The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: BPT on November 27, 2015, 04:49:03 PM
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Does anyone have any experience with this, specifically the one that they call the Bosch Alternator Kit Plus. This is not the 450W setup. With this one you get a modest increase in capacity but it is supposed to be better for charging in stop and go and "around town" riding.
I can't find any negatives to it so that's why I was wondering if anyone here has had any real world experience with it. Seems like a good thing for not much money, under $200 on their website with some of their options added.
As I said in my intro, I am new to BMW's. Unfortunately, the first thing that I learned was how the charging system leaves a little bit to be desired. I had the battery replaced after my first day of riding. After that, I figured that one of the first things to do would be to get things sorted out as well as can be with connections and such. I found out about this upgrade from internet searching and it sounds like it might be just what I need for the type of riding I'll be doing, as long as it really works as I've read it should.
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Is this the charging system you are considering ?????
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/EnDuraLast-II-400-Watt-Charging-System-p/edl400-altkit105.htm
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No, the one I was looking at was this:
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Bosch-Alternator-Kit-BMW-Airhead-EnDuraLast-p/boalt-bmwplus.htm
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You mention that you are new to BMW Airheads... and their care 'n feeding. If you have installed an AGM battery, I might suggest holding off on the charging system replacement and instead, install one of Rick Jone's Motorrad Elektrin solid-state voltage regulators that are already set to 14.3 volts which is the recommended charge rate for AGM batteries. Simply unplug the OEM mechanical VR and plug in the new. Done.
With either system, you'll still need to keep revs up in urban riding situations to insure the battery continues to receive proper charging. That's just one of those Airhead "things" we all do.
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The solid state regulator would be a nice budget option and I know that the Motorrad products have a great reputation. The reason that I was looking at the EnDuraLast setup from the link above is that you get an upgrade in components, better charging, and also a slight increase in power. And while I know that high revs are optimal for charging, these systems supposedly work better than stock at charging at lower revs. For now, short trips and in-town driving are mostly what I'm doing. That's why I was wondering if anyone here had tried this out and knew that it actually worked that way.
I haven't made a decision yet but this looked like a good bang for your buck upgrade, without going to the full-on 400-450 watt versions that are available (but for considerably more$$).
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A far, far better upgrade would be to do as others have suggested and change to a solid state regulator and switch to LED / HID lighting.
The problem you see is that the alternator on our bikes runs at crankshaft speed. The limiting factors are the rotational speed of the rotor and the number of windings on the Stator. You can't change the first and there simply is not enough room to do anything meaningful about the second.
If someone is trying to sell you an "alternator upgrade" ask them how many Watts it outputs cold and how many it puts out when hot.
I am prepared to bet you money that the "hot" rating will be only a minimal improvement over stock.
The stock alternator is not particularly inadequate, the object is simply to give your electrical system more "headroom" to charge the battery - a change to LED lighting is cheaper than any "upgraded" alternator and will give you quite a useful amount of headroom.
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The standard airhead charging system if everything is in order is not bad at all. As has been said a high set point voltage regulator is the first and cheapest no brainer upgrade. A 14.3 volt regulator can even be used safely with a wet cell battery. In combination with an AGM battery it's all the improvement that most riders who do reasonable mileage may need.
For riders who have some difficulty keeping the battery fully charged on short commutes then with AGM batteries you can generally go higher to 14.5 volts or even 14.7 volts in some case if the battery manufacturer prescribes it. Compared to wet cells AGM's have the great advantage of retaining their charge better between rides so for those who don't ride every day it means you are starting out with a pretty much fully charged battery where a wet cell particularly towards the end of it's life might have a significant amount of discharge to make up.
All voltages measured cold.
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::). Some of the Airhead charging upgrade "solutions" remind me of ads I see in various MC and auto magazines:
INCREASED length. GREATER diameter. IMPROVED satisfaction. SMALLER bank balance.
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The system you are considering, is the same as an OEM charging system, 280 watts, 20 amps maximum .
An upgraded regulator is probably the lowest cost upgrade to see if it will cure your situation .
Here's an adjustable regulator from Euromoto Electrics, it's adjustable for output voltage, adust it too high and you will damage the battery .
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/vr-extadj.htm
Also, going through the bikes electrical system and check for corrosion, loose connections, etc ..... , may help as well .
Here's a link to a BMW tech site, it compares the older versions of the Enduralast and Omega charging systems .
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/AftrMrktAlt.htm
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which year and model do you have. I put pt the battery in an Odyssey battery and upgraded the battery cables on my R 80 St along with a valeo knock-off starter from euromoto-eletcrics and it transformed the bike from one that ran down the battery and was hard to start in cold weather to a very good starter in all weather that kept the battery well charged.
Are you actually experiencing problems with the bike or just looking e pto spend money without knowing if you have a need for more wattage.
Both my Airheads do fine with the standard charging system.
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Sorry for the garbled message ( English is my first language ) this is what you get from typing with the computer in your lap and not previewing your post. Best regards John
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Hmmm, let me see if I can address these questions and comments in a way that makes sense.
