The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2

Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: tc80211 on March 17, 2015, 06:38:33 PM

Title: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on March 17, 2015, 06:38:33 PM
'83 R65
Haven't posted in a while because bike was perfect!! Then I did not ride her for a month and now the clutch is frozen... pulling lever, no wheel roll at all in gear.
i tried snowbums 2 methods for "unfreezing" the clutch and unfortunately did not work...

Where do I go from here? I never took a clutch flywheel assembly apart before... any tips? hints? things to look at for? things not to do?
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: Tony Smith on March 17, 2015, 11:57:35 PM
Firstly.

Calm yourself, you are VERY unlikely to need to take anything apart.
 
Below I set out my method for unsticking BMW clutches, trust me I have been doing this for 37 years (commencing 1978 when I caught a R100RS sized dose of incurable Airhead disease).
 
All Airhead clutches are apt to get a bit stuck if the machine has not been ridden for a while, especially if the weather was wet when the machine was last ridden.
 
My (soon to be patented) method is:-

Put bike in neutral and start engine, warm up until engine at normal operating temperature.

Wheel bike to top of a small slope (the driveway up our gutter is about 5 inches fall in 10 inches distance and is more than sufficient for this) alternatively have an assistant stand behind the bike, ready to push.

Paddle foot the bike to the top of the slope with the engine running and as soon as it starts down the slope, bang it into first gear and ride off with the clutch leaver pulled in, change gears gently remembering that there is no disengagement and, if possible, give it a bit of welly. I have never had a clutch take more than a few hundred metres to come free.
 
Alternatively, have companion push you down the street with the engine running, as soon as walking pace is achieved, select 1st gear and accelerate away - proceed as in example above until clutch frees itself.

Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: montmil on March 18, 2015, 09:47:14 AM
 [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Yeah. What Tony says.

And when was the last time you did a proper clutch spline clean n' lube?
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on March 18, 2015, 11:35:05 AM
I have tried a version of that, since in FL not really any hills... I start in neutral, get it warmed up. Then have someone push me, I hold in clutch lever and bang it into first... it goes into first but lever being pulled in has zero affect. After trying this 10 times I gave up.

It only sat for a month and yes the last ride was a wet one. I'm definitely worried at this point.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on March 18, 2015, 12:03:36 PM
Quote
[smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Yeah. What Tony says.

And when was the last time you did a proper clutch spline clean n' lube?

I did a spine lube when i finished building the bike late 2014.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: Barry on March 18, 2015, 04:02:29 PM
Quote
I hold in clutch lever and bang it into first... it goes into first but lever being pulled in has zero affect. After trying this 10 times I gave up.


Have you tried getting up to 5th gear which will put the most torque on your clutch.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: k_enn on March 18, 2015, 04:33:46 PM
A method I have used is to have the bike running in neutral, at idle or just a little above idle.  Grab the front brake strongly so the bike won't move, or better yet put front wheel up against an immovable object like a wall.  Pull in the clutch lever.  With the lever in and the engine at idle, shift down into first.  Most likely you will free the clutch.  If not, you will probably just stall the bike.  

k_enn
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on March 18, 2015, 06:58:24 PM
Quote
A method I have used is to have the bike running in neutral, at idle or just a little above idle.  Grab the front brake strongly so the bike won't move, or better yet put front wheel up against an immovable object like a wall.  Pull in the clutch lever.  With the lever in and the engine at idle, shift down into first.  Most likely you will free the clutch.  If not, you will probably just stall the bike.  

k_enn

Thanks Ken, That is what I initially have tried multiple times and the bike just stalls.

I'm fairly worried I need to take it all apart.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: Luca on March 20, 2015, 04:40:27 PM
One other thing I could think of would be to fiddle with the adjustments.  Screw in the adjuster on the clutch arm (back of the transmission) as far in as you can, then take up as much cable slack as you can at the lever.

