a drip on a sump bolt which I’m pretty sure has run down from above.
Can inadequately torqued cylinder heads result in loss of pressure and this side mis firing?
The heads were removed at the beginning of this project as a friend helped me release a seized piston (the seizing happened at some point over the 12 years the bike was unused in my shed) and put back without a torque wrench.
As I type this I’m wondering whether the seizing has left this side with some resistance between piston and cylinder - the cylinder was very lightly sanded to remove the slight marking from the seizing……I don't recall which side was seized, but there's a 50% chance its my problem right side......
whats my next move - re-torque of that cylinder, then reset valve clearances?
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Your right cylinder is not running at idle, but when you advance the throttle it starts firing .
Your idle circuit is not providing fuel .
I mentioned something about this earlier, I would swap the idle/pilot jet between carbs and see if the problem follows the jet that was in the right carb .
While you have the idle /pilot jet removed from the right carb, I would remove the idle mixture needle, and place a finger over the hole where the idle/pilot jet goes take can of carb cleaner with the extender tube installed and spray it where the needle goes and see if the cleaner comes out in the carb throat .
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spray it where the needle goes and see if the cleaner comes out in the carb throat .
Make sure it is coming out the air orifice on the outside of the carb, no air in there will be no fuel out. Bob Roller put me wise to this one a while back when I had one carb that quite idling nicely
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STOP !!!!
Don't do anything else until you do a Compression check on both cylinders
And tell us what you find
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ok I'll get going with a compression test.
would this be the correct procedure?
- engine hot
- spark plugs out (and grounded?)
- throttle fully open and hold the slide up while cranking, or just remove the carburetor altogether.
- turn over (5-6 times) to obtain reading
couple of questions - do both spark plugs need to come out at once, or can I do one at a time? I assume they need to both come out as otherwise the engine may run on one cylinder?
If this is case do I need to rig up some earth connector for each plug, or can I simply disconnect the positive leads to the coils?
I'll report back once I've got a gauge.
In the meantime.......
FLUID ON FRONT FORKS
I've noticed some oil has appeared on my right side fork shock absorber after a bumby ride on a country lane - is this question of tightening something, or replacing a seal....?
see photo
INSTALLING FRONT BRAKE PRESSURE SWITCH
Also still got to do this job - do I need to drain master cylinder before starting this?
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Fork seal will require replacement .
The pressure switch is below the master cylinder, depending on how fast you can remove and replace the switch, all of the fluid from the switch and the reservoir on the master cyclinder will drain out .
You could drain the entire front brake system, put a hose on each of the bleeder screws on the calipers, open the bleeders and let the fluid drain into a container .
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Hello Tom,
If you remove the positive wire to the coils, no need to ground the plugs.
IMHO, it is better to disconnect the carbs during the compression test.g
As per the forks, if you change the seals, a complete dismantling, cleaning and reassembling may be useful ;-)
Have you got the BMW paper for the registration ?
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For compression test, you can pull out both spark plugs, and grounded it on engine fins, with lead attached still.
With open throttle, start cranking couple of times until peak steady reading.
If you have less pressure, you may try to pour in a tea spoon engine oil in to the cylinder via spark plug hole. And retest with cranking to see if the pressure will eventually increased.
If it is increase than you may have piston ring failure. If still low, than other problem is suspected.
Suppose the normal would be around 9 Barg. While 8 Barg is still acceptable.
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Thanks again for everyone's input
While you have the idle /pilot jet removed from the right carb, I would remove the idle mixture needle, and place a finger over the hole where the idle/pilot jet goes take can of carb cleaner with the extender tube installed and spray it where the needle goes and see if the cleaner comes out in the carb throat .
Whilst waiting for my compression test I cleaned the idle circuits as suggested which did seem to improve idling on that side, but has introduced a new problem.....
Now when idling (but also at higher revs), the engine suddenly drops to nothing - I've never seen anything like this behavior before, its feels quite different - maybe electrical? - both sides suddenly drop to nothing. Sometimes if revs are high enough it cut back in again, sometimes it'll stall - Not really sure where to start with this one - as always any ideas appreciated.
Have you got the BMW paper for the registration ?
Hi Georges, not quite; I'm waiting until these last few tweaks have been made to increase my chances of making it all the way to the garage and back (to get my attestation stating speedo and light have been changed). but I've got both front and back brakes operating the light now, and my headlight seal seemed to go alright in the end :)
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Tom, when you suspect it is carburetor, in fact it is the ignition and when you suspect it is the ignition, in fact it s the carburetor...
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My previous post's electrical problem is resolved - There was a loose connection in the bean can (first time in there so that was quite exciting....)
Today's issue is my left hand throttle cable has an issue.
I noticed that the revs seemed a little slower in releasing, so was looking around the cables, and noticed that the inner grey sheath of the left side throttle cable has slipped through at the connection to the carb - see photo.
Is this something I may be able to fix, or is a cable replacement the only option?
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I don't think there is much you can do with that cable to repair it .
