The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: jonathanrowley on June 05, 2016, 09:03:01 AM
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So - onto the next issue, I finally got the Bike moving again after ignition issues and replacement Bean can and using it, until yesterday the Battery ran flat!
I've seen this behaviour since I built it in the UK but I've been putting off a fix for 2 years now with limited running and constant trickle conditioning of the battery.
I recently upgraded the Voltage Regulator to the Enduralast one which pushes circa 14.2 volts and again - I've read all the online info on Charging circuits, bad connections etc. This doesn't seem to have helped keep the battery up.
I've got a 3 month old Battery - which admittedly did run flat when my ignition conked, but I re-charged and put it back on.
I've not been running lights - daylight only mainly but still it went flat.
Starts first twist when cold, but when the Bike is hot or run seems to be very slow at cranking.
I have also tried keeping the revs up and in a higher gear to encourage charging?
So, I've taken the plunge and ordered the 450W Enduralast kit as I've not got the Garage to pull it apart again and clean every cable and need to buy my way out of it, mainly so as I don't get stranded in the Desert at 110 deg F.
Any ideas?
Or does everyone on this forum kind of agree that the standard 36 year old Bosch charging system on these bikes is just not up to the job and degrades with age?
Thanks for the debate... Variable Regulator upgrade pic
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Any ideas?
Or does everyone on this forum kind of agree that the standard 36 year old Bosch charging system on these bikes is just not up to the job and degrades with age?
I don't agree that the stock system is not up to the job. In it's day it was considered a powerful system compared to say a contemporary Triumph that put out less than half the watts. I've commuted on an airhead with a stock charging system for the last 10 years and not once had a flat battery. It did need a weekly top up charge when I was running and ageing wet cell battery but with a modern sealed battery it stays fully charged even when only used 2 days per week.
I do agree though that it might degrade if not maintained in terms of good electrical connections and brushes. The Enduralast sytem will share some of those same connections so they'll still need to be checked.
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I have to agree with Barry. There is nothing wrong with the stock charging system. I use to live less then a mile from work rode everyday for over five years. Never need to charge the battery. Always seamed to need to change the battery about every two years. Even the Honda I had needed a battery about the same. It was even hard on the battery in cold weather. You would think you were going to kill a battery starting.
I have upgraded all my bikes to the Omega just because I wanted to.
Don
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So - o
Or does everyone on this forum kind of agree that the standard 36 year old Bosch charging system on these bikes is just not up to the job and degrades with age?
Well, the 38 year old alternator from my R100 is still providing sterling service on my R65.
Like all things the Bosch alternator is CAPABLE of degrading with age, but before consigning one to the dustbin of history there are a few checks to make. The very simplicity of the system makes checks easy to isolate whether the fault is in the stator, the rotor or the diode board, you then simply repair or replace the component that is actually faulty.
Now I'll tell you why I absolute loathe, hate and detest every one of the so-called high out put alternators that has crossed my path.
Actually I'm not, I've just deleted nearly 1,000 words most of which would be of minimal interest to most people. Simply put most of your "high output" alternators are utterly incapable of maintaining their supposed rated output for more than a few minutes and, as they heat up they rapidly drop to either pretty much stock (or in a lot of cases, less than stock) output, That these things continue to sell is the ultimate "I want to believe" on the part of the buyers.
The only way to get more power (electrical) out of an airhead involves fitting a pulley in place of the existing rotor, cutting a slot in the side of the front cover that you dislike the most and making a nice strong mount tethered to the frame engine mounts on which to fit the auto alternator of your choice. Works well, but is as ugly as sin.
Messing about with the stock location and the physical limits imposed by where it has to fit is simply trying to pour a quart from a pint pot with exactly the same chance of success.
In my considerably less than humble opinion, the best approach is get the stock system working as well as it possibly can and then systematically replace filament bulbs with LEDs. About the only worthwhile departure from stock is an electronic regulator, preferably with adjustable output.
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About the only worthwhile departure from stock is an electronic regulator, preferably with adjustable output.
Hi Tony. Is there a regulator replacement in Australia that is easy to obtain?
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About the only worthwhile departure from stock is an electronic regulator, preferably with adjustable output.
Hi Tony. Is there a regulator replacement in Australia that is easy to obtain?
Not adjustable but an excellent replacement for the stock regulator is the Bosch (Australia) RE55. There is also the RE53 which differs only that it lacks an earth pin and earths through the frame (which works perfectly on the R65). Sadly they can cost a lot. The first one I bought in the early 1980s was $8 (I still have the receipt), Ashdown/Inghrams want around $40 for them now which starts to make the Endurolast device attractive on a costs basis.
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Whoops. Apparently RE55 is the 2 pin one and RE57 is the 3 pin one.
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Like Tony said
Fitting LED's and getting the charging voltage up in the 14.3 range with a AGM battery makes a world of difference
The Odyssey AGM even likes it around 14.7
I am running Sylvania ZEVO LED Lights 1156R in the tail and brake and I run a pair of Rigid LED 20deg floods for daytime running lights with the headlight turned off.
