The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: BPT on October 18, 2016, 12:52:33 PM
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I'm wondering about how everyone does the connections when adding things - charging leads, accessory lights, etc. I know that you have to be careful about the total load so I don't mean that I intend to add all kinds of things drawing power at the same time. I am talking about the actual connections - do most of you connect straight to the battery, use separate block or fuse box, etc.?
I've seen some of the separate fuse block type things but they are usually for the ones not only adding extra connections but also calling for more power - heated clothing and such.
This came about as I am trying to iron out, clean up, simplify my electrical things. I'm thinking it would be better to not have multiple things connected straight to the battery (and it is more of a hassle when I have to remove anything there) but wasn't sure if doing something remotely would be worth the trouble.
Any thoughts, theories, or suggestions or some clever ways everyone else makes these nice and neat?
Semi related - I remember reading that the blue plug under the seat is some sort of an accessory plug but can't remember for what. Is it just for hazard lights or some other lighting use? Can it be put to use for anything else?
Thanks
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The lame answer is it depends. If you want to hook up the leads for a battery tender, go direct to the terminals. I do that on all five of my bikes.
Depending on the number of accessory items, it might be easier, tidy and safer to locate a terminal and run a lead from the battery to the terminal. Adding a blade-type fuse within the accessory wiring harness is always a good idea.
Should you be considering more powerful horns, You'll be happier developing a complete harness that utilizes the BMW's small, 22ga horn button wires to trigger a relay while taking 12v power direct from the battery. Again, fuse that circuit. Why go to all that effort? Those 22ga wires were initially OK to deliver power to those wennie pancake horns but may be damaged if you try to push power through those few, tiny, copper wire stands. My R100S, R65 and Triumph 900 have Freeway Blasters and fully upgraded wiring plus fuses.
There are some nice fuse blocks on the market that may simplify adding several aftermarket 12v accessories. Some have a terminal to take a heavier gauge wire from the battery's positive post.
IIRC, that blue plug has switched 12v. Multimeter will confirm.
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Thanks Montmil, that helps. I currently have battery tender leads and some sidecar lights connected. I need to add another set of lights and also wanted to put a USB adapter for charging a phone/GPS. For low capacity, I didn't think I needed the fancy, fully fused, switchable, etc. boxes I've seen some guys use. But thought that it might make things neater and better if I did what you said and used a separate connection spot for these. I was figuring that it was better to have as few things directly on the battery as possible. And, it's already kind of a pain with those short bolts and tight space in that area anyway.
As far as the horn, I think that I have the original weenie one. I've thought of upgrading but I knew that I needed to be careful with that. Perhaps when that time comes, you can give some specifics on the harness/relay that you set up? I think that Eastern Beaver used to have a nice one but they don't do them anymore and it wasn't exactly cheap. I am good with wiring as far as making connections and what not but electrical is not my forte', and I'd need guidance as to what type of relay, fuse size, etc.
About the blue plug - do you know what it's original purpose was? And when you say switched, you mean connected to a switch already on the bike? I know that I had read somewhere what it was for (I thought on this board?) but can't remember. And I was wondering if anyone had utilized it for anything else? Seems like it sits there unused fro most folks.
Thanks
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The red wire on the unused connector under the tank, usually with a blue cap, is a hot wire powered all the time, unfused .
Around the instruments, there is an unused green wire with black spiral band, it was for a voltmeter, you may be able to use that for your GPS / phone charger .
I purchased a harness from Eastern Beaver about 5 years ago, yeah it was a bit pricey !!!
If you have a Radio Shack store near you, you can get the relay there for about $6 or so .
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Let's see if this pic posts correctly............ Here is the blue plug I was talking about. I guess this is the one you say has the red wire, Bob?
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Yes, that's the one, on my bikes, the connector is black and the cap is blue .
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And I am not sure if I am breaking board etiquette here with too many questions but I was going to ask about voltage meters also, didn't know if I should make a separate post. But since Bob mentioned that connection for one...........
I need one. Is it best to connect straight to the battery? Or to the factory spot mentioned? I saw that Snowbum recommended one for about $50. I see a few on here that have gotten some on eBay for much, much less. How big of a difference is there with quality, accuracy and price with these?
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If you connect it to the battery, it will indicate all the time and wear the battery down when the bike is not running, you need to connect it to a switched power source, unpowered when the key is not in the run position .
You can connect it at the factory connector, just try to keep it off of a heavy power use circuit if you choose to wire it elsewhere, you may get a false low voltage reading when the circuit is used .
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Makes perfect sense Bob, I should have thought of that (not putting it directly to the battery).
