The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Luke D. on May 22, 2014, 08:49:37 AM
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Good day all, I took a spin on Tuesday because it was finally nice out, got home put the bike in the garage and went to bed. Next day I came out and my bike had peed on the floor. :( Looked to see where she was leaking and noticed it was coming from the right (if sitting on) carb. It was on the inside(next to engine) and on the bottom. Any ideas on where this may be coming from? Could oil be getting in the carbs? I have not noticed any blue smoke (burning oil) but I dont know where the oil could be coming from?
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If it's a small spot of oil it could be oil vapor condensate from the breather tubes. I noticed that mine would weep a bit from around the carb elbows.
I don't think mine ever dripped on the floor... but if your oil is filled up to the max line on the dipstick it will spit more oil into the intake. I've since ditched the plumbing into the carb elbows and just let the breather stop at the airbox. I'd rather have oil gum up in the airbox than in the carb passages. My air filter has not been fouled with oil as some might caution.
No more smoke at startup, either, although I could only notice it at night when the smoke got in the headlight beam.
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I have found that my 82 R65LS will sometimes leave a drop or two of oil under where the crankcase breather tubes plug into the carb after I have been running it long/fairly hard - a few extra drops of oil get pumped up through the crankcase breather, run down the tubes out the airbox, and end up at those hose ends that plug onto the vacuum ports at the bottom of the carbs. A drip is exacerbated by putting the bike on its sidestand instead of the centerstand immediately after running it for a while.
Also, using the centerstand avoids the smoking on startup thing the next morning as oil drains back into the sump, instead of down past piston rings into the low side cylinder when on the sidestand.
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To prevent oil leaking from the elbows they say you should position the hose clamp so that the screw is at the top instead of the bottom. Personally I'd like to know if that much oil wass coming out the breather so I leave them at the bottom. I get a little misting but no drips.
Any issues will be worse in cold weather as the object is to have the oil vapour burn in the combustion chamber. There are only going to be drips or blockages in the carbs if it condenses out before it gets there.
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Good advice and counsel given, but just to satisfy my curiosity... have you noticed any oil misting that may be coming from forward of the right-hand carburetor?
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Thank you all for the help. I have not been able to find the culperit. Montmil, there does not seem to be anything in front of the right carb. It looks like the oil seeps out of the oil line that goes under the carb where it goes from metal to some sort of black fabric.
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That is not an oil line, it is and air pipe and part of the pulse air emission system. It lets filtered air from the airbox into the exhaust port when there is low vacuum at the carbs (when you whack the throttle open) so that excess crap in the exhaust is burnt off.
There shouldn't be an easy way for oil to get into that system since it picks up air before the breather tubes dump oil vapor into the intake system.
Are you sure it's oil that's on the floor? If indeed the air pipe is the source of the leak the only thing I could suspect (and it's a stretch) is that condensation is picking up soot from the air pipe (if that's possible) and then dripping out. If you have a leak in the air system you might notice some excessive popping while engine braking too.
Another culprit would be that your carb has overflowed and spilled gasoline through the overflow tube, or it has a leaky bowl gasket and is weeping gas on the bowl which is gumming up into varnish.
P.S. For a couple bucks you can remove the emissions system. Won't hurt the bike one bit, and some members have still passed emissions tests with the system removed.
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Can you post a pic of what you are seeing?
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sorry it took so long but here are some pics of the problem area.
Montmil, I have not noticed any oil misting in front of the carb, but I think my photos will help more than I can explain.
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From your pictures, I would say that you have the typical crankcase breather oil seepage .
The crankcase breather vents into the air horns and the mist / vapor gets drawn into the carb then into the combustion chamber .
It seeps out of the cabs, onto the floor, or on your boot !!!! ;D
May want to try running the oil at the mid level on the dipstick and see if it helps at all .
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Thanks Bob_Roller for your input. I have noticed that it only seems to "weep" after a long ride ( freeway or just a fun jont). And usually only on hotter days. Thank you for help. Is there a way to make it stop? Putting a hose upwards(relocating)it to a higher elevation?
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Bob, are the crank case breather vents those hole just above the jug at about 11 o' clock?
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Those holes are just the drain ports for the starter cavity. The Crankcase breather is under the starter cover.
Having oil on the carbs usually happens to me when I ride the bike at sustained high speeds; But just enough to coat the underside of the carbs in oil, not a puddle on the ground.
The most simplest thing you can do right now is to check your oil level. Just put it midway between minimum and maximum.
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I wish my bike was that clean....
rev light
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Is there a way to make it stop? Putting a hose upwards(relocating)it to a higher elevation?
re-read my first post ;)
Removing the big plastic T in the airbox and the plumbing that comes after it will greatly reduce the oil dripping into the carb. The oil vapor doesn't go away, but it isn't set up to condensate directly at the carbs. Several thousand miles with the breather dumping straight to the airbox and I haven't fouled my air filter. My bike sees 75mph+ pretty regularly.
A little side note: When routing breather tubes you don't want the plumbing to make a U shape. Oil will collect in the bottom of the U and then the crankcase pressure really starts spewing the stuff!
