The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: jp9094 on August 07, 2020, 12:37:33 PM
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Hi All,
Just changed the fluids on my '83 r 65 LS and found the drain plug for the drive shaft stripped. I am aware I can use a helicoil etc or even an oversize plug (after tapping the old hole).
However, I want something to temporize it while I decide what to do. Any ideas?
TIA
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Might try some teflon tape and wrap a bunch on the plug trying to feed enough in the threads to get a bite........?
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Try to seal it with something like Hylomar.
After tightening it as far as possible, use a jubilee clip (a hose grip) around the whole assembly to push it in and keep it in place.
I ran mine like this for a few years before I got around to fixing it when I did a rebuild.
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Many thanks for the replies! I was wondering if a larger size bolt (The original is an M12 X 1.5) ie a M13 X 1.5 or even an M12 X 1.75 would also work? What do you guys think?
TIA
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If your going to fix it later you might try the same M12 but a different thread 1.0 or 1.25 the interference might just tighten it up
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Many thanks for the replies! I was wondering if a larger size bolt (The original is an M12 X 1.5) ie a M13 X 1.5 or even an M12 X 1.75 would also work? What do you guys think?
TIA
If a 12mm thread has stripped out, you are not putting another 12mm bolt in there regardless of thread pitch.
I think 13mm is OK, but you will need to drill and then tap the hole anyway.
A Helicoil is a good repair, a Timesert is even better. Removing the final drive is not a big chore. You really should take the FD apart to ensure removal of all swarf etc. but liberal flushing with kerosene or BrakeKleen or similar after will probably remove the swarf (if a late model removing the vent will assist in the process, otherwise use the filler).
If you want to think about thinks for a while, spray the existing drain plug with CRC/WD-40 or similar and then liberally coat with Devcom expoxy before re-inserting the plug. Another alternaitve is to visit somewhere like Jenkins Rubber and purchase an emergency push-in rubber bung, being in mind that if other bodge fails you are buying a new final drive.
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Hey jp, I found my shaft drive drain thread had been stripped when I first did all the oils in my ownership seven years ago and still haven't done a permanent fix. Initially I was kind of amazed it hadn't loosened itself and fallen out beforehand. Back then I re-tapped the drain plug internal thread with the bike on the centre stand, pretty inaccurate but it sharpened up just enough to have the plug thread up (reusing the two existing washers that were on the plug ).
Obviously that wasn't going to last and I persevered with a weeping plug for the last three or four oil changes before it got too bad to be a concern. I tried plumbing thread tape but that was no good, now I have it sealed with Loctite thread sealant, meant for steam pipes, did that less than a year ago so haven't had the need to change the oil yet and can't tell you if the plug's reusable but I presume it should be able to be taken out, plug threads cleaned up and re-applied again. I'll repost with a result in a month or three. It has however definitely stopped the oil weep!
Reading Tony's post I wish I'd had the nerve to helicoil it when I had the final drive unit off the bike to replace the swing arm/ final drive gasket which was weeping also, I didn't because I was afraid the swarf would get in the final drive... I should've asked the question at the time as it sounds like you can flush out the swarf relatively easily.
A helicoil isn't too hard to do.
I'll post the Loctite thread sealant number when I get to my garage next, in a day or two.
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The thread sealant I used to solve the weeping plug is Loctite 5770. Reading from the Loctite website it says it is:
'Designed for locking and sealing metal threaded pipes and fittings in industrial applications
Prevents loosening and leakage from shock and vibration
Particularly suitable for sealing steel metal joints where high temperature and high pressure resistance is required'
It may not be a good choice. I had a tube given to me by my father who's pretty good with mechanical things and I didn't read up on it before I used it, perhaps it'll be perfect or perhaps I'll curse it. I'll definitely post further down the track but that doesn't help you right now.
One thing I thought of after trying teflon thread tape is that old style plumbing hemp rope with plumbing grease, used for everyday plumbing with galvainised steel water mains pipes, might be worth a go, since it's much more suited to metal/metal surfaces and filling voids rather than teflon tape.
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Hi All,
Many thanks for the advice. I have found on Amazon a: "Supercrazy M13 X 1.5MM Oil Pan Drain Plug Thread Repair Tool Kit SF0087B". This consists of a 13 mm tap and 6 13 mm x 1.5 plugs. For US 4 14.99 and free shipping I thought I might give it a go. It arrives tomorrow! Wish me luck.
TIA
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That's US $ 14.99 !
