The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: JAMADOR on May 07, 2019, 11:27:26 AM
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Hello all, just joined on here & have been reading for a couple days.
Thinking about buying a project. 1980 R65 that has been garage stored & unused for ~30yrs. Would be my first (owned) bike.
Bike was ridden from CO to FL & was in good running condition when parked.
Has literally sat in the garage since.
I'm in TX, and haven't seen the bike, nor do I have much more information (yet) about it. Need to get the mileage, VIN, etc before moving forward, but the seller is someone I've known for years & was in occasional talks with about buying his K75S, but never had timing & finances line up.
Thinking the R would be a easier 'investment' and a chance to get intimately familiar with it, with going through a minor restoration.
What would you guys put the value of a non-running project R65 that's in decent cosmetic condition, but likely in need of some potentially major mechanical refresh?
Any advice before jumping off the deep end & looking at getting it transported to TX?
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Also, I assume pretty much all rubber components will need replacing, along with all fluids flushed/replaced, and carbs cleaned/rebuilt. At minimum.
Seller said he believes the engine is 'locked up' from sitting. Chances of damage? Or just needs some TLC to get it freed up?
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I personally would not pick up a project for a 1st bike.
My r65 is #2 bike in the garage right now. I have the ability to take my time on repairing it, and am still able to ride the other bike. There is no pressure to get it up and running so I can take a ride.
I would recommend you pick up a used running bike first. That way you can make sure you like motorcycling. If you dont, you can sell that bike for a little loss. Most of the time you will not get your time/money back out of a project.
Did the PO empty the gas tank, or does it have 30 year old gas sitting in it.
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I've got an Indian Scout in the garage for the summer, so I've been taking it for short rides & getting myself re-acclimated with riding.
Unsure on the details on the R, past the fact that it's been unused for over 2 decades & stored in a (assuming) residential garage in the outer NW Orlando area.
I've also got some good technical help, as my dad was in the car business for 30 years & is really handy with mechanical work.
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Would need carbs to be rebuilt
Possible gas-tank re-line
Probable brake caliper and MC replacement/rebuild
new tires and tubes
New battery
New fluids and oil filter
Pretty much everything rubber is at least suspect
If trans has sat with water in oil for a long time a transmission rebuild is likely in it's near future
Transmission spline lube
Rear spline clean and lube
To me it would only be worth a few hundred bucks as from personal experience I know how much things add up once started.
But, if you can get it dirt cheap then it would be a fun project as Airheads are pretty easy to work on, for the most part.
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Most of that was what I expected for the restore to road-readiness.
Seller had gotten me a quote to ship his K75S to Houston, assuming the R would be a similar rate, it was something in the $600 range (NW Orlando to N Houston).
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How much mechanical experience do you have on vehicles ??
That possibility of a seized engine would concern me, sitting in central Florida for 30 years, corrosion my be a big issue .
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If it is going to cost you $600 just to get the project home you need the bike as a gift. Having sat that long there is hundreds or hours of work and a couple of thousand dollars in bibs and bobs to put it back on the road. I would happily pay money for a derelict "iconic" model, say an original "basic" G/S or an R90S, early model R100RS, "Bumblebee GS" etc. But there is nothing special about a 1980 R65 and much as I love the BMW brand, $AU500 (which is a lot less than $US500) is about the max I'd pay for a non-iconic bike that has not run in 30 years and is a model known to have more than a few problems when new.
That said, on the positive side parts availability is good, collective technical knowledge here annd in various forums is excellent. It comes down to your mechabnical ability and how much over the odds you are prepared to pay - given that the $600 transport cost is in my view already more than the bike is worth, which way you jump depends on your appetite for it.
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Listen to Tony Smith; he is one of our best gurus.
I believe that the 1980 models are iron (rather than the much more desirable "Nickasil" barrel engines) and thus it is much more likely that you will need to replace rings and bore the iron barrels. I also believe that the bike can be saved, but there is a point of diminishing return. You might be better off looking for an '81 or later in your area.
