The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Baffo on November 20, 2006, 02:49:50 AM
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Ok so I want to modify my (unrestricted) R65GS and I could use some help/info, here goes
First of all: I ride onroad mainly and especially inner-city-guerilla, please read all before answering because camshaft, gearbox and final drive mods will each have an effect on the others.
Easy parts exchange between restricted and unrestricted seen here:
http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/specs.html
-exhaust, I ram a 38mm hole-saw in the exhaust, hoping to take out the last inner bit and leaving the outside looking original (hole-saw fit perfectly between inner and outer tube). (first I ordered some different sizes mainjets offcourse, which is hard to find out which partnumbers they have so if anyone needs partnumbers from 130-170...) This last bit of absorption pipe is ~20cm long and after disconnecting inner and outer at the end I found out that at the other side it is still connected inside as well...anyone has a picture of an opened up original exhaust end-pipe?. Problem is that the exhaust is way to quiet when driving ~110km/h on a bycicle filled dyke, they can only hear you 15mtrs away so had a few near-hits... So by just removing half or the complete last inner pipe I hope to give it just a bit more noise, rest of the pipe is reflection so not much gain in power anticipated.
-header pipes, I'm contemplating a dubbel crossover system, so one in front of the engine and the collector at the back of the engine, I'm under the impression that the one in front is for high revvs/street use and the one in the back for lower revvs/nduro/offroad. Something like this
http://www.staintune.com.au/exhausts/bmw/images/BMW%20R45%20R65%20R65LS%20Single%20Crossover.jpg
There is a double also
http://www.staintune.com.au/exhausts/bmw/images/BMW%20R65%20R65LS%20Double%20Crossover.jpg
But then you have to have 2 low end pipes also
-final drive, I'm thinking of using one from a restricted R65GS (3,44 9/31 versus 3,36 11/37) so the bike has a little less top speed but gets there much quicker, but the normal 1st gear will become very short and the 5th also, so maybe only combined with a longer 5th to have some higher top/cruising speed.
-gearbox, with or without this other final drive I think a shorter 1st gear will be nonsense on a street bike, but a longer 5th will improve always?
-camshaft, having found 7 different camshafts but apparently in 2 categorie's, probably because lift-hight. There are for instance 2 different 308 cams, one for R45, R65 and restricted 65's and one for 800cc's and up. And I've read some good reports about this mountain/enduro 296 cam, which is not a BMW original only aftermarket from 2 or 3 producers, but...will it fit my R65GS and not smash the valves against the piston? Or should I keep my 308...? Or get the restricted 256 cam, which supposedly is also good for higher revving engines.
Also, imagine a 296 cam, 9/31 final drive, and short 1st gear, 17 inch tyres with Michelin Pilot Powers... I'm afraid I'll have to learn how to Wheelie...
-front end, is going to be an XTZ one like on the Legobike with stabiliser, only then with 320mm brake discs from mxtec, caliper brackets from he-motorradtechnik and a Brembo 16x18 radial brake-pump...
Also still would like to know fitting top yokes/triple clamps from other bikes/makes/after market, found eurotech 31426
http://www.eurotechmotorsports.com/details/images/BIG/31426.jpg if there are others let me know
-wheels, said earlier, 17 inches? front easily a 3.5x17" but the rear?
-carbs, allensperformance sells Keihin CR Roundslide Smoothbore carbs, I'm looking at these because I heard that boxers don not run well with Flatslides, comments on sizing etc welcome
-tank, for esthetic purposes I just bought a 26ltr tank on ebay, which is going to be painted silver/gray, together with the rest all black I think is a nice combination example here: http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/BMW-R65_gs.jpg , and the bike is going to be used as my (own) company vehicle, being a computer repairman onsite/athome.
-tyres, well for now I just ordered a set of BT45 from rodamoto.net in spain (check m out, really cheap) I would have loved getting Michelin Anakee's but because of the 18" rear wheel... and if there are going to be 17 inches front and rear it's going to be Michelin Pilot Power
-side stand, the one from boxertoko/CTI seems to be the best, the original is fixed to the wider R80+ bars and with my engine being 6cm smaller in width... Saw that an R45 has different bars but actually I don't want any bars, have also found motobins Surefoot, but also atached to the bars
-airfilter, K&N? with or wihout modified arifilter box lid
-headlights, xenon from LEDSEE?
