The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: bjamesw on July 04, 2014, 04:42:35 PM
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Sorry. This must be covered here ad nauseum. Search is useless here and Google is not much better with this site for some reason.
Does anyone with cast snowflakes change their own tires? First of all, tubeless or not? 1984 R65. Tires, new and old, specify "tubeless, mount tube with tube type rim". Is the snowflake from 1984 tubeless? There is no indication on the rim. I can't recall whether I mounted tubes last time or not. I have a new pair of michelin pilot activ fresh from UPS.
I might not have contemplated it but I recently discovered a technique posted at ADVrider.com describing installation of tires that is pretty slick.
You wrap the tire, or tire/tube, with that extremely strong and thin postal tape
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoQJ6DgQrkKR4pPgsPaFQKRfx9YcZFSZEkLeRjI2GJhMoIdeRE)
so that the beads are touching. Carefully place the rim on the floor so that it is stable and supported all around with something that will not mar it. Lube up the tape and rim with windex. Put one side of the bead as deep into the rim as possible. Stand on the tire and lightly jump on the bead as it rolls into place.
I've not done it on a motorcycle tire yet. I have done it on two Puch 17" x 3.50 tires that were horrifically difficult to get on previously. Just slid right on. I was dumbfounded. There are various vids on utube using straps and zip ties, but the strong packaging tape makes more sense to me. It's easily cut and removed after mounting and it's practically indestructable in this use if the rim is not rough and slipperier than straps when windex is used.
Anyone change their own? I'm set up to balance the tires, but I've never changed them myself.
Thanks.
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If you decide to go tubeless, you'll need the proper tubeless vale stem assemblies.
I installed a fresh pair of Bridgestone Spitfire S11 tires on my '81 R65 and run them tubeless. Without tubes, the tire install was not too bad. I notice the tubeless R65 tires hold air pressure where the tubed '83 R65 will weep a couple three pounds of pressure in a week's time
When the R100S needed new shoes on the spoked alloy rims, I toot my wheels, tubes and the fresh Bridgestone S11 rubber to a shop for mount n' balance.
The price is worth the blood offerings demanded on a DIY gig. Plus, the shop is on the hook for a damaged tube or a dinged Akront rim. Cheap insurance.
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I have a Harbor Freight changer and use a No-Mar mount/demount bar, Yellow Thing, and their lube. I used to mix up soapy water and I can honestly say that this lube from the No-Mar people makes the tire slide on 10 times easier.
I originally thought the bar was a bit pricey but after mounting 4 tires I believe it would be cheap at twice the price!! Here's a link to the mount/demount bar...
http://www.nomartirechanger.com/product_p/tc-mdbar-std.htm
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Anybody try the tape/ziptie/cinchstrap technique?
It worked so slick on the moped tire that I'm tempted to at least give it a go before investing in any tools that I will use once every three years at the most with all three of my bikes.
For tire lube? Hmm. Ultra slick and water soluble so that it is easily displaced/dissolved and does not create a hazard later on with slippage?
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F76.my%2FMalaysia%2Fky-jelly-personal-lubricant-water-soluble-greasy-oil-100g-mcarepharmacy-1406-06-MCarePharmacy%401.jpg&hash=68539ca4ec4bbcdd08cf255f9f68a7b2471ca641)
Why does this seem to make the best sense?
10pts to the first one who can pun the best response to slippage here. Please nothing about 'loving our bikes'. It's bad enough that I ride alone more often than not. Don't rub it in. $hit... bad puns are just unavoidable here.
I'm quite serious though. Best tire mounting lube that comes to mind and a generic version ought to be cheap cheap cheap.
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Does anyone with cast snowflakes change their own tires? First of all, tubeless or not?
Yep, sure do.
Until a few months ago I hadn't changed a motorcycle tyre in 30 odd years. Then the local motorcycle shops bunged on a $50 per tyre to fit tyres not bought here. Well hello, the reason nobody was buying tyres from them was that they were too bloody expensive to start with.
I have 3 tyre levers and two sets of heavy plastic rim protectors.
