The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Warbucks on October 17, 2015, 05:31:58 PM
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I've recently acquired a 1985 R65 and I'm currently trying to get it roadworthy for registration. It's been in my Father's garage and has not been started for about 10 years.
I'm trying to troubleshoot three electrical faults;
1. The turn indicators illuminate but do not flash. I can hear the flasher unit (under the fuel tank) make a single click when the indicators are switched on at the handle bars.
2. The horn is not working at all.
3. The headlight works, but the parking light does not come on in the rear light assembly.
I'm not certain if the brake light is being activated from the front brake and cannot test it yet. The master cylinder has been replaced but I have not filled the reservoir with fluid yet. The unit is sealed. Therefore if I pull the lever, the master cylinder will not return at this point until I install the other brake components and bleed the system.
All other aspects of the electrical system seem to be working as they should. Both fuses are intact.
Any help will be very much appreciated.
Regards,
Warbucks
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on the assumption that everything was working when it was parked you will probably find that a "break/make" cycle on every electrical connector and a "remove, squirt with contact cleaner and replace" cycle on every bulb will probably get it all working.
The horn you dismount and drop onto a hard surface a time or 10, if that doesn't cure it - buy a new one.
While you are there, give all the handlebar switches a shot of contact cleaner too - followed by a shot of CRC or WD-40
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Check the fuses under the fuel tank, they are lousy excuses at best for a fuse .
Check for corrosion and bend the contacts together a bit to get a better hold of the fuses .
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Thank you lads! I'll get into that tomorrow. Just a quick question if I may Tony. I'm not familiar with the terminology "make/break" cycle. Does that mean disconnecting, cleaning and reconnecting all of the earth connections on the wiring harness?
Everything on the bike was working when it was parked in the garage. I'm assuming that 10 years of salt air is most likely the culprit. I've replaced basically everything that is rubber without opening the carburettors. I have a kit to do that when required.
I haven't tried to fire up the engine yet because its sitting on a hydraulic lift with the wheels off at the moment. Also, the tank has 10 year old leaded fuel in it. Somehow the key barrel on the fuel cap has been trashed, so I haven't been able unlock the tank to drain it out yet. I'm waiting on a new fuel cap and a barrel from BMW in Germany. $430.00 AU for those two items. They must be made of Stirling silver. LOL
I'm confident she'll go. The engine only has 38,000 kms on it. I know this to be true because I know the guy who used to own it. He purchased it brand new 30 years ago.
I'll let ewes know how I go with the electrics in a day or two.
Thanks again.
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Thank you lads! I'll get into that tomorrow. Just a quick question if I may Tony. I'm not familiar with the terminology "make/break" cycle. Does that mean disconnecting, cleaning and reconnecting all of the earth connections on the wiring harness?
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Exactly.
You will find with the big block connectors with the round male and female components that sometimes several make/breaks with contact cleaner and WD-40 will be necessary to dislodge the corrosion and get the electrons flowing again.
painstaking cleaning the electrics up was one of the most time consuming processes getting my R65 going after 20 years - like you I live in a salt air environment.
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Agreed. Contact cleaner is your friend. No electrical connection on the bike is above suspicion. If you see a connection clean it.
The connections under the tank are especially critical. Remove the relays and clean their sockets.
Where the handle bar switches are concerned, spraying through the visible holes is not adequate, unscrew the switches from the bars and flood the back side of the switches, operate them vigorously and spray them again. Compressed air is handy as an interim step.
My '78 bike has responded very well to this treatment. I installed a small digital voltmeter and could observe operating voltage rising by tenths of a volt per fix.
The result is faster starts, more power/smoother running and brighter lighting.
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I've drowned every connection on the wiring harness with CRC contact cleaner. That gave me low beam on the head light and a green neutral light. I hadn't noticed they were not working. After hitting the switches on the hand grips with CRC contact cleaner I could feel and hear grit in the contacts. More CRC and leaving them sit overnight made the switches feel like new.
I've yet to get the horn working. I'm planning to look at that tomorrow, but still no joy getting the indicators to flash.
Can I assume that the flasher relay has died? After all, it is the original relay and therefore at least 30 years old. If the relay is faulty, can anyone here suggest a suitable replacement. I was thinking that maybe a relay switch out of a Volkswagon might do the job as a temporary fix. I dread to think how much BMW will charge me for a new unit. Not only that, it'll be about 3 weeks before it gets here. I'm hoping to have the bike registered by then.