When you say to the factory connector, are you referring to the aforementioned green/black spiral wire? Other than convenience of wiring, would there be a reason that connecting somewhere else would be preferential? I am looking to get the best overall read in order to keep up with my weak charging system.
Thanks
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Well, if you wanted to, you could connect the voltmeter to the ignition switch, there should be a terminal that's not used on the switch, you'll probably get the best reading of how the charging system is doing .
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That's what I needed to know Bob, thanks. I need to get underneath that area and see what's going on there. I'll see if I can identify those wires you mentioned and see if I have an empty spot on the switch as well.
Next - to find a meter...........
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The blue connector can be used for what ever you want
The factory had a auxiliary fog light harness that plugged into it
and may be some other stuff
I used it for my AUX Driving lights
It has the following circuits in it
Red = battery positive on all the time
Brown = ground or earth
yellow = low beam
white = high beam
Green and Black = fused battery POS when key on
Max BMW has the blue connector that plugs into it and the pins for the connector but it is pricey
The correct way to use that connection is to use battery positive (RT) Red wire from it (add a Fuse) and turn that off an on with a relay using the key signal (GNSW) Grn Blk wire
My digital volt meter is connected at the factory connection (Grn and Black wire female spade connection under the dash) and is reads .2 volts less than the actual voltage at the battery
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Interesting Mrclu. At first I was just curious since I knew that most people didn't have anything there but that it supposedly had a specific purpose and I couldn't remember what that was. Then I started wondering if, as long as it's there doing nothing, is it possible to use it for something?
When you say the plug is pricey, how bad is it? I found one blue one on MAX for around $5. Is that it or am I looking at the wrong thing? And is it safe to assume that this is a BMW specific one and that there isn't an alternative available somewhere?
As far as your lights - what do you have them connected to? Is this all tied into the stock switches on your bike somehow? And did you use the factory harness you mentioned or rig up something yourself?
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The plug is not bad it is the pins that add up
61 13 1 359 289 CABLE SOCKET ROUND FEMALE - $3.57
I was able to find the pins on Ebay
I think 12.00 for 50 but I was never able to find the connector anywhere else
I made my own harness (Fused and with a relay) plugged into the blue connector but I used the factory switch
The factory switch was very expensive from Max but i got one from MOTO BINS for about 25.00$ I think
I just looked on max and the factory switch is now $100.00 :o
I used a KOSO volt meter
There is a very nice voltmeter combination USB charger port on ebay that mounts on the handle bars
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Thanks for the details! Those pins are ridiculous and if I am looking at the correct switch it's $99?!?!?! I found a generic one a while back that almost fits that spot but not exactly because of the "point" there. I do like the idea of using the correct parts that fit. I'll have to see if I can stomach the price on Motobins. Until then, probably my rigged version.
It looks like the plug is 61 13 1 243 674 - CIRCULAR CONNECTOR - BLUE, is that correct?
How many positions are on that switch? From reading your wiring description above, you have High and Low beam? Is there an Off position as well?
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Like Bob said The Eager Beaver stuff is fantastic
This would be perfect to use
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/Wiring_Kits/wiring_kits.html
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Thanks for the details! Those pins are ridiculous and if I am looking at the correct switch it's $99?!?!?! I found a generic one a while back that almost fits that spot but not exactly because of the "point" there. I do like the idea of using the correct parts that fit. I'll have to see if I can stomach the price on Motobins. Until then, probably my rigged version.
It looks like the plug is 61 13 1 243 674 - CIRCULAR CONNECTOR - BLUE, is that correct?
How many positions are on that switch? From reading your wiring description above, you have High and Low beam? Is there an Off position as well?
No the factory switch is just on and off
It does have a back position that is momentary on but goes to off when the toggle is let go
Yes that is the blue conector
The blue connector has a high and low beam wire it is just a connector not a switch connector you have to build a harness to hook to it going to the various components
You would use the low beam wire to trigger fog lights and the High beam circuit to trigger driving lights
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Here is the switch from MOTO BINS
Not priced to bad if you need some other stuff to cut down on shipping
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Ok, I think I am understanding a little more clearly now. Sorry, I thought that you meant that was how you were using the plug (High/Low/Etc.). I have some LED's that I am going to put on the sidecar, I'm guessing similar to your driving lights (but not as nice!). So simple on/off is all I need for that.
I have just received an order from Motobins yesterday (naturally). But I guess it doesn't take much effort to put together another one with more things that I "need". I'll have to consider those switches, I like the integrated look.
Thanks for all of the answers - especially being specific and making things simple. Much appreciated.
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Almost forgot - when you said that the wiring harness above would be perfect, did you mean as a horn relay?
