The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: badgertom on May 22, 2018, 02:35:11 PM
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I usually run my 1982 R65 with ethanol free gasoline. Now
I'm thinking of switching to the 10% ethanol gasoline since it's a little cheaper. Will this change have a negative impact on the engine?
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Ethanol has a lower calorific value than straight gasoline so it has the effect of weakening the mixture a little. With less energy content you will also get less MPG. In theory that should only be 3 % but independent tests have found anything up to 10%.
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Ethanol does not play nicely with brass carb parts. Whilst it is true that the Bing has a reduced count of brass parts there is still a case to avoid it if possible. Ethanol will breakdown and invade the original floats if they are still fitted, there are ethanol "resistant" floats available, but note the use of the word "resistant" which is not semantically equal to "proof".
I don't know what the situation in your jurisdiction is but in Australia the difference in price between fuel with and fuel without alcohol is way insufficient for me to be bothered trying to run it long term. That said if I arrive at a service station and all they have is hugely expensive 95 or 98 Octane (RON) "Premium Unleadedl" or the much cheaper 91 Octane "E10" (10% by mass ethanol, not the 10% by volume you might expect) then the old BMW gets enough E10 top get me where I am going.
On the other hand, our more modern cars get dosed with E10 at every opportunity, but I am not a fan of E10 in carb engines.
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I been using fuel with ethanol in my '81 R65 pretty much since 1983, other than a reduction in fuel mileage, in my case, about 10%, with 10% alcohol in the fuel supply locally since 1997.
I have not seen any degradation in the brass carb parts or floats .
The only OEM floats from Bing that are ' alcohol ' resistant, are the independent floats, with the price of the kit, I would not recommend it .
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I do not have a choice
In and around the city it is E 10%
Out in the country I see ethanol free fuel a lot
I cant say I notice any difference in performance
If i had a choice I would Not use it
I do run the highest octane they have
My floats are 3 1/2 years old and are getting heavier
I will more than likely replace them the next time the carburetors come apart for a service
I also have not seen any issues with the brass parts
The Bing E resistance floats are rumored to have issues with sticking They are pricey so I think that scares most people away from trying them
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Hello
European fuels and French one (where I live) all contains Ethanol.
The "regular" "may have up to 5% Ethanol in them" and the E10 have 10%. So I run my bike with ethanol fuel since a very long time with no adverse effect (so far) on the brass and on the floats.
But with E10 the bike does not run as fast and as smooth as she does with ethanol free gas.
So I adjusted the main jet and needle jet to restore the previous behavior .... The lower MPG I get with Ethanol fuel eats the price difference and some... So i returned to my "standard" jetting and run on ethanol free gas. But YMMV and you gas is certainly different than mine. But I'm ready for when 10% ethanol will be the base and 15% ethanol the "new" gas ...
Also bear in mind that even if these fuels have stabilization products added, ethanol absorb water in the air. So DO NOT store your bike with a partially filled tank containing ethanol if you do not want the tank to rust... And I wonder if it is better to store the bike with an empty tank sprayed with oil inside or with a brim full tank of any gas you can find ....
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Hello
And I wonder if it is better to store the bike with an empty tank sprayed with oil inside or with a brim full tank of any gas you can find ....
Redcote tank liner is the answer. It is a very similar product to that originally used by BMW and is even a similar shade of red. I twigged that they were a similar product when I found that Acetone removed the last of the OEM liner in the twinkling of an eye - Acetone is the solvent you use to thin Redcote prior to application and is what you also use to removed a failed Redcote liner.
I tried Redcote on my old generator's fuel tank - the tank was in dire condition as iut had not been used for years as it is much easier to use a "jerry' can with a modified lid to supply fuel for it. Anyway the old tank was well rusted, I cleaned it with acid (and had to stop half way through the process as the amount of acid leaking out the holes and onto my skin was causing me harm.
I temp sealed the pinholes with masking tape and soldered up a couple of holes that were nearly big enough to push a Bic Biro through and applied Redcote as per the instructions. - Result, a sealed tank that is still internal rust free and sealing several years later.
