The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Jharpe on October 24, 2007, 12:03:43 PM
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Just upgraded the alternator and starter, checked fluids, replaced the battery with a new AGM and lubed the input spline.
All is well for a couple of short day rides and then the horrible noise started in the tranny.
Checked and rechecked everything, found nothing obvious.
Searched around and found a post on www.boxerworks.com that matched my symptoms.
Horrible vibration and noise on acceleration at the beginning of a shift change. No noise on down-shift or from the engine when the cluth is pulled. So...
Input shaft shock absorber nibs are sheared :o
Good news: Economically it may make more sense to buy a good used tranny instead. The good news is still bad, just better than the really bad...
So now I am searching, watching and hoping a good tranny pops up.
Got a couple of watches on Ebay and some classified sites.
If anyone has a good ~50k mile tranny they need to find a good home for... ;)
Of course I will trade a bag full of coins and promise to take care of it, feed it some good synthetic and moly the splines regularly.
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The moderator of the Boxerworks site, Matt Richards (I think), also has a parts store associated with the site.
He's located in Watkinsville in the Athens, Ga. area. May want to give him a call and see if he can do anything for you.
Getting your transmission rebuilt will be costly, I had mine overhauled, and replaced all of the bearings seals, shifter spring, cut and install a shaft circlip was just under $600. So your looking at a good $800 + for what you need done.
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You have confirmed my fears and my decision to try to find a good used transmission.
If that works out, I may in the future try to repair the current one myself if the parts don't break the bank.
It's raining here today and I still want to ride. Soon...
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Have a bit of patience and religiously watch the usual spots: ebay, IBMWR Marketplace websites, and the BMWMOA flea market forum. You could also post a "wanted" ad in the IBMWR and BMWMOA sections, as well as our Sale/Trade section here. With a bit of luck, you should be able to find a good condition used transmission for $500 - $600.
This is what I did - I still have my old, broken one, which I plan to either attempt to rebuild myself, or else save up the clams to have someone with more tools and experience
do for me so that I'll have a spare.. If you've got an airhead, it is good to have a spare transmission somewhere. And as a bonus, as long as the model year ranges are
equivalent (to coincide with the clutch/carrier/pushrod/flywheel changes) the same transmission will work on an R65 or R80 or R100.
Sorry to hear about your trouble - hope that you're able to find a replacement soon !
-Mike
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The words of wisdom here are a very good thing. :)
Now lurking all over to find a replacement tranny. Have a couple of maybes out there.
Maybe this will give me an opportunity to trim down the honey-do list a bit. ::)
Of course I could do a bearing, brake pad and instrument pod work session instead...
Better not yet, been spending too much time with the metal mistress in distress.
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Could this problem be related to the input spline lube you did? Any comments on this? I'm about to do a spline lube & that sounds a bit scary! Thanks, bill conquest
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I'm assuming that Jharpe has - or soon will- pull the transmission back to just confirm that the
terrible sound and lack of motion is indeed NOT the input splines on the clutch disk being
shaved/sheared off. That can also make a helluva nasty sound and will be basically quiet
if you have the clutch lever pulled in. IFF it happens to be that, instead of the input shaft in the
transmission, you *might* get out of this quite a bit easier/cheaper if the tranmission input shaft splines
are still good - otherwise it will also mean a tranny rebuild.
I don't think a failure on the transmission's internal shock damper gear could be caused by an error
being made while lubing the input splines. Maybe if one put the transmission back onto the engine
in a severely misaligned manner but the design of the bell housing prevents that from happening - either
you couldn't get it on or else, if you used a snowplow to shove it on anyway, you'd crack/break the bell housing.
I suspect that this is just a very unfortunate coincidence...
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I did check the input splines and alignment when things started sounding bad. The bike was happy for two days after the spline lube / alternator and starter upgrades.
Splines looked good and were still coated with the molly.
I know alignment is very important. Pull the clutch a few times or bump the starter while tightening things up should have things lines up nicely.
Bill, don't worry about the spline lube. On a scale of 1 - 10 I would call it a 3 or high 2.
Like Mike said, just an unfortunate coincidence. Murphy usually bites hardest after a maintenance.
Will be pulling the tranny out in the next week or two. Will post pictures of the culprit.
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Might want to drain the transmission oil, and see if there is anything out of the ordinary in there.