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Just make sure to take the washer for your larger plug and verify it fits the machined surface that it seals against before you enlarge the hole!
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That's US $ 14.99 !
I did not know they made such a thing
I think it will work good
I would definitely remove the final drive
You will see there is not much room below the hole for the tap to run thru
So you may have to tap as far as you can and then cut the tap off a little and cut a little deeper
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Fail ! I found it impossible to tap the damaged thread given I had to do it on my back in a poorly lit garage. I have (in the distant past) used a tap and die set before. I could not get enough of a mechanical advantage to start the tap. I would have to remove the drive shaft and put it in a vise to do it.
I have temporized it with a rubber bung and a hose clamp as was suggested, and it seems to be working fine so far. Many thanks for the suggestions and encouragements!
FWIW,
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Fail ! I found it impossible to tap the damaged thread given I had to do it on my back in a poorly lit garage. I have (in the distant past) used a tap and die set before. I could not get enough of a mechanical advantage to start the tap. I would have to remove the drive shaft and put it in a vise to do it.
I have temporized it with a rubber bung and a hose clamp as was suggested, and it seems to be working fine so far. Many thanks for the suggestions and encouragements!
FWIW,
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Sorry to hear jp - yep it's pretty hard to get accurate in that position. Since you'll probably take the final drive off to fix the problem permanently I'd use a 12mm helicoil rather than tapping a new 13mm hole, will be far easier I think.
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I would have to remove the drive shaft and put it in a vise to do it
FWIW,
Maybe you got your words mixed up but you do not need to remove the drive shaft or drive shaft housing
You only need to remove the final drive
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Hello,
Either won't work. The inside of the final drive is full witht the axe and pinions. So you won't be able to either drill or tap properly the aluminum casing.
You need to remove the drive and dismantle it to have proper access to drill and put an Helicoil or TimeSert.
Do not ask how I know this ...
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Whatever you do, don't use J-B Weld. My Saab 9-3 came with a glued sump plug. The stuff is permanent, even on oily alloy.
We had to weld a bit of steel to the plug (it got hot) drag it out and then weld up the cracked alloy sump. This was done in place and amazingly never leaked in 150,000 miles and 15 oil changes.
I'm currently driving the last of the 9-5s and dreading changing to some SUV identi-box :-[
How many Airheads do I see on UK roads? Not many. 9-5s? None. 9-3s? at the weekend very occasionally. Identical SUVs with brain dead motorcycle-unaware drivers (like dead people) "all the time" ;D
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Whatever you do, don't use J-B Weld. My Saab 9-3 came with a glued sump plug. The stuff is permanent, even on oily alloy. ;D
Thats a Good thing If you don't want to take it apart ;D
The stuff is awesome
It is holding this oil filler cap assembly on my R1150R
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Just posting back on this old topic about the Loctite 5770 thread sealant I used to fix my weepy swing arm plug- after 1.5 years I've changed the swing arm oil successfully and reused the thread sealant again on the plug. Recommend.
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Might just add what this newbie did when he found his bike had a lot of damaged threads. I took the final drive off and decided as has been said here, that it was indeed extremely difficult to get a perfect thread repair done without dismantling the drive. I was definitely not doing that but did get a helicoil insert in there ok by grinding the end of the final tap flush so that it got maximum cutting depth.
The new thread insert is in there but there isn't a lot of thread in it. At the time I was doing a lot of drive oil level checks to find where oil was being lost (the gearbox) and it was being drained fairly often. So rather than risk any other problems I made another drain bolt which I cut a 6mm threaded hole in. So when I drain the oil now it's done with a smaller screw that is never going to get stripped and is still big enough to drain warm oil. The 12mm plug has thread sealant and it isn't going to leak. It was intended to be temporary but is still there.
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Everyone should own a 3/8" socket set and keep the 1/2" or larger well away from bikes. And cars unless its head bolts or suspension! :smash:
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Very good advice regarding 3/8" drive. I won't use 1/2" drive unless it is bigger than about 25mm/1" with the only exception being the 4 rear wheel bolts on my K75 'cause my breaker bar is longer and easier to use in a one man job.
I also use 1/4" drive for most things under 13mm or 1/2". Generally I carry a set of those on my motos along with a set of allen key sockets. Small is good as they are easier to carry.
One of the best tools for my R65 is a Stahlwille 19/22mm ring spanner. Far better than the open ended jobbie that comes with the tool kit. It means you can use your boot on it to break the torque if away from home without the spanner falling off.