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On top of what they have said the heads may need the Exhaust seats and valves replaced
It all ads up fast
If I had it all to do over I would have got a post 1985 R80 or larger
The R65 is a great twisty road bike but does have the annoying vibration at about 65 to 70mph range so it makes it a bit of a hassle to run the Interstates on
I would not pay more than 500 Bucks all in
That being said you could also buy a running R65 that needs a lot of work to
Don't buy this thing thinking it will be cheap because it WONT :o
If you want cheap buy a Honda
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Listen to Tony Smith; he is one of our best gurus.
I would prefer not to have the term "guru" used - i am not in the same league as people like Snowbum, Mark Morrisey, Ray Peake etc. i will admit to having opinions and not being afraid to share them :-)
I believe that the 1980 models are iron (rather than the much more desirable "Nickasil" barrel engines) and thus it is much more likely that you will need to replace rings and bore the iron barrels. I also believe that the bike can be saved, but there is a point of diminishing return. You might be better off looking for an '81 or later in your area.
There is nothing wrong with "iron bore' cylinders, I was using a set in my 84 R65 when it was still an R65. If I were to persist with a set of iron cyclinder i would use them until they needed a rebore and then have them bored and nikasil coated - this is now marginally cheaper than buying new nikasil barrels.
My concerns with the 1980 model are - they have suspect valve seats and also the smaller valves. It is probabyl cheaper to buy a 2nd jhand set of later heads and refurbish them. BMW do not make "lead free" seats for the small valve heads, they can be obtained elsewhere, but as someone else commented - the cost ramps up.
The 1980 model has the heavy flywheel and the longer input shaft, the jury is still out whether the skeleton clutch carrier is a real improvement or not, but parts specific to the 79/80 model R65 are going to get harder to find sooner (for instance try and find a 79/80 side stand bush - they have the same part number as the later models, but the later part doesn't fit). The 1980 will have the round master cylinder, which in the absence of a source of new tanks is just junk, also it may (probabyl will) have an ATE caliper - againt he cost of refurbing this is about the cost of buying a brembo, so its junk.
To be honest, I'd take it on as a project, but I would not pay more than $500 for it. By way of comparison I have just bought a K100RS with a failed alternator for $400 and ridden it home. It has given the previous owner a few problems recently and the charge light coming on was the last straw. Old bikes can be very frustrating. you need a modern one to take your aggression out on.
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Thanks for the insight guys. Definitely giving me a little pause in making such an initial investment into a bike that may need extensive refreshing.
Maybe if I had a way to get it here without the associated shipping costs it would be more feasible...
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A member here has an '83 LS for sale, in Phoenix, fly and drive it home .
Before it gets hot !! ( OK, hotter ) ;D
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I have been thinking about sell the 1988 R65 that I bought from a friend that road raced it for one season. It’s got some road rash from that and when the wife road off into the ditch. It’s been about 4 years since I had it out. If you interested I am only 350 miles away.
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Well, I've got one available. Head on over to the Trading Post section. For what you would spend on resurrecting a long stored example I've got a runner. Needs tires but you could then enjoy it right off the bat while you polish it up to your liking. I can work with the transport of your choice. Have a look.
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Resurrecting this thread.
The idea got shelved, as I'd picked up a replica Lotus 7 project.
Now, the Lotus is likely on its way to a new owner, pending funds & transport. We're moving into a new house next week that has no garage, but does have a small workshop, so a smaller project is more feasible.
Reconsidering this R65, which I believe is still available & would take the project place of the Lotus.
Still have the Indian, parked at my father-in-law's (his 2nd bike) so would still have a functional ride for the 2-wheel itch.
Know someone that owns a hotshot company, need to see if I can snag a backhaul, if he has someone going Orlando>Houston, which would just leave me the acquisition price on the bike.