First, no, I am not looking to waste any money (I can be quite cheap, actually) and, no, I am not a sucker who believes any advertising hype that I read (generally pretty skeptical). I have read numerous reviews and write ups in various spots, this just happens to be the first forum that I am a member of. So I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone has any actual experience with these "upgrades" precisely to ask if they did make any difference or improvement. Most reviews seemed to be positive and didn't appear to be from anyone wanting to sell anything.
John M: I have a 1983 R65 (as far as I know, everything is completely stock). Yes, I have had a problem already. However, I have not put many miles on it yet so maybe it wasn't really a problem at all? After my first couple of days of riding I ended up stuck with a dead battery (I had not left anything on so no user error that I can blame myself for). The place where I bought the bike kindly offered to replace it. I had already taken it to an auto parts store and they told me it was bad (bad cell). Strangely, when I took the battery to the shop, he tested it and told me it was OK. The auto parts store wasn't trying to sell me a battery (they didn't carry them) and the shop gave me a new one for free so neither had any reason to lie to me. That left me confused. Could this all have been just the result of an old, worn out battery and simply having a new one will take care of the "problem"? I hope so. But since that was my first experience, and I have heard, read, etc. about the charging systems being slightly anemic, that's why I decided to look into what can be done to help that, if my new battery isn't the fix. (BTW - any details about your upgraded cables - did you do them yourself, buy them somewhere?)
I had already planned to go through the connections and clean, grease, tighten, etc., just hadn't been able to do that yet. And I've also already been looking into LED's to reduce the load, just trying to decipher the best options for that. As far as needing more capacity, at the moment, no. The only thing I'm considering doing soon is adding a driving light but will probably go LED with that also so it shouldn't be much of a burden. Because it is a sidecar rig I do have a lot of options for adding "stuff", but that will be further down the road. For now I just want the basics running as well as possible.
I will be very happy if I can have the stock system work for my needs. I like to keep it simple. But I am looking at what other options might be available so I can be prepared just in case it doesn't work out that way.
Thanks
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The reason I mention the valeo knock-off from euromotoelectrics is that it draws much less power and spins the motor faster than the standard Bosch starter. My R80 ST was a bad battery drainer with city driving ,the previous owner who had the bike for 20 years said he had always had a problem with the battery running down. replacing the Bosch starter and installing the heavier battery leads from Euromotoelectrics along with checking and cleaning all wiring connections transformed the bike into a very easy starter with the new Odyssey battery. I concur with all other members re the standard charging system being more than adequate if not running heated gear and auxillary lighting .This starterand new battery cables is a very good upgrade and only $140 . My 86 R65 had its Bosch starter rebuilt and it is not as easy to start in very cold weather and can run down the battery if you fluff the starting drill. ( I am talking about temperatures below 32 degrees F
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Speaking of starters, the starter has been on your bike going on 33 years .
It's most likely ' dry ' on lubricants, so it takes more power to operate it .
The starter on my '81 R65 was dry and it brought the battery voltage down to where the ignition system didn't work real well, that coupled with a not too healthy coil, caused very hard starting below 55 F .
A good cleaning and lubrication of the starter, brought the battery voltage back up to where it should be during starter operation .
Also, if you have the OEM grey and black ignition coil, put it on your list of items to replace, it's a known problematic part on these bikes .
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Thanks for the last two replies with the tips. I'll dig around and see if there is a how-to somewhere on starter maintenance. Things like that are great to know and learn for someone new to these.
Ditto for the Valeo starter. For now I don't think that I am having any starter issues so it kind of falls under what has been said above - unless I have a problem with it, leave it alone. But I will keep this in mind if I decide I do need to replace it somewhere down the line. That's the kind of thing I was looking for - actual use and experience with these types of things and seeing that there was a difference. One of the other reasons that I was looking at this upgrade was that it had some other things such as heavier wiring and a HD diode. I figured for the price the main parts plus the other add-ons seemed like a good value *if they worked*. I'll check out the battery cables you mentioned, another simple and possibly inexpensive improvement.
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The bosch starter is reliable with maintenance, however it does draw more power from the battery even when in good condition. The fact that you live in Texas means cold weather starting may not be much of an issue for you , here in Toronto it does cause some hard starting for me in the cold (just got back from a short ride ..35 degrees ,the R65 started but I think a valeo starter is in its future for my cold weather riding. Good luck with your bike I'm sure it just needs a little TLC to get it sorted .
Regards John Muir
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We do get cold here but, in the course of a year, it's a small amount of time. I'm going to check into the starter maintenance mentioned here, along with some other TLC items. Happy to do anything that helps things and doesn't cost anything but time and elbow grease.
I think that I mentioned before, the bike overall seems to be in good shape. Hopefully that is not just my BMW ignorance. But it was complete, clean, and running decently when I bought it. The charging thing is just the very first problem that I had (and right away) and, upon doing a little net searching, I found that it is a common issue with these. So that's why I thought that would be the first thing I would learn about and maybe try to improve, or at least remedy.
I was out of the country for about 6 weeks shortly after I took possession and came back to cold and rain here so that is one reason that I have not been able to do much with it - either riding or wrenching. If we can get just a bit warmer (rain seems to have stopped for now) then I can get back into this. Riding to see what I'm up against and then deciding what to do if I am still having a problem. Hopefully I'll get lucky and the new battery and some connection cleaning will take care of things.
Thanks for the tips.