-suspension, well keeping an eye out on ebay for a WP shock, and with or without an XTZ front-end there are going to be progressive springs in the fork.
What I've done so far since I bought the bike is; small gearbox overhaul, 1 new exhaust thread, new piston rings, overhauled the trigger-unit, replaced carb needles jets needletubes pre-atomizer, new valves and seats, 1 helicoil in carter for cylinder bolt and filled up the caps on the carb lids, replaced timing chain and tensioners, and got me an original windscreen.
So please, give me your opinion on my thought up mods or maybe you have better mods/ideas, or know of parts, producers
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The double crossover exhaust was standard on 1981-1984 bikes from the factory. I have read discussions that had several people indicated that their "butt-o-meter" could tell no difference between the two. Seems I do remember knowledgeable folks in the same discussion indicate that no crossovers at all might help top end but hurts low/mid range a bit.
Are you getting some custom rims made up for 17" tires? Sounds expensive, to accomplish what?
As far as sidestand, I have a browns on all of our bnikes, very stable and doesn't lean the bike over too far.
I have K&N filters in our bikes. Some love 'em, some hate 'em. The airflow increase boasts probably don't do anything for an engine in stock trim as it is doubtful it will pull enough air for it to matter. I like them for maintenance reasons.
Keep us up to date on your progress...
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It seems that a crossover in front of the engine is in fact for low(er) revving engines
17 inches is for SuperMotard (see akront page on my site) and yes it is not cheap, specially because you can ebay 36 spokeholes mainly and very rarely find 40, cornering is greatly improved and worth the money, also MPP's are fabulous tyres
URL for the Browns?
K&N is indeed maintenance and also every little bit helps, all minor mods make one great bike 8-)
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Hi Baffo,
Exhaust - (The Harley guys say Loud pipes save lives?) I have a HI note low note Fiam for errant bicyclists.
Air Filter - +1 on the K&N one less thing to buy every 5000km.
Gear Box/Final Drive - I looked at the HPN top 5th gears and possibly the low 1st gear. I just drove almost 8000 miles in September and I think I will not bother with the low 1st as I have fixed my clutch issues. I don't think the higher top gear will do me any good unless I do some serious drag reduction. I have the Luftmeister which is as about as draggy as you can get. When (if) I get a Hannigan (or Pichler?) then I will look into the high top gear. BTW - there are two flavors (+6% and +15%?) and it could get really expensive as some of the older gearboxes have their gears cut at different angles than the newer ones. I may have to settle for "just" a rebuilt gearbox when the time comes. 72,000 miles and counting......
Carbs - Over here there is a company that sells Mikiunis for the Boxers but I don't think for the r65. The stock size is 32mm so you can probably go a bit over (34?) with no trouble tuning.
Notes on building an R65 engine. The R65 motor is (I believe) an R45 motor punched out to 650cc. It is kinda at the limit for what it can do. There is some anecdotal evidence of engine unreliability on bigger bore/HP R65 motors. So mods that improve the operation of the motor are OK. Best be concervative. If you are going to be operating at sustained higher rpm (i.e. your cam choice) then consider lighter moving parts like the flywheel, the connecting rods, pushrods, wrist pins, pistons, valves with higher tension valve springs. You should also consider a higher capacity/pressure oil pump and an oil cooler. Talk to someone about perhaps increasing the diameter oil holes in the crank (in conjunction with the higher capacity oil pump) to allow more pressure/oil to get to the main bearings. I have "heard" that they are small. The Type 247 system for getting oil to the cylinder heads is amazing to me, really - squeezing oil past an o-ring on the uppercylinder studs is simplicity - its a wonder it works.
Oak Oakenshield at askoak@aol.com would be a great person to talk to in your project. Much more knowlegable than I am.
You know you're about 10 years too late. Luftmeister used to make a 4-valve head for the type 247 motor. If you really wanted the motor to breath then this would be the way. That and the turbochargers you once could buy. KAAAVROOOMMM
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Fiam? Hannigen trikes? Pichler whirlpool? Please give me URL/pictures etc
I have no clutch troubles but sometimes I'm in tight spots on- or offroad and then a really short 1st would be nice, if I take a 31/9 final drive I could use a longer 5th, and having the latest version of the 2V gearboxes I only have the 5% options
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Hannigan - http://www.hanniganmotorcyclefairings.com/ expensive.