Best thing about Redcote is tha you don't throw the unused part away you simply store it and add a bit of Acetone to thin it the next time you need to put a liner in a tank
Sorry, this got a bit long and is starting to sound like an advertorial.
http://damonq.com/red-kote.html
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As I do not have a choice, I use ethanol laced gasoline here in New York. As this is only my third year with my r 65 LS I do not have a long enough baseline to measure against.
On a similar note, what do the "brains trust" think about using a Lead Substitute in our tanks? I know they are available, but am not sure if it would make a difference.
What thinks you??
FWIW
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Don't waste your money !!!! :D
The valves and seats are made for unleaded fuel .
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Hello
And I wonder if it is better to store the bike with an empty tank sprayed with oil inside or with a brim full tank of any gas you can find ....
Redcote tank liner is the answer. It is a very similar product to that originally used by BMW and is even a similar shade of red. I twigged that they were a similar product when I found that Acetone removed the last of the OEM liner in the twinkling of an eye - Acetone is the solvent you use to thin Redcote prior to application and is what you also use to removed a failed Redcote liner.
I tried Redcote on my old generator's fuel tank - the tank was in dire condition as iut had not been used for years as it is much easier to use a "jerry' can with a modified lid to supply fuel for it. Anyway the old tank was well rusted, I cleaned it with acid (and had to stop half way through the process as the amount of acid leaking out the holes and onto my skin was causing me harm.
I temp sealed the pinholes with masking tape and soldered up a couple of holes that were nearly big enough to push a Bic Biro through and applied Redcote as per the instructions. - Result, a sealed tank that is still internal rust free and sealing several years later.
Best thing about Redcote is tha you don't throw the unused part away you simply store it and add a bit of Acetone to thin it the next time you need to put a liner in a tank
Sorry, this got a bit long and is starting to sound like an advertorial.
http://damonq.com/red-kote.html
Barry
How much is needed to coat one tank
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The question about lead substitute comes often in France on the various BMW bike forum I follow.
The consensus is that if you have an 1981~1982 bike it will probably be good to use a GOOD lead substitute because these years manufacture are said to suffer valve recession. (mine is in the period and does not...)
Otherwise, the valves seats are so impregnated with lead from the period they saw leaded gas that it will last for the bike duration...
i started recently to add lead substitute because I found a 1/2 liter NOS can from the time I had a car desperately needing it.
So make up your mind ... :)
And make a habit to measure valve lash BEFORE setting it to see if it is closing or what.
In the mean term, I will reconstruct my engine because one jug has it's Nickasil coating peeling out. On the list of things to do are the replacement of the exhaust valve seats to put "unleaded" ones. I then could see if the many miles i put on the bike without substitute has been prejudicial. But I'm not at all worried.
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On a similar note, what do the "brains trust" think about using a Lead Substitute in our tanks? I know they are available, but am not sure if it would make a difference.
What thinks you??
Brain says it is a waste of money.
Heart says "chicken soup", it may not do any good but it is unlikely to do any harm and makes you feel better about things.
I use it as I have no idea of the provenance of the valve seats in my heads - the valves are stainless steel "intervalve" brand, so I'm having a bet each way.
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http://damonq.com/red-kote.html
Barry
How much is needed to coat one tank
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I think that question was really for me. I "pack" of Red Kote powder will easily do several BMW tanks with some left over - the good news is that you put the leftover in a sealed tin or jar and it keeps - all you need do is thin it a little with Acetone and you can use it again.
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My 79 has the early cast iron valve which are supposed to be not as bad as the BMW's first attempt at unleaded seats. i haven't seen any evidence of valve recession over the last 11 years so I don't bother with a lead substitute. I rarely use sustained high revs which is a factor in deciding to use an additive or not.
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My valve seats were fine for 75000 miles and then they started wearing rapidly
Then I had the heads rebuilt by Ted Porter
The cost was over $1000 USD :o
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The exhaust valves were pretty thin on my '81 R100 when I had the heads redone. Had around 90k miles on it...