The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Soeren on April 28, 2016, 10:58:07 AM
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I'm having some trouble wiring my ignition switch.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41474748/BMW%20coil%20wires/bmw%20r65%20ignition%20sw/r65-ignition-switch-wiring.png)
If I got it right it would be like follows:
1 = 58 = grey wire
2 = 30? = red wire
3 = 30? = red wire
4 = 56 = green/grey wire AND yellow wire
5 = 15 = solid green wire
What gets me confused is.
1. which one of the two "center" pins are pin 30?
2. why do both the green/grey wire and the yellow wire go to pin 56 according to my wiring diagram?
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1. Both of them in order to accommodate 2 red wires.
2. 56 is position 4 on a Euro ignition switch which is headlight on and position 2 for US bikes ignition/headlight on. My Euro wiring diagram only shows one yellow/white wire on 56 and that is the feed to the headlight. There are no green/grey wires anywhere on the diagram.
I have another diagram showing the ignition switch operation which does have 2 wires on 56 but the 2nd one appears to be green/violet and is marked US only. It goes to terminal 30 on the lighting relay which Euro bikes don't have.
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I've a USA/North American 1982 R65 so my color codes/pins will likely be different from yours, but will post some pics here anyway in case it helps someone..
As you probably know - the USA bikes are wired so that the headlight cannot be turned off with the switch on. Also, the extra green wire w/black chaser stripe in the pictures is a North American wiring harness "spare" connector to be hooked up to an optional clock or voltmeter...
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi159.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft138%2Fnhmaf%2FBMW_IgnitionSwitchWires02.jpg&hash=fe710abd18559d3d475653d9bc319a5d306be223) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/nhmaf/media/BMW_IgnitionSwitchWires02.jpg.html)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi159.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft138%2Fnhmaf%2FBMW_IgnitionSwitchWires03.jpg&hash=81040ef987b9788dd94f94886786fb7a6b1182ff) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/nhmaf/media/BMW_IgnitionSwitchWires03.jpg.html)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi159.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft138%2Fnhmaf%2FBMW_IgnitionSwitchWires01.jpg&hash=a11f2aae07eaa2c07bf9b3b5ee6b1fe54b8ae6d0) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/nhmaf/media/BMW_IgnitionSwitchWires01.jpg.html)
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Hello !
Here are the BMW original wiring diagrams from the factory repair manual. Enjoy.
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the USA bikes are wired so that the headlight cannot be turned off with the switch on.
A quick and easy mod, when you're replacing your left hand switch assembly, is to shell out a few extra greenbacks for the euro version of the switch assembly. There's an extra switch for turning the headlight and running lights on and off.
At least for the monoshock version.
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I was wondering about the Euro vs. NA version. Is it just a matter of getting the Euro switch? Or is there anything with the wiring that is different or needs to be changed?
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The easiest way (on USA Spec Bikes) to get ignition on with out headlights is to switch the GREEN and GREY wires.
You loose the parking light function but the 2nd position is IGN ON and the 3rd position is IGN plus Headlights.
That Is basically what I did plus I have relays in the circuit to remove the load from the NLA IGN switch
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Australian model has the following with numbers as per your diagram:
1 = Grey
2 = Red
3 = Green with stripe
4 = Yellow
5 = Green
Hope that helps
Cheers
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P.S. from last post. I have my bike completely disassembled at the moment and re-read my notes and diagram. I t appears that 3 may not have been connected when I disassembled. Not sure why but would agree with photos on previous posts.
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Or is there anything with the wiring that is different or needs to be changed?
The switch just connects different wires, so it's all in the switch, at least for my '86 mono shock.
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Hmm, I have an earlier model twin shock. I'll have to look into Mrclubike's thing about switching the wires. That almost sounds too easy. Not that I don't believe it, just that I never have anything work out that easily for me. It'd be nice to have the on/off choice while I iron out my charging things.
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Hmm, I have an earlier model twin shock. I'll have to look into Mrclubike's thing about switching the wires. That almost sounds too easy. Not that I don't believe it, just that I never have anything work out that easily for me. It'd be nice to have the on/off choice while I iron out my charging things.
It should work on a 1983
That is basically how the Euro spec R65 does it.
They do not go thru a relay to turn the head lights off when cranking and they have a extra positions on the switch to keep the "parking light only" function.