Taking the old tyres off i use the square end of a lever inserted into the bead and an adjustable spanner across the body of the lever - turn the lever 90 degrees to start the bead moving, work around the tyre and the bead will drop well before you get half way.
After that it's all plain sailing.
I use a soluble rubber grease I bought from a car supplier to ease mounting, although i must admit that when I fitted the Pirellis to the R65 they needed no lubrication and I very near got them on with hand and foot pressure only, I only needed one lever for the very last bit of bead, and they popped into place before i got much over 60psi when pumping them up.
One other bit O kit I have which was useful is a piece of flexible wire - at one end it has a piece of rod with a thread cut into it that fits the internal thread in the valve, the other end has a "T" handle for gentle pulling. Made getting the valve stems through the rim a piece of cake - particularly the front which is a tight fit for hands as big as mine.
In regards to the tube or tubeless debate I am firmly in the tubed camp. The reason is that if i ever have to fix a flat by the side of the road I *know* I can get a tyre off, patch a tube and put it back together without having to resort to "weird science' to get a tubeless tyre to seat. BMW say that the snowflakes are not suitable to run tubeless, but many do and the streets are not littered with their broken bodies after the tyres parted company with their wheels.
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Jesus, there really must be better universal symbols available for some of the above in the reply window. What the hell does a broken sheet of paper and an arrow have to do with a quote? I speak six languages fluently in addition to Klingon and it still left me stumped. Two quotation marks is not sufficiently clear? ...rant over....
In regards to the tube or tubeless debate I am firmly in the tubed camp. The reason is that if i ever have to fix a flat by the side of the road I *know* I can get a tyre off, patch a tube and put it back together without having to resort to "weird science' to get a tubeless tyre to seat
A little fresh gasoline and a match? You're a motorcycle rider for heaven's sake. Where's the sense of adventure?
...and the streets are not littered with their broken bodies after the tyres parted company with their wheels.
and that's a strangely qualified assurance. One mangled pile-of-body-parts reference directly attributable would be plenty for me.
But thanks.
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You wrap the tire, or tire/tube, with that extremely strong and thin postal tape
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imagesq=tbn:ANd9GcSoQJ6DgQrkKR4pPgsPaFQKRfx9Y...
so that the beads are touching. Carefully place the rim on the floor so that it is stable and supported all around with something that will not mar it.Lube up the tape and rim with windex.Put one side of the bead as deep into the rim as possible.Stand on the tire and lightly jump on the bead as it rolls into place.
That link doesn't work for me but however you go about mounting a tire "putting one side of the bead as deep into the rim as possible" is the No 1 thing that makes it easy. The tape trick wouldn't apply of course if a tube was being used as you only want one bead in initially.
Seating the bead aside I've never had a problem or needed tools to mount a tire. Getting them off again when the rubber has gone harder with age is a different story. Some means of holding the beads together so they easily dropped into the well would certainly help when removing a tire especially on the front where the well is very narrow.
I have a new pair on hand to mount before the winter and will need to get it done while we still have some sunshine to get them warmed up and supple.
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A little fresh gasoline and a match? You're a motorcycle rider for heaven's sake. Where's the sense of adventure?
Works as a last resort on big mudding tires and the like where the beads don't start close to the rim. An explosion inside the tire produces incredible amounts of pressure which I'll safely assume are well beyond what the tire or rim are made to handle. An exploded rim can seriously maim or kill. I'd be more worried about that than running a wheel tubeless.
Never too much trouble with seating beads with a tube as you always develop pressure. Usually when they won't seat it's from poor lubrication. I bought a gallon jug of Ru-Glyde years ago which should serve me for most of my life. Real tire lube works better than anything else.
and that's a strangely qualified assurance. One mangled pile-of-body-parts reference directly attributable would be plenty for me.
We've heard all the warning about not using a tube, but I can't recall a single account of the bead breaking during use. Airhead racers often ditch the tubes to keep the wheels light... and those tires are taking a real pounding.