Pitchler is a German company right?
Bill
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Carbs: got this link http://www.rockypointcycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RPC&Product_Code=2103&Category_Code=B12
Engine: it is an r80 engine with shorter stroke, luckily 8-)
There is no o-ring at the studs and I'm not getting a siebenrock with cut down cylinder skirts or anything like that (although possible http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35194&highlight=r65gs), I think I'm quite conservative when it comes to tuning, but first I want to know all options, then I decide (I'm getting a feeling/hunch that a 336 cam might work without deepening the valve spaces in the piston, see http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1163620740) in this thread I refer to some other sites as well, which go a bit further like street rod's etc http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jroche/road_rod.html
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Hi Baffo,
The last is a cool article. Filed it for later use. Thanks.
Bill
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I agree, Bill, it's a gem.
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The new tank (stickers will be removed and probably painted silver/gray):
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F800%2FIMGP2443.jpg&hash=eb6ab3a3d7150259e6ca08bcc468e7ff9aaab0d2)
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Cool Baffo. You are moving right along. Is the side cover handmade? That tank looks like its got the port for the RH side petcock. I'd put that on just to get that extra gas out of the RH side of the tank. What model year tank is that ? 1990's R100? Six gallon tank right (24liters?) Looks great!
Bill
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Looks kinda like a 90s R100R tank. The RS and RT had the "traditional" 6 gallon tank...
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The ad said "26 l-Tank R 100 GS" and has a non-countersunck opening and no the cover is original, and yes 2 petcocks which I still have to buy as well as a lockable tankcap. Next week I'm expecting an identical exhaust so I can open it up and reconfigure the inside (will take pictures) and I'm still negotiating the XTZ front-end, have asked around for a new yoke pin but am also contemplating a stiffer top yoke for this fork for the time being.
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Minor update:
the tank was leaking so it's getting welded and I get some money back from the seller, probably have to repaint and reseal the inside, so probably is going to be silver/gray after all.
exhaust is still not here, found an 1100 front brake caliper (4 pistons) which I will add soon, XTZ is now at my place so stripping the front-end will be soon, and found a cheap Twinmax (google) and that works -really- well, especially for me, taking of the carbs etc quite a lot so I don't have to go to the tuner ever so often
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new pictures ! (bottom ones)
http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/R65GS.html
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That is one interesting machine you are brewing up...
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Replaced the other 7 cylinder bolt threads for helicoils today (a 2nd one was coming loose on its own and got fed up with it 8-) ) So now I can start test fitting the 'new' exhaust system, but questions arose today for the valve clearance.
I have an R80G/S book which says IN 10mm and EX 15mm, and a general BMW book says IN 10mm EX 20mm (for R45/65/LS and R80 +1985), and I have this odd R65G/S so in a way for offroading you'd say a bit bigger clearance, for fiestier response smaller clearance, and higher revving engines bigger clearances. It's at 15/20mm now
So what do you use (with which engine) and what would you recommend, onroad inner-city and B-roads.
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'New' leaky tank from ebay:
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(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2Fimgp2443.jpg&hash=44e577aae2d5b0a3d98dab463b4455f18c3b284a) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2443.jpg)
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welded and painted:
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(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2FIMGP2572e.jpg&hash=eb8dcd3cb898ffb15092ff7a4807b1702d6e2e54) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2572e.jpg)
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Coating old tank?
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2FIMGP2565.jpg&hash=4b38d54cdc0788bada04daf0e7da5ee8faf437e9) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2565.jpg) (https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2FIMGP2567.jpg&hash=0c7b331d435b8dc18c173a693733fef06fb492a1) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2567.jpg)
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You are brave and strong to ride a 400+ lb dirt bike! I finally saw an R65GS up close and personal at the 2004 National BMWMOA rally in Spokane WA, got pics somewhere... made me want to make one too for backcountry fishing, but talked myself into a 300lb single dualsport instead.
I really like the front end upgrades! Very nice! Keep the progress reports coming!
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I have an R80G/S book which says IN 10mm and EX 15mm, and a general BMW book says IN 10mm EX 20mm (for R45/65/LS and R80 +1985), and I have this odd R65G/S so in a way for offroading you'd say a bit bigger clearance, for feistier response smaller clearance, and higher revving engines bigger clearances. It's at 15/20mm now
So what do you use (with which engine) and what would you recommend, onroad inner-city and B-roads.