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Hi all
heres an update of the bikes situation.
generally running pretty well
My friend arrives this weekend and brings with him his compression testing kit, so hopefully some interesting news to follow shortly on that front.....
In the meantime, I still have an issue on the right side with that spark plug sooting up more than it should and also the idle adjustment screw not cutting out that side when turned all the way in, but instead running faster when turned all the way in....?
Any pointers on what to look at regarding that carb?
pretty sure all the passages are clear.
Could this behavior be related to a possible loss of pressure on this side?
Thanks as always
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Compression does rise with engine speed, oil and throttle Opening.
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Hello
Here's a quick update for anyone who has been following/helping my project....
My right hand spark fouling up turned out to be a blocked slow air jet on the carburetor - cleared and all running much smoother now!!
(also successfully moved onto French plates.....which hasn't boosted my performance....)
So generally pretty good, and next job is to replace my leaking fork seals for which I would appreciate some help.
I'm hoping to follow a video tutorial (for a R100CS fork seal replacement) see link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9AfQOrwEeY
which doesn't take the whole forks apart, just the following;
1/ front wheel off
2/ release dampener rod allen screw lower leg fastener
3/ slip off the fork lower leg
4/ pop out the old seal and replace
5/ put back together and refill with oil
does sound sound about right?
I have some Multi ATF which is described as equivalent to DEXRON III H. Should that be ok for the fork oil?
My haynes manuel says 190cc for each fork and also 30 - 40 Nm to torque up the dampener rod allen screw...?
Any hints appreciated
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1/ front wheel off
2/ release dampener rod allen screw lower leg fastener
3/ slip off the fork lower leg
4/ pop out the old seal and replace
5/ put back together and refill with oil
does sound sound about right?
Yes, no need to remove the stanchions and risk losing alignment.
If the Allen screw just spins then the damper rod is rotating and you may need to drop a socket on a long extension down from the top to hold the damper rod still while you undo the Allen screw. An impact gun would certainly get it loose without having to do that. Even just tapping the Allen key with a small hammer will sometimes shock the screw loose. ATF may be a little thick but worth a try if you have some. 190cc is correct but I prefer to measure the level with a dipstick touching the top of the damper rod. From memory the Level should be between 20mm and 50mm but you can check that in Haynes. You can tune the forks between that range as it is effectively changing the air spring when the forks are compressed.
Don't overtighten the Allen screw as next time it can mean that instead of coming loose the damper piston unscrews off the top of the damper rod.
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Hi Barry , I got the rotating damper rod!!
do you know the length extender I'll need to reach and the size of the socket to hold the top end of the damper rod bolt
I read somewhere that it was 13mm?
I have an extension that around 25cm....
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13mm is correct. As you will have to remove the top plugs and springs, the fork leg can be collapsed to reduce the length of socket extention needed. I can't give you an exact length but 25cm is in the ball park. I need to string a couple of shorter ones together.
Did you try to shock the Allen screw loose ? Given that it's only pressure from the main spring that resists rotation of the whole damper rod, another option to try is to increase that pressure by compressing the leg by hand while trying to undo the screw. Not easy and possibly a two man job.
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Hi Barry, thanks, thats I what I did - pushed up and then suddenly it decided to come undone.
Seal out and replaced, but now I find myself not being able to tight.....is there any chance that compressing the leg again may help - or would that only work once filled with oil again?
Could I fill with oil at this stage?
If not, I suppose I'll have to remove the 'top plug and springs' not sure what this is....is that the bit where I have to push down to remove the circlip and also be carefull to put back in the same position (damn, I was hoping to avoid all that.....)
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still stuck on doing up that first side, but in the meantime have taken the other side apart to find quite messy splodge on what I think is the damper rod seat - see photo
Is this something disintegrated which needs replacing?
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Also, with the first side I took apart I hadn't noticed that the 'damper rod seat' (if thats the right name for the tube /disk piece which sits on the end of the damper rod) had come off with the lower leg, so I went ahead and replaced the seal.
Now having tapped the leg a few times and got the 'seat' to fall out its revealed a load of grime in that leg as well which needs cleaning out without buggering up the new seal (which all the grime will need to come past). Any suggestions on how to clean out the inside of the lower leg appreciated.
Lastly, I don't see any of the other items further up damper rod which are listed in my haynes manual (circlip, shim, valve housing, valve washer, perforated washer & buffer) or this all hidden further up the damper rod?
see Items 12 to 17 on the attached diagram.
My damper rod seat (item 18) is also a different shape....?
Thanks
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Tom, You should be able to tighten it again by compressing the leg. I know there is a torque spec but it only has to be tight enough for the leg not to fall off and tight enough for the oil not to leak past the washer.
To remove the top plug if you need to, push the plug down against the spring pressure until the wire circlip is exposed, dislodge the circlip with a small screw driver and fish it out. The plug will then pop up when you release it.
The damper rod seat is called the top hat for obvious reasons. Besides holding the damper rod central they are usually tapered if not as much as the illustration shows. The reason for this is that on full compression of the forks the tapered section of the top hat enters the valve body and restricts the flow of oil to act as a hydraulic bump stop.