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Almost forgot - when you said that the wiring harness above would be perfect, did you mean as a horn relay?
Yes that type of set up can be used to power anything,
It would be used to take the amp load off of the existing switches and related wiring.
I have a total of nine relays :o
The only switch that is still carrying the original load is the "kill switch"
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Wow, nine? Did you add these because you've added extra or more powerful stuff? Or you just want to improve on the original system?
And related to my original question, other than your blue plug, do you have any other type of fuse box or block to make your connections? Or is the blue plug and battery enough for you?
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There is a problem reducing load on the original switches.
They where designed to carry the load they see on an OEM bike.
If you reduce this load too much, they will fail. The load "cleans" them at every switch operation. If the current is reduced this cleaning is not done and oxidation increase the switch resistance up to a failure.
Contacts for low voltage/low current switches are quite different (and very often gold plated).
If, on the other hand, the relay you install do not have a diode across the coil, the cleaning function could still be present because of the current spike seen when de-energizing the relay.
hope this helps.
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Umm, not sure if that helps or not George? Are you saying that you shouldn't reduce the load then? I'm guessing you mean only reduce if you are adding something that would increase it (therefore making it "even")?
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Like Bob said The Eager Beaver stuff is fantastic
This would be perfect to use
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/Wiring_Kits/wiring_kits.html
Read on the BMW Airlist that Eastern Beaver has ceased operations. :(
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Really?!? I was just on their website looking to prepare an order. Did it say if that was very recent?
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Can't tell by their website, as to whether they are still in business .
I think I'd hold off on placing an order with them .
It was a one man operation, maybe medical / health issues .
You may want to start looking for parts to make up your own harness .
Here's a link to the companies email .
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Company/Contact/contact.html
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A harness I figure I can do (with some help from you all here). I'd need help with types of relays and stuff but I can put it together myself. I was already planning to order some other things from there - pieces and parts - for some other projects. Just a coincidence that we were talking about EB here.
I knew it was a one man shop so it doesn't take much to cause a problem. But as you saw with the website, there's no indication there.
That's a shame. He had a good rep and looked to supply quality stuff with good prices. Lots of good info there also.
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I've seen 12VDC 30A relays at Radio Shack, if you have any near you .
The chain type auto parts usually carry them as well .
Fry's Electronics also has a selection of 12VDC relays, if there are any in your area .
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I have some Radio Shacks around although I wasn't sure what the remaining ones still stock. Also have a Fry's near work and there are a few others (Altex, maybe? and we have Mauser in the area). If nothing else I can always order online.
For me, it would be a matter of needing to know which to buy and where it would need to go. When it came time to put one together I was planning to ask you all here. But thought that I might go ahead and get some to have on hand for the future if I was going to order some other stuff from EB. As I said about the horn, I still have to weenie single one, adding a bigger, better one will be in the future but no plans for that yet.
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There is a problem reducing load on the original switches.
They where designed to carry the load they see on an OEM bike.
If you reduce this load too much, they will fail. The load "cleans" them at every switch operation. If the current is reduced this cleaning is not done and oxidation increase the switch resistance up to a failure.
Contacts for low voltage/low current switches are quite different (and very often gold plated).
If, on the other hand, the relay you install do not have a diode across the coil, the cleaning function could still be present because of the current spike seen when de-energizing the relay.
hope this helps.
True
But looking at the stock wiring diagram some of the switches are only carrying the current of a relay anyway and the coils are resistor suppressed
So I am more worried about a 35 year old switch over heating and burning up from getting dirty
You may be able to clean a oxidized switch but a burnt up switch is not very easy to repair
Most of the extra relays I have are for added on accessory's
Driving lights
tank bag
heated grips
Aux driving lights
Emergency flasher
Fiamm Freeway blaster horns
Turn signal beeper relay
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BPT, I've yet to see switches from a BMW bike destroyed by the load BMW put on to them.
They die from the sun burning the plastic down to dust.
I've had left hand switches dismantled and the contacts were pristine.
It is a different story if you replace the 55/65W H4 bulb to a 100/80 W or add a couple of 55W H1 headlights...
In the latter, I would add a small extra load on the OEM switch to pilot the relay powering the new headlights.
BMW supplied stuff is of good quality (well was.... ).
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I just got some stuff for my Triumph from Eastern Beaver a few months ago. I hope he is able to get the business going again. I get the Airlist but I generally just skim the subjects and delete it if I don't see anything that looks interesting.
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Hi Ed - Sorry, I am traveling and this is the first time I've been able to look in for a while. I made a separate post about Eastern Beaver, he is up and running and didn't sound like he had ever stopped.