The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: DeeSupertramp on September 12, 2015, 12:04:58 AM
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To make a long (very long) story short, I bought a 1984 R65 from a guy in Queensland and had the bike shipped to Melbourne. I got a Certificate of roadworthiness and on the certificate the VIN/Chassis number is 7 digits long (only numbers).
When I called vicroads to get it registered, they told me they could not give me an appointment because of the VIN number and I needed to call the police.
I called the guy who sold me the bike and he told me that the VIN number of 7 digits is a non-sense and should be 17 digits.
Bottom line is that I have this bike sitting in the backyard for 10 months now and I can't do nothing without it until I know what is the real VIN number for this bike.
Anyone has knowledge of the VIN number for the1984 model?
Thanks for your help, I appreciate.
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It hasn't got a 17 digit VIN number, I think that is a US thing. It should end in R65, so you need to put that in too, giving you 10 digits. VIN numbers came here in the mid '90's, anything before that a frame or chassis number is ok. In a government money making scam, if your rego lapses and it need a re rego, then it gets a 17 digit VIN tag riveted on. I just use the frame number, ending in R65, and that's good enough here.
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Dees that sucks she's been sitting there for 10 months without you being able to enjoy the ride, sorry to hear that.
I would ask if they've got a motorbike re-register guy/gal somewhere and talk to them, or go to the AA (not alcoholics anon.) and ask the same thing, you should keep at it though. You may end up with a VIN number plate, hopefully they make m/c plates. Can you transfer the QLD plates if the previous owner still has them?
I'm in NZ and they just use the frame number. The first time I had to warrant it the guy said it's supposed to have a 17 digit number too, but he just used the frame no. But that was for a warrant of fitness though (every 6 months here), thankfully she's still got the original no. plate.
Once you're out on the road you'll be glad you pushed on with it!
Good luck.
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Yes, it is my first bike ever and I'm not familiar at all with this VIN/Chassis number thing. What is even more frustrating is that Vicroads did not want to tell me what is wrong with the VIN number, just to call the police. And the police did not what to do with this and they told me to ask Vicroads. Quite an unuseful loop!
The bike was not registered in QLD at the time of purchase, it was years ago. I'm also originally from Montreal, so I'm not familiar with the oz rego system as well.
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Great choice for a first bike!
What I was saying, go to registration outlet and ask for a motorbike registration specialist.
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Thanks for the advice. I'll try to find one who can help me.
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Dee,
Do you have a plate that looks a little like the one in the photo I've attached?
BMWs of our antiquity do not have VIN numbers - they have a frame number and an engine number. All you need to register your bike anywhere in Australia is the approval number (and that is only so that the person doing the roadworthy/safety certificate knows that the machine complies with the ADRs relevant at the time of original sale - after that Frame and engine number are all you need.
When the registration office droid asks you for the VIN your answer is "it doesn't have one, nor is it required to have one as its date of manufacture is prior to the introduction of VIN numbers for motorcycles".
If the droid gives you further trouble the next thing you say is "supervisor please"
BTW, you will see that my R65 is also a 1984 model. and the plate in the photo, the frame number on the steering head and the engine number are all it took to register - although like you I was asked for a VIN, but my answer was "it is too bloody old to have one".
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If you run up against a wall with your registration issue, I don't know if you have a BMW customer service number in AU, but here in the US they helped me out with registration problems when I tried to get my '81 R65 registered in Arizona in 1994 .
North American version bikes had a foil sticker on the frame under the right cylinder, with the full 17 character VIN on it, after 10 years or so, they usually became unreadable .
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Hi Tony,
Thanks for your message. Yes! I have the exact same plate and the 7 digits that appear below the "R" on the right side, is the number that is showing as my VIN/Chassis number on my Certificate of roadworthiness and which has caused me trouble so far with Vicroads.
Would that be incorrect?
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Also, looks like my saga is not just over yet. When I was doing my research, I saw the range of Engine numbers per year of production of R65.
As per the file attached, could it be that my bike is a 1979 and not a 1984 as I was told and as it appears on roadworthiness certificate?
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According to the internet, that 7-digit number does correlate to a 3/79 production date.
Is there a matching number near the oil fill hole on the engine?
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Hi nhmaf,
I've attached the number near the oil filler, but it looks like it is a different number. It looks like 6311288
Should they be the same?
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If I have my history correct, the mere fact that the engine number is stamped adjacent to the oil filler meas a pre-1981 engine.
Therefore it is looking more and more likely that you have a 1979 R65.