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I've been following this thread. As May 28th was National Hamburger Day and I had a 'Greenwood Grocery' run planned, thought I'd try a small experiment...
I keep all my Airheads crankcase oil levels at the mid point between upper and add marks. Yesterday, I topped the '81 R65's sump to the full mark, checked tire pressures in my tubeless Spitfires, and launched on a 70+ mile burger run.
In all the years and miles where I've maintained the mid point oil level, I've never had any oil collect and drip off a Bing. I also long ago dumped that nasty Air Injection plumbing. That was BMW's answer to a California CARB emissions mandate and all North American imports got it. Pitiful, it was.
After a tasty lunch among BMW mavens, I took a return route that provided plenty of room for some 80-90 mph runs. That little cafe fairing proved its worth as I tucked in and wound out. Was way beyond the buzzy zone in the rev range...
Home. Parked. Wiped off the bugs and hit the patio for a couple adult beverages.
Next morning, checked and spotted some former oil vapor on the bottom of the rightside Bing. Just a little, but it was there. Will siphon out the excess oil and return the sump to its proper level.
YMMV
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Good day all. Hope everyone had a great 4th of July, thank you to all the veteran and currently active military personnel. Also Happy Late Canada day to our neighbors upstairs. So yesterday I had some free time to work on my bikes oil weepage problem. I removed what I needed to get at the innards of the air box to remove the plumbing. When I got to the innards I noticed that this was different than what I though. This is a picture of the air boxs (not mine but very similar). Am I supposed to take all of the hoses out? Am I also supposed to take the small hose that connects to a T on the outside of the air box and the connecting hose off? Thank you all for you previous help and help to come.
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You're gonna enjoy this, Luke.
Step-by-step instructions, a parts list and with color photos! You know we all love photos...
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-technical-articles/pulse-air/
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WOW!! Thank you very much montmil, I just read the link over and it looks easy enough that a caveman could do it. :) Or in this case me. ;D Just a question but arnt those pieces important? I kind of get the concept of the pulse air system but its still alittle over my head. Thank you again for your help. Have a great day.
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It was added to all US bikes to satisfy California (and probably later nationwide) emissions standards. Allows fresh air to be drawn into the exhaust when engine vacuum is low, like when you whack the throttle wide open. Some people here still get emissions tested and passed just fine without the pulse air system. It's ugly, blocks the right carb bowl from coming off, and is a potential source for leaks. Some speculate that it increases exhaust valve temperatures too.
The system won't help the bike run. Euro bikes never had any of the emissions plumbing. If you feel like spending the money you can get reconditioned european airboxes and starter covers from bmw2valve.com for a real sanitary look.
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Mandatory California 'Tree Hugger' law. BMW Motorrad added this junk to all US exports to avoid having to build Cali-Only motorcycles. With both my R65's, the very first thing I did when I brought 'em home was to dump the Political Plumbing.
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Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all, I was reading over this post and see I did not reply or say thank you for everyones help. Thank you all very much for your help with this issue. I just ordered the parts and since it is winter will tear into it as soon as the parts come. In the mean time I have to clean the carbs because I left gas in the tank for too long and now the bike will not stay running so I am assuming the bowls and jets (whole carb) needs to be cleaned. I will take some pictures when I take off the pulse air stuff for your enjoyment. :) Have a great day everyone, thanks again for the help.
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HNY back at ya, Luke.
Pop the float bowls and check 'em for water. Condensation can often afflict the carbs. With winter hitting you pretty hard, perhaps consider dumping all the fuel from the tank and maybe doing a water rise and dry. I did my '81 R65 not long ago and was surprised to find 'things' other than fuel. With only a single petcock, the right side of the R65's tank can harbor all sorts of unwanted "stuff".
BTW, it'll take a few days for the water to evap- or you could speed the process by placing the tank in a sunny spot... if you get those in MN.
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I drained my tank this winter and didn't find a drop of water just a few small bits of of the original red liner. And I hadn't done a tank drain in 2 years which is why I thought I ought to do it.
Maybe no surprise though as there is an avalanche effect which means you can find no water even though there is some in the fuel. Up to a point the dreaded ethanol content absorbs the water but once it exceeds the saturation level phase separation occurs and all of the water comes out. All is only going to be 3 or 4 teaspoons per gallon.
I'm not sure I buy the condensation theory as the mechanism of how water gets into the fuel at least inside the tank. I suspect there is some in there all the time through exposure to the atmosphere and the reason we see it in winter is simply that at summer temperatures 1 gallon of E10 will absorb 4 or 5 teaspoons of water while in the winter phase separation will occur with only 2 or 3 teaspoons. So in practice all that might need to happen for water to appear is a drop in temperature. No condensation took place but the process is analogous to condensation of water out of the air when the temperature falls.
I do get condensation of water into the fuel but not in the tank. I get it when the water vapour content in the breather gases condenses out inside the cold carbs. That's a direct result of cold winter oil temperatures.
Perhaps phase separation could also occur inside the carbs before it does in the tank given the very process of fuel evaporation may reduce the carb temperature below that of the fuel in the tank.