The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Matt Chapter on April 03, 2015, 10:28:22 AM
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Managed to get a chance to ride my R65 yesterday and today. Leaving the work parking lot, while letting the clutch out in first gear I felt the transmission almost pop out of gear and lurch. Normally I'm a smooth operator but I figured I had muffed it.
Then this morning a couple times while accelerating after the clutch was fully engaged I felt the same thing. I'm pretty sure it was only in first gear. I've also had some trouble with false neutrals when shifting into first at a standstill.
I'm wondering what the cause is, and since I had the transmission rebuilt only a few thousand miles ago I'm naturally suspicious. Is there any chance this is clutch related or is it more likely to be the transmission again?
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Do you have an adjustable linkage between the trasnsmission and shift pedal ???
Try adjusting the footpeg on that side, it's got serrations to adjust it to what suits you .
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Start by re-adjusting the free-play on the clutch cable using the BMW manual method.
Next check the smooth operation of the shifter adjustable linkage
Next you may need a spline lube
Another issue can be the damper on the driveshaft hanging up and clunking (If the R65 driveshaft damper is like the one on my R80G/S that was causing a clunk)
Check the "clunk" section of this page:
http://jhau.maliwi.de/mot/r100tic.html
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Make sure your clutch release fork is not hitting the center stand when it is in the up position :D
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Id first check for slop in the shift linkage to make sure you are getting a "full throw." Wear at the lever pivot and in the crappy "paper clip" linkage will reduce how much lever input makes it to the transmission. If that's reasonably tight, you could try a technique...
Haven't had to do this in first, but I've found it helpful for not hitting a false neutral between 4th and 5th: Pull the clutch, put the bike in gear and continue to hold on the shift lever. Do not release pressure on the shift lever until after you have let the clutch back out.
When shifting from 4th to 5th (especially when pulling hard) I can sometimes feel the shift lever move an extra notch as I let the clutch out. That's the 2nd step of the dogs engaging. If you don't get the dogs fully engaged they can pop out under a load.
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Have you changed boots. footwear ???
I had a pair of boots, that I could shift my oilhead with no problems, but the R65, couldn't shift correctly to save my life !!!!
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Well, first step I figured I'd adjust the clutch free play. I've got 2.1 mm at the lever as seen here, but does the adjuster seem pretty far "adjusted"?
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8698/16938386099_05dbeb01e3.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rNME4D)
I wonder if I have two separate problems, i.e. the slipping during acceleration is a spline lube, and the false neutrals are a worn clutch.
And good thought Bob, but I've used the same boot make for the past 16 years. Only on my fourth pair.
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That does seem to be more than I've got on my R65's .
Did you do the adjustment at the transmission first, before you made this adjustment at the clutch lever ???
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The Clymer bible seemed to indicate only one adjustment. I do think that the exposed cable is too long at the transmission.
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The adjustment at the transmission, is done with the adjuster bolt that goes into the rubber boot at the backside of the transmission .
I don't remember the proper method of adjustment, but when you're done, the arm the cable attaches to, should be about 90 degrees to the transmission .
What you're doing, is assuring that there is a few millimeters of cable / arm movement, before you start to activate the clutch .
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It might also be that presses in on the pushrod/throwout piston assembly has backed out..
I think that the 'magic' number for expose cable at the from the transmission boss to the clutch lever arm is 201mm..
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Dimension 'C' is 201mm. You set that with the handle bar adjuster and then set the handlebar clutch lever free play with the adjuster at '4' This is not remotely intuitive but it is the correct way to do it.
When set using this method the operating lever at the back of the gearbox will be parallel with the gearbox end cover when the handlebar lever is at half travel.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv727%2FBerwyn%2FCapture.jpg&hash=bbec6f553d1ebbceb1814d6eac3504587e5a50fe)
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I went back and reread the procedure, and re performed the adjustment. I like where it is now, at 7 15/16" (201.613 mm, as if i could be that accurate).
The shifting feels better, less false neutrals and more positive shifting. However it still slips when accelerating, after the clutch is out. I'm going to investigate the spline lube.
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Make sure your clutch release fork is not hitting the center stand when it is in the up position
It will cause the fork to be held in and not allow the clutch to fully apply pressure to the clutch plate.
This happened to me :-[
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Make sure your clutch release fork is not hitting the center stand when it is in the up position
Do you happen to have a picture of this?