The sludge may be what's left of the topping out bump stop which is item 12 in your illustration. They were originally made of black rubber and it's highly likely to have disintegrated especially if the forks have never been apart before. The valve body assembly which you don't see comprises items 12 through to 17 and lives up inside the fork stanchion. Remove the large circlip item 17 and the valve body will drop out. It can be done with the main spring in place but be careful as the spring will push it out.
Might as well go the whole hog now having found the sludge.
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Hi Barry, I'm going try again to get to grab a bit more by compressing the leg - at the moment its turning easily....
What about cleaning the grime out from inside the lower legs - its difficult to get out as its mainly near the bottom end with the narrower diameter - i.e. I can't just pull a rag through.
Is trying to out with water a possibility?
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I wouldn't wash it out with water, at least not in the first instance, perhaps a very hot water and detergent rinse to finish off. You need a solvent that will dissolve the crude. I'd use whatever you have to hand, paraffin, diesel, or even white spirit.
If you are not intending to remove and inspect the valve body assembly to see if the topping out bushes are still there, then at least measure the length of damper rod protruding from the stanchions. If they are not the same length then one of the bushes has disintegrated for sure. The bushes are intended to absorb the shock of the forks reaching full extension although there is also a hydraulic bump stop effect if the forks are working properly. In the very worst case it's not unknown for repeated topping out shocks to shear off the damper piston.
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Hello
Update from my R65 project which has been running well for the last year; big thanks to everyone here!!!!
I'm replacing my 2 separate right and left panier brackets with the single bracket model which includes a rear rack, and wanted to know whether I should persevere looking for a way to wiggle it on without removing the rear indicators or back lights....
Any tips appreciated
UPDATE: GOT IT ON - HAD TO TAKE REAR LIGHT AND INDICATORS OFF.
Next job is replacement of the front headlight support and indicators bar, so any advice on that would be great
Tom
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ok, here's where I got to...(see photos)
bracket ready to come of apart from working out how to disconnect the connection block inside the front headlamp so that I can pull wires through the hole in the headlamp casing...any help appreciated...do the connectors pull out this block which I will then be able to pull through the hole in the casing?
Thanks
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.do the connectors pull out this block
Don't disconnect anything. Pull the rubber grommet out of the hole and the headlight plug will just have room to slide out. I just did that last week.
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ok, got it done; thanks
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You can take the connector apart
But like wilcom said just leave it together and remove the grommet and the plug will go thru the hole
here is a short video on removing the connectors from the housing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTk-j-5MC2g
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Hello,
Many years ago I lost my key to my panniers - is it possible to get replacement keys or even change the complete barrel?
Also, I just notice that one of my panniers has a crack in it - can anyone recommend the type of glue I should use here?
See photos
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There should be a number inside your latch (visible when the latch is in the open position) that corresponds to the key you'll need. Where to buy - not sure in Europe. They appear in places like ebay here in the US but they can be kind of expensive (to me).
I believe these panniers are made of ABS plastic and there are a variety of ways to repair that material but it will need to be something compatible with that.
I've read about ways to do it with acetone, and also plastic welding. I think with acetone, and a crack that large, you might need a piece of ABS to try and fill it.
If you search online for "ABS repair" you'll find many How-To's and some videos on the various methods.
Also - in the US, the plumbing supply section at the hardware store will usually have ABS adhesive, solvents, etc., for that type of plastic pipe.
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I don't know about the product but here is a very detailed write-up on a similar repair. I love how he used the milk container to match the texture.
https://brook.reams.me/bmw-motorcycle-rebuilds/1983-bmw-r100rs-rebuild-project-index/46-bmw-r100rs-repair-panniers-plastic/
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Anyone ever try plastic welding ???
https://www.harborfreight.com/plastic-welding-kit-with-air-motor-and-temperature-adjustment-96712.html
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ok, thanks - I'll let you know how I get on
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BobRoller - I have not tried plastic welding but have been wondering how well it works. I've seen a lot of talk about it online and some positive reviews, but don't know anyone personally to ask.
Ditto with the one from Harbor Freight.
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https://www.bmwr65.org/YaBB2.612/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1572022115/0#0
Plastic welding takes some setting up if you don't want a disaster. Polypropylene does not accept glues. Solvent welding is safer, but something fairly ferocious is needed.
It can be done, careful prep, the right temperature and lots of heat shields will do it. Bit of an art that I have in absolutely no way mastered!
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It occurs to me that stitching in red hot joiner pieces from the back might be the way forward. Tape the thing tightly on the outside so there is no split and then press/melt staples on the inside.
Any kind of general heat ruins the front surface. The moulding wants to return to it's normal shape - not pannier shaped!
Solvent welding from the back is easy on other plastics (i.e. using acetone) but PP needs really aggressive solvent.
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@TomHoldom, I did the same repairs and documented it here: https://www.bmwr65.org/YaBB2.612/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1496624958/1#1
Hope it's helpful.