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G'day, Warbucks
To confirm the condition of your horn, remove it from the bike and connect the horn's terminals to a known-good battery. If it honks, you'll need to trace the wires to find the fault.
One horn wire is a ground wire. You might jumper the brown wire (earth on BMWs) terminal somewhere else on the chassis and hit the horn button. If it honks, you have a ground fault.
The horn button could still be the culprit so a continuity check would be helpful.
There's always the possibility that an insect, such as a wasp, has built a mud nest up in the horn and has rendered it inoperative.
Take you old flasher relay to the auto parts dealer. Match up the pins and their terminal numbers with a new relay. The relay is a common unit used on VWs and other vehicles. They are very economical. I wouldn't waste time nor money trying to source a new relay from a Beemer dealer.
After converting one of my R65s to smaller, LED turn signals, I spent $5.00 on a new relay that is designed for LED operations. Plug n' play.
You may also consider eliminating the old-school Euro ceramic and cheese string fuses. Newer 'blade' mini-fuses are easily tapped into the existing wires at the terminal box. BTW, toss the plastic box, too. Auto parts stores sell small, rubber, weatherproof fuse holders, too.
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Regarding the OEM fuses on the R65s...
Dump this:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520Electric%2FFuseBox.jpg&hash=dfbb9ea7ca838a15fde649f7cc4e8a318ab9004a) (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/montmil/media/BMW%20Electric/FuseBox.jpg.html)
Buy a couple these:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520Electric%2FNAPA784667.jpg&hash=0dfdf4af89b35b6289383f1a07dbe84133d50d7c) (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/montmil/media/BMW%20Electric/NAPA784667.jpg.html)
Splice in the new fuse holders and secure in place with a zip tie. Done.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520Electric%2FFusesTopView.jpg&hash=2d0b507a4e6eaf3f841e72a71e344b283a3a0f26) (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/montmil/media/BMW%20Electric/FusesTopView.jpg.html)
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If the relay is faulty, can anyone here suggest a suitable replacement. I was thinking that maybe a relay switch out of a Volkswagon might do the job as a temporary fix. I dread to think how much BMW will charge me for a new unit.
Do not buy a VW one,some of them have complex(read expensive) extra circuitry in them to detect failed bulbs etc. Unless the wiring harness to the 85 bikes is vastly different to previous models, just about any generic 3 pin flasher unit will work.
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Don't know what's available in other parts of North America, or other parts of the world, but I've found relays in ' blister packs ' at most chain type auto parts stores, for under $10USD .
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My factory Fuse holder was in perfect condition and it would still open up and lose connection.
Get rid of it like Monte says
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I now have flashing indicators. The fault was in the 30 year old relay switch. A new relay fixed it. I tried a few cheap flasher units. They all had the same pin configuration as the original, but they all blew the fuse. I eventually replaced the unit with a NARVA relay switch (part number 68236BL). Although it wasn't cheap, I'm not complaining about the price at all. I'm just glad that it's now fixed and I'm a step closer to getting the bike registered. BMW wanted $110.00 for it. They've gotta be kidding!
I've checked the horn situation and it appears that the wiring harness is not the problem. The multimeter read 6.8 volts without touching the horn switch. When I activated the switch, the multimeter read 12.3 volts. I checked the resistance on the horn and it's completely dead. I'm guessing that the contact points are corroded. Rather than pry the horn open and completely destroy it, I've actually drilled a small hole in the side of the horn between the positive and negative terminals. I then sprayed contact cleaner into the hole and gave the unit a good shake. I'll leave it soaking overnight and hit again tomorrow morning. If that works I'll plug the hole with silicon. Failing that, I'll buy a cheap new horn. I don't care what it sounds like because I don't intend to use it. It only needs to be working to pass the inspection for registration.
As for the fuse box, it's not really a problem at the moment. I always say, "If it ain't broke ya don't fix it". If it poses a problem down the track I'll address it then. Many thanks to all who gave me input on this post. I shall return to let you all know the outcome when I get the horn sorted out.
[smiley=bmw_smiley.gif] [smiley=beerchug.gif]
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You don't plan on using your horn :o
Most of us use our horn a lot.
I got rid of the original horn and put 2 Fiamm Highway blasters in place of it.
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You don't plan on using your horn :o
Most of us use our horn a lot.
I got rid of the original horn and put 2 Fiamm Highway blasters in place of it.
Ditto the twin Fiamm horns. All my Airheads and the Triumph 900 have dual horns that really wake up the rolling texters, tweeters and chicks applying makeup as they wobble down the road.