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Matt, Position the bike on the sidestand and take a look at the transmission's long arm in its extended [position. It may be contacting the centerstand. If it's not, then there's other issues with the clutch.
Any oil puddles that might indicate a rear seal failure?
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So you're saying there's a stand other than the center stand??
This is a monoshock frame, the only thing the center stand contacts is the footpeg mount. Oil puddles are situation normal, just the oil pan gasket weep.
I haven't managed to rustle up the spline lube how to, anybody have it to hand?
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Here's one I keep on file.
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Author Rick's web.BikeWorld spline lube technique is what you might consider a Quick n' Dirty. Note there are no comments regarding old grease packed into the spline cavities or grease squeeze out which can contaminate the clutch.
A good, proper spline lube requires removal of the transmission. That chore means detaching the drive shaft universal, struggling with the rubber boot and pulling the swing arm pivot bolts. Doing so, you have the opportunity to clean, inspect and re-grease the swing arm bearings. You also get a chance to inspect the entire clutch assembly.
Choices. Decisions.
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When you do the spline lube, make sure you only lube the spline on the transmission input shaft. DO NOT put any grease on the inside of the clutch friction plate teeth as per the picture in the Clymer manual. If you do the spline lube per Clymer you will end up with "Half" a clutch (lots of slipping.) :(
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Talked to my mechanic yesterday, and found out that my transmission had an extremely rare failure. Apparently one of the bearings was moving along the shaft. The fix is to modify the shaft and replace the bearing so that it won't move. Too bad it's only taken three months to figure out. He tells me that the shaft modification is best performed by a specialist (even specialier than an airhead mechanic, I guess) so the transmission has been shipped there and might be back next week. He also tells me that some transmissions had this modification from the factory and will be recommending this modification on any other rebuilds he does.
Recap: yes it was the transmission, probably not related to the rebuild though, excepting the fact that the bearing was replaced during the rebuild.
I have some small hope that I might enjoy the fall riding season after all!
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Hey, Matt! Long time no hear from. Happy to know you're still above the grass. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Sounds like that circlip problem, where the factory stopped using them for a while. Then started again, but of course there was nothing wrong with the ones without it. According to them.
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Hi Matt,
I'm currently inside my 1985 gearbox (literally much to my girlfriend's despair) which has no output shaft front circlip. It's done 170K km (just over 100K miles) and the gears are in good order, apart from the bearings which I'm replacing.
Yes the big bearing may've been pushed forward a little and caused extra stress on the rear bearing but I wasn't experiencing what you were Matt, only a noisier gearbox with some grinding vibration through the footpegs especially noticable in 4th and 5th at speeds 60-80km/h.
The gearbox has been entered before by Prev Owner ('s) and since I've only done 15K km since owning it over 1.5 years, I don't know when the gearbox bearings were last replaced. I suspect (from what I've read on the net) that having milky trans. oil after purchasing and again on the 3rd change was probably a catalyst of wearing bearings. It still has what appears to be the original speedo cable boot, all crazied on the outer surface. I've got a new one to put back on and I'll make damn sure I seal it up with RTV on the top surface. But I digress.
Unless your gearbox has never been maintained I doubt the slipping problem is from the lack of a front circlip on the output shaft, as I said before, my one has no circlip and is good after 100K miles, only got noisy/ grindy.
P.S. Because of this I haven't gone to the length of installing a front circlip. Might be a case of last laugh - there are much more experienced crew out there!
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Unless your gearbox has never been maintained I doubt the slipping problem is from the lack of a front circlip on the output shaft, as I said before, my one has no circlip and is good after 100K miles, only got noisy/ grindy.
I had the transmission rebuilt by the same mechanic about a year and 3k miles ago, the bearing had been replaced at that time. Another symptom I had was a grinding noise, so it could be the circlip. Beats me, honestly... that's why it's at the specialists (much to my wallet's dismay).
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I'm happy to report my R65 is safe and sound in my garage, and running better than it has since last winter!
The transmission was sent out to a specialist in Cali, I missed the shop name but they specialize in transmissions and knew exactly what the problem was. There was some machining done to a part to bring it to a later factory spec.. all I really care about is that it goes and the only noise is the normal music.
Next up: new front brake light switch, new seat, new mufflers.. and hopefully a very snazzy and distinct new look.
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Good to hear you finally got the transmission back and the bike is ready to ride again !!!!! 8-)