Assuming it's a full restoration, how is parts availability these days for these bikes, and are things like the Nikasil cylinders compatible with a non-Nikasil block?
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Can I ask why the bike has remained un-sold?
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It's not really advertised. Just sitting in his garage.
More like a barn find, than an active sale.
We've occasionally kept in touch & are both active on another forum.
I think it was something like 2 years from his first offer of the K75S to him actually selling it, as he wasn't actively looking to sell it.
I haven't actually reached out to him yet to inquire if it's still available. So, it could be a non-starter if he's since sold it.
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Iron bore cylinders will fit the later engine, I did that myself when I first put my 1984 model back together.
As at earlier this year R65 piston rings for iron horse are NLA, however this isn't a problem as R65 bores are nominally the same size as R75 bores. I say nominally because the O/S increments are different. That is to say STD are the same, but 1st O/S R75 is bigger than 1st O/S R65. This is of no real moment as careful work with a file will set your end caps correctly.
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I was thinking the opposite, in the even the original cylinders are no-go, can later cylinders/pistons be used on the older block?
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Hello,
BMW only supply (if I'm not mistaken) Nikasyl bores so they have to fit earlier bikes which were fitted with iron bore ones.
AFAIK, the cylinder dimensions (external) are identical for all R65 and the internal bore diameter also are identical between iron and Nikasil covered aluminum bore.
The only thing you must check is that the rings have to match the finish of the bore. Do NOT use iron matched rings on a Nikasil bore and vice versa.
If I had to renew jugs and/or pistons, I'll buy Nikasil covered jugs and fitting pistons because they last forever.
Just my 2¢
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Thanks, good to know they're compatible.
Still waiting on my Lotus to sell, buyer is working out transport from Houston to Minnesota. Hoping it sells before we move next week, so I don't have to figure out a storage solution for it in the interim.
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I bought a project as my first airhead. 84 R65. I found it a satisfying experience to be honest. Plan on many unforeseen issues as you start into it. Rusty tank fro be sure. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't spend any more than $500-$1000 on a project. I have >$2000 in parts and materials alone into mine.
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My hope, is that I can get it for a good deal.
Transport might cost more than acquisition :Oscar:
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What with a couple of wheel bearings, brake seals, gaskets, gearbox seals, brake shoes, oils and other rubber parts, crossover pipe: I'm probably £1,000 in. Mine was an untouched runner in very good condition. Epoxy ready for the tank this winter, another £30. Lead replacement another cost but trivial and possibly not required.
IF you tinker, then costs multiply! Taking the barrels off found the dodgy cross pipe. Bought stainless replacement. Bought SH stainless pipes to go with it. 860 kit, SH 33:11 Final drive, altered seat for comfort. LED bulbs. Hektik ignition. DIY FET regulator. Oh dear.
If this one is ropey, then prepare to spend and don't tinker, or tinker and simply spend some more :deal2:
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It's a full teardown if I get the one I've been thinking of. Sitting for years, possibly needs some engine parts replaced.
Got the Lotus sold & shipped, closed on the new house & got the last load moved last night.
Just need to get settled & mostly unpacked, then can start giving this some serious thought.
Will likely come down to what the total cost (purchase+transport) comes out to be, considering it's going to need some $$ put into it.
Upside, it's a 'real' vehicle, unlike the Lotus which was a scratch-built replica. No custom fab work & self-design needed.
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If you are going to buy new cylinders, spend the extra and buy the Siebenrock 860cc kit, you will be so glad you did.
My earlier comments on the project notwithstanding you will find an airhead a worthy project. One thing you should do is price up all the parts you think you will need and put that number in a sealed envelope.
When you finish the project open the envelope.
If your actual spend works out at less than double your estimate you have done very well.
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Looks like roughly $1k usd? Prices are in euro.
More power/torque out of the same pkg seems like a win. Considering this particular 65 has a likely stuck .otor on non-Nikasil jugs, this seems a good buy.