I have a pair of Rigid brand LED's I run in the daytime instead of the main headlight.
The pair of LED's pull less current than the head light does.
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Need some help figuring this stuff out, if you all don't mind. I've got a 1980 R65. Last fall started having trouble with the ignition switch - Wouldn't stay in the "On" position, when I put it in the "On" position it acts like it's in "P" - power to post 58 only. Would only stay in On if I twisted really hard and held it there, making it impossible to drive.
Bought a new switch on eBay. New switch (like the old) has 3 positions. In 0, nothing is powered. In position 1, I get power on post 58 (tail light and instruments) only. In position 2 I get power to posts 15 (main power) and 56 (headlight), but not 58. This means the tail light and tach/speedo backlighting shuts off in what is the Run position. Needless to say, I can't get CHP to sign off on a bike that doesn't have a working tail light when running!
My Clymer manual actually suggests this is the correct behavior - the grey wire (which feeds the tailight and instrument cluster) is only energized in "P". Haynes manual, OTOH, shows there are a UK and US version of the switch and the US version is 3-position with only post 58 in position 1 all three outputs powered in 2. I'm hoping the Haynes manual is right b/c if the Clymer manual is right then I can't ever get the bike past CHP.
Thoughts? Try to repair the old switch by ripping it open and seeing why it doesn't work? Jury-rig the new switch to keep post 58 energized in position 2? Find another switch?
I've checked all the other continuity on the bike, it all seems fine. I also checked the headlight relay (something I read suggested it could possibly be involved) and it seems fine - swapped it with the other identical relay to no avail. So maybe they're both bad (the other is the buzzer relay and my buzzer has never worked). But starting to doubt that path.
Running out of ideas here so hoping the crowd has a suggestion.
Thanks,
Mike
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I don't have my Ignition switch out but If i remember correctly there is a extra terminal on the US spec switch that may be unused and I am not sure what it does.
You may have plugged into it by mistake
If you can get your new switch out and put an ohm meter on it and just figure out what each terminal does and in what position and wire it up that way.
If you have to you could just connect the head light and tail light wires together on the #56 terminal
This should not overload the switch because the head light is powered thru a relay and not the switch
That shouldn't be an issue unless CHP needs a park light in your safety inception
This is the reason I have installed all these silly relays in my system
These 30 plus year old switches are getting week and are NLA
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These little relays are very good for hiding in the dash to take the load off of your ignition switch
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I like MrClubike's suggestion on bridging both the headlights and tail light on post 56. I sort of was thinking of trying that but was hoping someone would say, "yeah, that might work and probably won't fry your tail light" before I went out on my own.
The new ignition switch is working per the drawing in the Clymer manual, whether it's actually supposed to work that way is unclear. I may rip open the old switch (carefully) and see if I can figure out why it's not working, I don't remember having this problem before it failed, and you'd have thought I'd notice if the speedo and tach backlighting weren't working when I drove after dark!
Thanks for the support!
Mike
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The ignition switch is actually composed of two separate components: 1) A keyed lock and, 2) The switch assembly itself. Should you decide to disassemble the unit, you may discover the contacts within the switch have worn to the point where contact has degraded and it the cause of your problems.
This is exactly what happened with the ignition switch in my 1986 VW Cabriolet. Once the nylon and metal switch was replaced, all things electrical were back on-line.
Sidebar Note: Heavy key fobs with multiple keys dangling from a switch will wear out the switch itself. Weight, gravity and constant movement eventually becomes problematic.
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The ignition switch is actually composed of two separate components: 1) A keyed lock and, 2) The switch assembly itself.
Sidebar Note: Heavy key fobs with multiple keys dangling from a switch will wear out the switch itself. Weight, gravity and constant movement eventually becomes problematic.
I have replaced two ignition switches on the wife's R65/80 in the past 30 odd years, the current one is lasting well because she now has only the folding BMW key and a "Motorworks" key fob hanging on to the switch, I suspect that this one will outlast the previous two.
This is a good thing as the switch is no longer available as a part and I am watching with some wariness the travails of people seeking to replace it with an aftermarket device.
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The ignition switch is actually composed of two separate components: 1) A keyed lock and, 2) The switch assembly itself.