My thought is that maybe the extra relief pressure will help things separate when you re-try some clutch freeing techniques.  Worth a shot before digging in deeper.

p.s  if it works, make sure to re-adjust the clutch before you go out riding!
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: minitoo on March 20, 2015, 08:26:27 PM
This stuck clutch thing recently happened with my old SAAB 99 after parked for a couple years.  The way I got it going was to first warm the engine up so it was running smoothly then shut it off.  With the car facing down the road I hit the starter with the car in first gear and the starter was able to move the car forward enough for the engine to fire up and down the road I went.  I then got off and on the throttle really hard like I was trying to pop a wheelie or something (yeah, right!).  After about four or five times of this foolishness, a bang and I was free and working fine.  Been working fine since.  Worth a shot and can't hurt anything if you've room in front of you.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: SoloLobo on March 21, 2015, 09:46:16 AM
On really stuck bikes I have done what minitoo says... get the engine warm first and then find a long slope.  Get the bike rolling down hill with the clutch level pulled fully in.

Drop the bike into gear (2nd) and while holding the clutch lever to the bars rev the engine from throttle on up quickly and continuously several times

That's done the job for me... although I did have one bike that had to ride almost all of the way around my (long) block until it freed
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on March 21, 2015, 07:53:48 PM
thanks guys. will try that method next!!
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on March 25, 2015, 07:10:34 PM
ok... so i did the methods above... all... the one in which i put the front tire against a wall and hold the clutch lever in and then drop into 1st.... that started smoking something so i stopped right away...

Guess this thread will turn into questions re taking clutch and flywheel off and replacing. yippee.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: SoloLobo on March 25, 2015, 09:52:15 PM
Riding it around while holding the clutch level all the way in and reving the bike up didn't work?

The process is to rev sharply, close the throttle and repeat that process until the clutch breaks free... all the while holding the lever in.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: Tony Smith on March 25, 2015, 09:53:14 PM
Quote
Guess this thread will turn into questions re taking clutch and flywheel off and replacing. yippee.

Very sorry to hear this - it is the first time ever that going for a ride with the clutch lever pulled in has failed to release the clutch - the furthest I have ever had to do that was about a half mile.
 
I have seen an excellent step by step on replacing a clutch on a R100/7 - the principle is the same and I will try to find it for you. Also Chris Harris "Affordable Beemer Service" on Youtube has useful stuff.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: Luca on March 26, 2015, 06:12:13 AM
Sure seems like the clutch was slipping and started to burn, which means it's moving.  If it still wont change gears maybe it's hung up on the transmission input shaft.

Changing the clutch isn't too bad of a job, especially if you can do it indoors on a carpeted floor  ;)
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on March 26, 2015, 02:31:56 PM
Quote
Sure seems like the clutch was slipping and started to burn, which means it's moving.  If it still wont change gears maybe it's hung up on the transmission input shaft.

Changing the clutch isn't too bad of a job, especially if you can do it indoors on a carpeted floor  ;)

My days of indoor builds are over for now, to the garage I go. But that is OK. I am going to hopefully tear into it in next week or so. Will keep all posted on progress. Might do new subframe and seat in process. Oh and new springs, the Boges (however you spell it) are just the worst.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: Ed Miller on March 26, 2015, 05:06:43 PM
When I bought my '58 Chevy the clutch was frozen up.  It lacked the cover on the bottom (still does, actually) and we freed it up with my dad in the cab, foot on the clutch, whilst I was under the truck poking a screwdriver in between the clutch disk and flywheel.

I have never looked through our bike's inspection hole toward the rear; is it possible to see and reach the clutch disk from that hole? The method did not require enough force to damage either clutch disk, flywheel, or screw driver.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on March 27, 2015, 08:34:18 AM
Quote
When I bought my '58 Chevy the clutch was frozen up.  It lacked the cover on the bottom (still does, actually) and we freed it up with my dad in the cab, foot on the clutch, whilst I was under the truck poking a screwdriver in between the clutch disk and flywheel.

I have never looked through our bike's inspection hole toward the rear; is it possible to see and reach the clutch disk from that hole? The method did not require enough force to damage either clutch disk, flywheel, or screw driver.

I never thought to even check! I will the moment I get home tonight. Thanks Ed!
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: donbmw on March 27, 2015, 10:47:37 AM
You are not going to get to the clutch with out removing the transmission.

Don
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: Ed Miller on March 27, 2015, 01:11:02 PM
Quote
You are not going to get to the clutch with out removing the transmission.

Don

Too far back from the timing hole?  Oh well, he's probably due for a spline lube anyway.  
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: k_enn on April 12, 2015, 06:09:11 PM
As expected with the bike sitting in an unheated garage through 2 winters, I found the clutch to be frozen when I went to start the bike today.  Having learned from earlier years, I put the bike up for the winter in neutral, so no issue with the clutch or gears getting the engine started.  Walked i over to a wall, and with the clutch lever pulled in while the front tire was braced against the wall and just a little above idle (aroune 1500 - 2000 rpm) I dropped it into first gear.  With a little jolt, it broke free.  