The roadworthy inspector really did a great job didn't he to miss the clearly stated manufacture date on the data plate.
Anyway, my earlier comments hold true, just get the inspector to amend their report - at no cost to you - to reflect the correct year/model.
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At least for North American bikes, the 7 character is stamped into the engine case at the oil filler hole .
I've got the 9th bike off of the assembly line for the '81 model year and that is where it is, and also the other 2 R65's I have .
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My 81 R65 also has the VIN stamped on the right side frame neck gusset. You might try looking there.
I don't want to relive my nightmare about getting my R65 re-registered here in CA. The biggest lesson I learned is once your title is cleared, never let the registration expire. File a non-op form if the bike will be out of service.
I was told the 7 digit VIN was not valid any longer when the CA DMV updated their computer system sometime in the early 2000's. The matching 7 digit VIN numbers that were clearly stamped on the gusset and engine case are now the chassis number according the brainiacs at the DMV. Part of my complication was the factory sticker on the lower right frame rail was destroyed by the powder coater. They reassigned a new 17 digit VIN maintaining the original as the last 7. I don't have words that can explain the fiasco I went through with the CA DMV. Our tax dollars at work.
I'm getting cranky just thinking about this again ...
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I was told the 7 digit VIN was not valid any longer when the CA DMV updated their computer system sometime in the early 2000's. The matching 7 digit VIN numbers that were clearly stamped on the gusset and engine case are now the chassis number according the brainiacs at the DMV. ...
Don't want to add to your pain Mike but the rest of the world thinks it is a frame number too.
Your DMV's mistake was ab-initio in taking the frame number to be a VIN number, which it never was.
On the little alloy data plate on my bike and Dee's, the 7 digit number muist match the frame number so that any Gummit Idjit examining the bike can verify that the frame they are looking at was the one issued an import permit and that, at least once upon a time ( the start of a Gummnit fairy story) the rest of the machine complied with whatever specific "design rules" were required (in the case of BMW that meant that the optional in most other countries rear mudflap was fitted, that the headlight could be turned off independent of ignition (at that time the exact opposite of what was required in the US), that there were asbestos products present (I don't think there ever where on BMs anyway) and that the headlight had a "left dip".
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Typo - NO Asbestos present!
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Your DMV's mistake was ab-initio in taking the frame number to be a VIN number, which it never was.
Tony,
The problems were numerous. Since my registration expired, and my EPA frame sticker was missing, and the 7-digit VIN number on the pink slip, bill of sale, Insurance card, expired registration, engine, and gusset returned an alarm and error code (since it didn't meet the 17 digit dialogue box on their computer input screen) in their new system they tried to grade the bike as a recovery vehicle. It's a long ridiculous story that required 3 different DMV inspections - subsequently the 3 different DMV inspectors had 3 different opinions and rulings. Fast forward 4 weeks after my last inspection a Policeman friend of mine told me to take the bike to a CHP Inspection Station with all the paperwork. The CHP inspector knew what he was looking at and looking for - declared and cleared the entire process.
I'm not making this up. Keep your registration current. Didn't intend to hi-jack the thread.
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Put some pics up of the 84/79 Beemer......... got any other signs of a 79, like a round M/C?
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I've attached a few photos. Not sure what differentiate a 1979 of a 1984 in terms of design.
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Not sure what differentiate a 1979 of a 1984 in terms of design.
I believe the round M/C and flat top carbs are 79/80 specific. Looks like you have 1979, just like the tag say's
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The four things that tell me you have a 1979 are the built date, round front master cylinder, seat tail piece and the final drive housing. All these were used through 1980 maybe even 1981. I know on 1982 and on we're not the same. The 17 digit vin started here in the states in 1981.
Don
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The '81 model year bikes had the rectangular master cylinder reservoir, different tail piece and ribbed final drive case .
Also, don't leave your fuel tap on, in the pictures, it's in the reserve position .
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Also interesting is the absence of an LED in the Tacho which indicates a later replacement.
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As the engine number doesn't match the frame number, that also indicates a likely replacement. The engine number indicates an 11/1980 production date (1981 model year), so I think it could be that somewhere in the bike's history, it could have had an engine and tacho transplant with the original 3/1979 production frame.
Definitely not a 1984 model, anyhow, though many, many parts are swappable/interchangeable.
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I don't believe the 81-84 model engines had clam shell intake covers.
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Thanks all for your help. Maybe the fact that it is a 1979 and tried to register it as a 1984 was part of the issue I had. I will try to call back Vicroads and sort this out. Hopefully it will be a positive outcome.