The LED's pull very little amperage if the voltage is kept up
Before I did all this I as going to get a 450w alternator to keep up with the heated gear in the winter but now with the LEDS I will not need it
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Does the battery go flat when your ridding it or after it has sat turned off for a while
the best thing to do is fit a volt meter so you can tell what your charging is doing while riding
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Whoops. Apparently RE55 is the 2 pin one and RE57 is the 3 pin one.
Thanks I will look at the alternative and see.
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That these things continue to sell is the ultimate "I want to believe" on the part of the buyers.
Guess this is why
"Modern charging technology updates the BMW Airhead original under-performing 20 amp (max) alternator and rectifier.
The critically important higher amperage output of this system at lower engine RPMs allows lighting, heating and other accessories to be used without discharging the battery or overloading the charging system. The EnDuraLast System produces 20 amps at 2000RPM!
Install it now and make it the BEST and FINAL improvement to your charging system!"
Taken from the website of the seller. http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/PartsDetails.aspx?source=catalog&diagram=EL_ENDURAL
After reading your view, I get it, but probably if you start looking at the system, diagnosing and replacing bits like the Rotor - you start to end up at significant cash anyway - the stock Rotor is around $250 I think from what I can see.
Plus the graph... below
To be honest if I was still in the UK with a nice cool garage I'd rip it apart get my meter on it and diagnose - but here in the Desert it's not so easy.. leading me to the expensive but relatively quick fix solution.
Will report back but may also get it diagnosed here too and try and understand what is not right.
Thanks though -
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the best thing to do is fit a volt meter so you can tell what your charging is doing while riding
You read my mind, I've got one on order too for monitoring, but
1. I've got an ignition light, which goes off after start
2. Seems to degrade when hot, so that if I stall cranking is slow
3. 3 weeks since full charge and battery is almost flat - might just start it cold
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That these things continue to sell is the ultimate "I want to believe" on the part of the buyers.
Guess this is why
"Modern charging technology updates the BMW Airhead original under-performing 20 amp (max) alternator and rectifier.
The critically important higher amperage output of this system at lower engine RPMs allows lighting, heating and other accessories to be used without discharging the battery or overloading the charging system. The EnDuraLast System produces 20 amps at 2000RPM!
Install it now and make it the BEST and FINAL improvement to your charging system!"
Taken from the website of the seller. http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/PartsDetails.aspx?source=catalog&diagram=EL_ENDURAL
Have a look at Snowbum's site for some actual testing rather than seller's advertising. To repeat "you cannot pour a quart from a pint pot" which is exactly what the seller of these fine devices is trying to convince you they are doing.
BTW, what you are describing has all the hallmarks of a battery problem, not a charging problem - a $10 voltage gauge would tell you a lot I suspect.
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Hello !
An alternator is not rocket science and the device is known to man since the discovery of electricity.
What produces electricity in a system ? Well it is the intensity of the magnetic flux and the number of change pr seconds. Intensity is in the inverse proportion of space. So if you want more flux, get a bigger magnet and use it wayyyy closer to the coil. As per number of change per second, nothing new here. The alternator produces much more at 5k RPM than at 800.
The Bosch system is very good and very well made. 280W is was one can really expect from an automotive style alternator in our bikes. You may get a little more juice IF the rotor produces more magnetizing energy (but this will require more current) and if the gat between the rotor and the stator is lessened a lot. I do not think that the "better" system are that modified in these areas...
This is just my 2 cents (NZ cents for now)
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So - a small update.
I braved my Garage and cleaned and greased all connections. No charging, Fresh battery bought this morning in Sharjah.
So decided to take off the whole charging system off in readiness for the Enduralast which according to DHL has landed in the UAE already.
Upon inspection, the Rotor measured 4 Ohms so OK.
The Regulator is new and so I suspect the Diode board.
It looks like the Diode board is cracked at the PCB - I'll post a picture but think this is the issue, probably never charged since it was built in 2014!
Will report more when I get the Enduralast on.
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Cracks int he diode board - that'll do it all right.
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Cracks int he diode board - that'll do it all right.
Yep. Pretty sure that'll correct what ails ya. Do you still plan on swapping in the EnDuraLast system?
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Do you still plan on swapping in the EnDuraLast system?
Yep - I think again on a Bike built in 1981, time to invest in it's future and upgrade it in the process. I only bumble around at low revs, so like the idea of low RPM charging.
The Stator was pretty rusty too and so I reason that $200 on a 1981 spec system wasn't worth it. Should get it and install later this week.
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So, done - took about 3 hours over two evenings as I needed to drill the mounting for the Regulator. First though I had to borrow a Drill !
Anyhow, I can report that the Enduralast kit is well documented, well put together and of a high quality. Instructions are also excellent and everything needed is in the box, including even a Rotor drift, which surprised me.
Lots of crimped connections - which I'm not 100% happy with, may have to heat solder to get peace of mind. But I got the new 450w Alternator, Regulator on and wired and the bike is charging again.
Seems like it's very powerful and is well engineered - all the old stuff has to be stripped off and dumped.
Even at low revs it pumps out 14.3 volts so looks good.
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Hold on to that old stuff if you can. Save for the failed diode board, you may be able to help a brother Airhead with a gently used part.
There's a topic floating around the forum right now about some of us junking old parts, then discovering we, or someone else, needs 'em.
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OK - only trouble is, it's in a shopping bag in the Middle East so a million miles away from any Airhead owners I think...