Seems to be part of the annual spring start-up for me.

k_enn
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on April 13, 2015, 07:54:30 AM
Quote
As expected with the bike sitting in an unheated garage through 2 winters, I found the clutch to be frozen when I went to start the bike today.  Having learned from earlier years, I put the bike up for the winter in neutral, so no issue with the clutch or gears getting the engine started.  Walked i over to a wall, and with the clutch lever pulled in while the front tire was braced against the wall and just a little above idle (aroune 1500 - 2000 rpm) I dropped it into first gear.  With a little jolt, it broke free.  

Seems to be part of the annual spring start-up for me.

k_enn

I wish I had your luck K_enn... i did the wall-brace and it never unfroze... taking apart this week finally... fingers crossed for nothing major and just a clutch/pressure plate replace.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: Mike V on April 13, 2015, 08:58:48 AM
tc,

Try this.  Snowbum explains efforts to release a stuck clutch. Scroll down towards the end of the page after executing the link.

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/clutch.htm

Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: Bob_Roller on April 13, 2015, 10:23:58 AM
I'm surprised that I didn't have this happen to me when I lived in Chicago, for years the last thing I would do, was to wash the bike, then put it in the back of the garage until April or so .

After 10 years of doing this, I changed my routine, I would take the bike out and put about 10 miles on it after washing it .

I know I caused an early demise of the brake master cylinder because of this, didn't get 10 years until it started leaking  .
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on April 13, 2015, 01:04:03 PM
Quote
tc,

Try this.  Snowbum explains efforts to release a stuck clutch. Scroll down towards the end of the page after executing the link.

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/clutch.htm


Mike, really appreciate it. Snowbum's site was the first place I looked for a solution and tried all his methods...

What confuses me the most is this.
If the bike is turned off completely. I can put in 1st gear(or any gear) pull in the clutch lever and the bike will roll freely. When I let the lever out, it no longer rolls, which is working as expected.
It is not until the engine is on that pulling the clutch lever no longer does anything. It is so baffling frustrating, missing some prime riding weather down here.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: donbmw on April 13, 2015, 01:18:28 PM
Quote
Quote
tc,

Try this.  Snowbum explains efforts to release a stuck clutch. Scroll down towards the end of the page after executing the link.

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/clutch.htm


Mike, really appreciate it. Snowbum's site was the first place I looked for a solution and tried all his methods...

What confuses me the most is this.
If the bike is turned off completely. I can put in 1st gear(or any gear) pull in the clutch lever and the bike will roll freely. When I let the lever out, it no longer rolls, which is working as expected.
It is not until the engine is on that pulling the clutch lever no longer does anything. It is so baffling frustrating, missing some prime riding weather down here.

Your description almost sounds like the through out bearing going bad and the clutch pushrod welding to the pressure plate. My R90 was like that when this happen to me.

Don
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: montmil on April 13, 2015, 03:50:50 PM
Time to pull the gear box and see what's up.
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on April 15, 2015, 10:49:07 AM
Anyone know where i can buy the centering arbor tool?? I found just one from a site that no longer appears to be in business... or maybe how i can make one (without welding as i dont have a welder)>???
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: donbmw on April 15, 2015, 12:48:05 PM
http://www.cycleworks.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=29_33_52

Here is one

Don
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on April 18, 2015, 05:00:59 PM
FIXED!

The Clutch pressure plate was severely damaged! I couldn't believe more things didn't break. So replaced the pressure plate and she is like a new bike! Only took 6 hours and a few beers.

I added a photo of one of the tabs that broke off.

Now I can get back to the fun stuff... RIDING!
Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: Ed Miller on April 20, 2015, 03:42:19 PM
Cool.  Did you already have a new pressure plate on hand?

Title: Re: Frozen clutch, tried diff't "pop" methods, next...
Post by: tc80211 on April 20, 2015, 07:22:17 PM
Quote
Cool.  Did you already have a new pressure plate on hand?


I read the article in the how to section of this forum and it made me think that it was most likely the pressure plate that failed... so i rolled the doce and ordered before ever taking anything apart.. gamble paid off and im riding again.