Bob_roller: sorry, as I mentioned this is my first bike and I'm not knowledgeable, what is the issue with the fuel tap and what is the reserve position? All I know is that I have not been able to open it, it just turn 360 degrees without popping so I can't put fuel. Not sure what I'm doing wrong and my girlfriend is taking a piss at me!! :)
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For the fuel tap horizontal forward or backwards is off, vertically down is on and vertically up is reserve (reserve capacity 2 litres). Bob will have mentioned it because to prevent possible flooding you should never park up with the fuel tap in the on or reserve position.
There is a long list of detail differences between the early 79-80 models and the later 81 -84 models which make the year of manufacture easy to determine and as has been said yours has all of the 79 features in the pictures.
Some of the more visually obvious ones are:
(79 feature listed first)
Seat cover ribbed vs plain
Tail piece lifts with the seat or is fixed
Clam shell vs flat air filter housing
Enricher lever mounted on the airfilter housing vs handle bars
Flatop vs dome top Bings
Plain vs ribbed final drive housing
Round vs rectangular brake fluid reservoir
Occasionally you see 1980 models with a partial mix of these features but a 79 model should be quite distinctly in the early camp and as far as I know 81 and later models will be distinctly in the later camp.
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Bob_roller: sorry, as I mentioned this is my first bike and I'm not knowledgeable, what is the issue with the fuel tap and what is the reserve position? All I know is that I have not been able to open it, it just turn 360 degrees without popping so I can't put fuel. Not sure what I'm doing wrong and my girlfriend is taking a piss at me!! :)[/quote]
Fuel tap or fuel valve on the bottom LH side of tank. When lever is pointed up to tank this is reserve. Pointed down is on, pointed to either side is fuel off. You should fill a slight dent in each position when valve is rotated. The fuel tap has nothing to do with fuel being put in the tank. Sound like your for cap is Locked or has been tightened to much and the ratchet will not grab any more to get the cap off. These cap just need to be sung. The is a method for drilling a hole in the cap to put a screw in to make all the parts turn at the same time. Doing a search hear should bring this up or some will post the link. Will look when I have some more time.
Don
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If the fuel tap is left on and the carb float needles don't seat very well , you can drain the fuel tank into the cylinders and oil sump, if given enough time .
A few members here have had this happen .
Always turn the fuel tap off and avoid letting the bike sit on the side stand for extended periods of time .
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I'm not making this up. Keep your registration current. Didn't intend to hi-jack the thread.
Mike I didn't think for an instant that you were. i have a very simple policy when dealing with Gummnit Idjits (incorrectly known as "public servants" in some misguided jurisdictions), that policy is :- I'm right, you are wrong and sooner or later you are going to do what I tell you to do, would you prefer to do that with or without a metaphorical beating"?
Closely followed (if necessary) by my favourite tactic of insulting them until they apologize.
Unsurprisingly, as I get older and the number of Gummnit Idjits I have been forced to deal with grows, I have less and less trouble with them.
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http://bmwmotorcycletech.info
Here is the link to Snoebums web site. Go all the way down and click on tech articles, then one of the first ones I about stuck fuel caps.
Don
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Also interesting is the absence of an LED in the Tacho which indicates a later replacement.
I don't think my speedo is calibrated to 180 either.......hmmmmmmmm
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Thanks for the advice, I absolutely did not know that about the fuel tap. I'm afraid it has been like this....for quite a while now.
It looks like it could be a Frankenstein R65, taking a bit of different year model! Wish I did my homework before buying, but was too excited! :)
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Thanks for the advice, I absolutely did not know that about the fuel tap. I'm afraid it has been like this....for quite a while now.
It looks like it could be a Frankenstein R65, taking a bit of different year model! Wish I did my homework before buying, but was too excited! :)
Don't worry about it is my advice. There are very, very few pristine, all original r65s on the planet, the beauty of long model runs such as the old airheads is that parts remain available.
Let's get your ride registered and then let's worry about the fine details. You buy an old airhead as a hobby and they can be a very rewarding one.
So lets deal with the Gummnit Idjits that are your current problem and move on from there.
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Wise council from 'ol Tony. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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I don't think my speedo is calibrated to 180 either.......hmmmmmmmm
KP/H - I wish I had a kph speedo, when I went looking for one all I could fund was a Reagan era 80mph speedo with the over-sized 55mph marking. I am gettign a bit sick of doing constant mental mathematics to calculate time and distance, it interferes with listening to 70s rock on Pandora.
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Dee have you got an outcome yet?