Also you can remove the rubber plug on the left side of the engine used for viewing the ignition timing, to see if there is any freshly ground up metal in that area.
Either way the transmission is coming out.
I don't think there is any relationship between having done a spline lube, then having a catastrophic failure of the transmission.
I'm sure if the input splines were in that bad of shape , it would have been noticed when the splines were cleaned and lubed
Weather in the south central deserts of Arizona :
0930 MST (-7hrs GMT)
Clear, Sunny
Temp : 76 F (24 C)
Humidity : 21 %
Dew Point : 34 F.
Wind : East at 11 mph (18 km/h)
Baro : 30.01 in Hg (762 mm), and falling
A great day to wash windows.
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Bob,
I bet if I drug a magnet around the bottom of the transmission, I would hear at least one chunk of metal sliding around in there.
Guess luck kept it out of the gears.
Now that would have been a very bad sound. Me screaming when the tire locked up would have been worse...
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Here is a possibility on the tran
Sale-452930235@craigslist.org
In craigslist for LA (Northridge CA is the city listed)
He has a complete R65 for parts. Ad states to email what you need and he will send you a price.
Good Luck
Jim Dishman
Cadillac, Nichigan
79 R65
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Thanks Jim!
Just sent an email out inquiring.
I was wondering about spline composition differences. I read somewhere about the later years being a more durable makeup.
Guessing if I don't get lazy and do what needs to be done before it has to be, it won't matter. I am almost obsessive about the PM's on the bike so it shouldn't matter.
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There was an upgrade done to the transmission input shaft, it was either chrome or nickel plated.
I don't know if the upgraded version was ever installed on production bikes, or if it was only available as a replacement part afterward.
Weather for the south central desert of Arizona :
1115 MST (-7 hrs GMT)
Clear , Sunny
Temp : 84 F (29 C)
Humidity : 16 %
Dewpoint : 32 F
Wind : ENE 13 mph ( 21 km/h)
Baro : 29.94 in Hg. (762 mm)
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The later model mono-shock bikes had this "improvement". I can say that when I lubed mine at almost 50k miles it still looked brand new...
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I asked Oak about either nitriding a spline or PTFE coating a spline for my 1980 when the time came (as there are no nickleplated splines for the early R65s). He actually answered me expressing concerns about the high temps of the nitriding process warping an expensive shaft or coatings reducing the clearance between the input shaft and the fricion plate. At the moment my splines are only about half worn and don't seem to be getting worse (with regular lubrication).
Anybody else gone off the reservation with these input splines?
Tranny 78,000 miles and still counting.
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Speaking of spline lube...
I did a good bit of research and decided on this:
Loctite 51048 Moly Paste
65% moly, friction coefficient of 0.06, and temps up to 750 F. It is sticky like nothing else I have seen.
Admittedly have not had a good deal of time to observe performance, but should soon be applying it to a new used set of splines on the tranny it's attached to.
I know the debate, discussion of what to use is never-ending, but anyone see a problem with this lube?
http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/MOLYP-EN.pdf
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I'm sure that it will be more than adequate, as long as it's a quality lubricant, and you don't let the interval between cleaning and lube get too long, you'll be just fine .
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Have decided to go with a rebuild instead of the unknown misery most used contain.
Was looking at a couple of transmissions on Ebay and that helped make up my mind.
One went for almost 400 and the other appears to have been outside without a speedo cable or plug in it. :o
I bet that one is full of surprises.
Will be sending the broke tranny to Chicago for Oak to look over and renew.
Will be picking up and shelling Pecans to pay for the excellent rebuild.
Get what you pay for is loudly on my mind lately.
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Try Mark at Re-psycle BMW, he will have a used transmition. I believe that any airhead trans will fit, ask just to be sure......Dew.
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Thanks for the info! I may end up calling while mine is being rebuilt. Just to have a spare when it is done, and do some riding now. Will work on freeing up some more green.
It's been a week now and it feels like much longer.
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I picked up one about a year ago for my '95 R100RT from an '82 R100 for $300 and after one fall/winter season it's been fine. I sent my transmission to Boxers by Bruce (in Pantego, TX) and had it rebuilt for a little over $300. That was all gaskets, bearings, seals, pawl spring, and new neutral switch. I now have it "on the shelf" as a spare when one of the others bites the dust.
I was lucky in that I was able to be patient and got it for a good price...