When the event occurs that changes your mind about horns on motorcycles, and that event will happen when you least expect it, go ahead and fab a new, fused and relayed horn circuit. Loud horns pull more power than the tiny OEM 22ga horn button wires are designed to handle. You do not want the magic smoke to escape.
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They stop most Dogs in there tracks also
Dear and squirrels not so much.
Definitely need to add a relay and a fuse
The factory relay sockets are cheap and there is space for 3 extra ones right were Monte has his inline fuses :D
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Plenty of room for the horn relay (#53) and the NAPA fuse holders. I have collected several used Airhead wiring harness over the years. I can usually find the correct relay socket in my stash.
That OEM voltage regulator is long gone, replaced with a solid-state unit that provides a higher and more consistent charge needed for the AGM battery.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520Electric%2FP7300001.jpg&hash=cb40a3a471cf927deea23c08ed007d99a70e9fde) (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/montmil/media/BMW%20Electric/P7300001.jpg.html)
MotorradElektric VR. Plug n' play.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520Electric%2FR65VoltReg03.jpg&hash=cdb19e6816c2287b49e2bf1824d762cb7975a694) (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/montmil/media/BMW%20Electric/R65VoltReg03.jpg.html)
Most horn relays, most, have a resistor inside the relay case to reduce arcing and wear on the relay's contacts. Once installed, the horn button wires (#85 & #86) are used to operate the relay contacts; not a heavy electrical load. #30 & #87 carry the higher amp juice to those Freeway Blasters.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520Electric%2FHornRelayGuide.jpg&hash=c85b22ddae3de4419d254fc612e358731865ac30) (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/montmil/media/BMW%20Electric/HornRelayGuide.jpg.html)
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Monte
Peripheral issue, what plugs into the blue "accessory" socket?
An inquiring mind wants to know......
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Monte
Peripheral issue, what plugs into the blue "accessory" socket?
An inquiring mind wants to know......
I have heard heated clothing. Not sure if the socket has key on/off power or if a line s always hot or...?
A rainy day VOM experiment.
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From what I can remember, the extra connector was for ' official ' vehicles, guess that means police .
The red wire is always hot, power to it all the time, regardless of key position, so if the cap on the connector is missing, you've got the potential for arcing and sparking, it's also not fused, so you will damage wiring if it gets a ground .
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From what I can remember, the extra connector was for ' official ' vehicles, guess that means police .
The red wire is always hot, power to it all the time, regardless of key position, so if the cap on the connector is missing, you've got the potential for arcing and sparking, it's also not fused, so you will damage wiring if it gets a ground .
I wondered....
I'm about to move the radio equipment from the R100 as it isn't going to be moving under its own power anytime soon. I will use the R65 "accessory" socket to power it, currently looking for a spot to mount it - at this stage the little storage area under the ducktail is the most likely candidate.
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I tried spraying the contact cleaner into the horn and I let it soak for the past few days. I've seen this trick work before, but unfortunately not this time. As a cheap quick fix I bought a new aftermarket horn for $14.00 AU at a local auto shop. I measured how loud it is with a db meter and it read 100db. Highland bagpipes measure at 85db so it's plenty loud. Problem fixed. All electrics are now working. Registration is immanent.
I cannot remember the last time I actually used the horn on any of the cars or bikes I've had; apart from the annual registration inspections. I've travelled from New Orleans to Toronto and I can understand why you guys might need to use the horn frequently.
It's not like that where I live. I usually ride around on country roads which are never busy at all, particularly when the road is gravel. It would be a different story if I went to Sydney, but that won't happen. I wouldn't go there if the fuel was free. The people in cars down there are crazy. Sydney traffic could be compared to any major city in the United States.
I may need to use the horn if the road is blocked by cattle in some parts but that's a rarity. As for dogs, you never see them on country roads. I guess they're there, but do not venture off the farms. They're mostly well trained working dogs out there, so they're a lot smarter than your average pet. The only major threat is Kangaroos. When a five foot Eastern Grey decides to bound across the road in front of you, I can guarantee you won't have time to use the horn.
Many thanks again for all of the input here. I have a few mods planned for this bike which I will address further down the track. My main goal at this point is to get the bike registered and ride it legally. I'm still waiting for the wheels (or should I say the tyres) and also my fuel tank.
With any luck she'll be on the road within two weeks.
[smiley=beerchug.gif]
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I never use my horn. Now I wonder if it still works.