Sidebar Note: Heavy key fobs with multiple keys dangling from a switch will wear out the switch itself. Weight, gravity and constant movement eventually becomes problematic.
I have replaced two ignition switches on the wife's R65/80 in the past 30 odd years, the current one is lasting well because she now has only the folding BMW key and a "Motorworks" key fob hanging on to the switch, I suspect that this one will outlast the previous two.
This is a good thing as the switch is no longer available as a part and I am watching with some wariness the travails of people seeking to replace it with an aftermarket device.
When I purchased my 1981 R65 in the way back days, I stopped in at Lone Star BMW in Austin, Texas, and asked for a spare key blank. I gave them my Airhead's key as a guide. There used to be a gent at that dealership that was well versed in Airhead lingo. That's not a BMW key, sez he.
Turns out, my R65 ignition switch was from a riding lawnmower! Sucker was doing a fine job in the OEM location and stayed in place until I got all kinky with the front end mods and deleted the switch AND key in favor of a double-secret hidden switch that gets me going.
No more worries about losing a key! 8-)
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[ deleted the switch AND key in favor of a double-secret hidden switch that gets me going.
No more worries about losing a key! 8-)
On more than one occasion I have been sore tempted to do the same thing. Actually with the R65 it would be easy, I'd use three switches - one for ignition, 1 for headlights and the third for parking/running lights, obviously the last two do not need to be secret.
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Us'n's with 'murican-sold bikes have to have headlights on at all times hence the difference in ignition switches.
Just one HD toggle. Oh, and my tank bag...
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Us'n's with 'murican-sold bikes have to have headlights on at all times hence the difference in ignition switches.
Swapped my switch for a Euro version so long ago that I had to replace the switch again. I'm not saying I like to break the law, but I do like having the option...
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Swapped my switch for a Euro version so long ago that I had to replace the switch again. I'm not saying I like to break the law, but I do like having the option...
I agree! My KLE has "always on" lights and they annoy me, thing is after looking at wiring diagrams for every model I can find it looks like they were all like that. If I keep it, something that is doubtful at present, i will delve into the harness and see what Kawasaki switch blocks are available at my local wrecker and make something up that looks stock but lets me turn the lights off.
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Just following up to say MrClubike's idea worked great. Pigtailed the output of the headlight post to the headlight and parking light wires, works great. Now maybe I'll get a little fancy and wire in a lead from the parking light post to the parking light wire with a diode such that the switch actually does what it's supposed to in the middle position.
And the old switch, yeah, it's hosed. I think the plastic is worn and maybe a little tiny spring has broken so the switch doesn't keep continuity in the Run position. Probably heading the direction of retrofitting a modern switch when the current one fails. Not really that hard, now that I've figured out how it's supposed to work.
:D
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Did you do the relays also? Or just the wires?
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Just to add a few bits to the discussion. My '83 r65 LS had mechanical problems with the ignition switch (when I got it to turn it worked fine). I assume it was an original US switch as the owners manual shows it coming from a dealer in the US. This switch had 3 positions: Instrument lights (with parking and tail light), Ignition without head light and ignition with tail light!. I just replaced it with a used switch from the UK which only has 2 positions: Instrument lights (etc) and ignition with headlight! The previous discussion seems to indicate it should be the other way round. In any event I am happy to have a switch I don't have to "fiddle" with to get to work. Any suggestions on refurbishing the old lock?
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Just got a reply from the seller in the UK who tells me all switches in the UK went to headlight on all the time sometime in the 1980's. FWIW!
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Mike A,
I just noted today that I have the same problem. Recently put in a new (used) ignition switch and the tail light goes out when the headlight is on. If I read what you said correctly you put a connector between # 56 and # 58 on the switch and this fixed the problem. Can't ride at night till I fix the problem. Hope you see this and thanks in advance.
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I have a switch that is still good, but no key for it, how do you break them apart and can you re-key it like most other BMW locks? I have done several saddlebag locks by using a file/dremel to align the pins to fit a new key. but how do you get the ignition open to do that?
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Just an update and an answer to the last question (see above). After riding around awhile with the replacement switch, I took the original lock with some blank keys to my local locksmith. He very easily was able to make me 2 keys for the lock that worked! Took one day and cost $25 ! Now have the original European ignition lock in place and can ride without headlights should I so choose!
FWIW