I also have a 1999 Haynes that says the latest recommendation is 15/25mm for ALL airheads.
Personally I run 10/20mm in all bikes '78 R100RS, '81 R80G/S and '81 R65 (all three are high mileage)
You aren't going to be able to tell 'feistier response' whether it is 15 or 20 mm.
I always work on the old adage, 'Noisy valves are happy valves"
Chris
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300lbs singles, been there done that (see my website) Now just want to make this cow a little sportier, especially suspension, brakes and 17 inches. But first I'm getting 2 small city cases and have to modify the Z-bars from an R100
Exhaust valve clearances doesn't differ all that much in response, I know, inlet valves on the other hand...
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Ok where was I... 8-)
preparing Acewell 2853 digital dashboard:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2Fimgp2914.jpg&hash=1ac7d764e87a7430d3239ac4840bdc265798247c) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2914.jpg) (https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2Fimgp2915.jpg&hash=31661d66febffadef72b81ae5596589d45eedf18) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2915.jpg)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2FIMGP2927.jpg&hash=652d522d67038f836644e71a9264e7f53c92635c) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2927.jpg) (https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2Fimgp2932.jpg&hash=f5e0b829f1ce76747cdabc30c94fccfb84c87fea) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2932.jpg)
4 more pics:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2Fimgp2940.jpg&hash=aa5f1ae38bff8fcebbecf678e2463961ba645308) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2940.jpg) (https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2Fimgp2942.jpg&hash=6d0d8ce6bd5add231c482efbf1ff8b46b44036ed) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2942.jpg)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2Fimgp2949.jpg&hash=b7f165e45ceb1c961e0a426874911ca479754d65) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2949.jpg) (https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2Fimgp2947.jpg&hash=3aa2f1605cbe8d2190a141b9f496f54ee6b47a23) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP2947.jpg)
O yeah, bought a leaking R80G/S WP shock on ebay which turned out to be a 365mm (instead of a 359mm) had it serviced for road use (thicker oil) and now its too rigid (ugh my back) even on 1st of 11 settings, so have to go back for intermediate thickness oil, 90km/h speedbumping rules ! ;D
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In the meantime...
http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/what.html 8-)
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i like the rebuilt rear frame section. if i am ever lucky enough to find a 85 and up i would like to do something like that.
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That is really a trick looking dash you're building...
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Any chance of a wee write up on how you've gone about fitting that digital dash, components etc. Because the piccys have got me thinking along those lines as a mod for the Bimbo when I get round to putting her back together.
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The meter is an Acewell 2853, wiring specs here (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/acewell-bmw.html) , rest is handmade as I went along so no specs
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so the speed pick up is on the front wheel? did they give enough wire to run it off the back wheel? i ask because i would like to run a duel disc up front and that would make a nice set up if i could do that.
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Not sure if it would be long enough for the rear wheel but with dual brakes you can still run it up front (am getting dual brakes too), and you can extend the wire yourself easily
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first testfitting this http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/what.html
and now
http://media.putfile.com/R65GS-with-Supertrapp-megaphone
(xvid0037 en mp3)
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(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2Fr65monopowergraph.jpg&hash=0f072dd9a2d0819b3b4a46e207e2af3fbdfb9bd0) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/r65monopowergraph.jpg) (https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2Fr65gsdyno.jpg&hash=1b95e923ac1da652de387b4b53b8fefa2aed8a14) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/r65gsdyno.jpg)
red lines is where the carb lids were leaking last year, blue lines is today with Supertrapp megaphones, and K&N
movie http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/R65GSdyno.avi (5mb xvid)
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Test fitting:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2FIMGP3046.jpg&hash=364ada1b5d9874f8063ec4d98b60c35d08e7540e) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP3046.JPG) (https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterbaen.tweakdsl.nl%2FR65GS%2F200%2FIMGP3049.jpg&hash=6034e9f0ff949ef2c0d613683f4149ba23b392ca) (http://westerbaen.tweakdsl.nl/R65GS/800/IMGP3049.JPG)
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You're going to have a very interesting machine when you get done...
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It's for sale...
http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1191234229