Like Tony, I just do tires with three spoons, and I use tubes. Do it right on the ground over some 2x4's and keep a knee on my first spoon while I walk the other two around. Kinda looks like two monkeys humping a football, but once you develop the technique the tires are pretty easy to change. When I got my bike it had the 30 year old factory tires on it. A bench vise served admirably as a bead breaker.
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The tape trick wouldn't apply of course if a tube was being used as you only want one bead in initially.
Both of the moped tires I mounted were tubed. The tape wrap actually works especially well with tubes. Keep tucking the slightly inflated tube into the bead as you close it with the tape and then the valve stem poking out is the point at which you first insert the tire on the wheel.
An explosion inside the tire produces incredible amounts of pressure which I'll safely assume are well beyond what the tire or rim are made to handle. An exploded rim can seriously maim or kill.
My attempt at humor wasn't that poor was it ?:)
Wish my camera hadn't broken. I'd film this attempt. Thank you guys for the input. There is a small, but respected, bike shop a couple of miles down the road and I'll check his labor price on Monday. The only work I haven't performed myself on airheads over the years is the transmission so I ought to add a tire change to my skills anyway.
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Sorry, I missed the humor :-[. People do use that technique, though usually with ether.
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Sorry, I missed the humor :-[. People do use that technique, though usually with ether.
Humor? I prefer nitrous. Oh... you meant tire mounting. sorry
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Ok. Done but not quite. Seating the bead was a BEAR. Lube used was K-Y. Super slick, formulated to not harm rubber (for obvious reasons) 100 percent water soluble, and cheap.
The zip-tie, strapping, method worked for the rear tire but not the front. Tire irons, two beers, every obscenity known, as well as some Polish ones, at volumes that even surprised me, and four hours finally compelled the #u@ker into the rim well.
Never again. NEVER! Unless in some militia infested pakistani jerk-water and life depends on it I'll leave it to the pros.
After all that, the front tire bead would not seat along a ten inch section on one side. Might have deformed the bead a bit in the mighty struggle and that's the cause. Don't know. Tried to loose all the air and index the tire but without a rigid stand to mount the rim this is all but impossible by hand to do. Finally stretched this section outward with two tire irons and was able to get it to seat, but not perfectly. There is a seam demarcation between the bead and the sidewall that is about exactly even with the rim edge after mounting. Spinning the wheel/tire this seam is unconcentric with the rim edge by between 1/16 and 1/8 inch. My previous tires were perfectly concentric with the rim.
What are your tricks for setting the bead? One suggestion was to break the beads again, lube them very well, pressure to 20lbs over the sidewall max (41psi) and leave in the hottest sun for a few hours.
Another was to immediately mount them on the bike, run at about 25 psi, and hit some good bumpy roads for a few miles.
Any other ideas? Anyone else running these Pilot Activ Michelins?
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The confirmed last time forever when I fitted new Bridgestone rubber -and this was done during the hottest part of a Texas summer- I put so much air pressure in the front tire, while praying the bead would set, that I was big time skeered. Laid the wheel outside on the sunny n' hot concrete and backed way off.
About ten minutes later, I heard a strong "pop' and the bead was seated. I had measured near 80-90 psi to get this to happen.
Half a day, sweat-soaked clothes, couple blood offerings and a small nick on the snowflake. No mas!
BTW, the rear tire was cake... as far as getting the bead to set properly.
BTW #2, tubeless.
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I haven't run those Michelins but if I recall correctly they do have a reputation of being near impossible to seat even for the Pro's. Other makes of tire can be very much easier.
All forums make a fuss about the dreaded "tire thread" but it seems to me that info on what tires are a bear to mount is about the most useful information you could hope to find. I have found Pirelli's to be easy and Metzler not too bad.
I have some Michelins to mount next but not those. Mine are tube type M45's so I'm hoping they won't be too much trouble.
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Barry, the "Dreaded Tire Thread" is the kind that starts with, "What's the best tire..." This degenerates into a major argument most of the time. This "tire thread" is technical in nature as would be a thread discussing the merits of a particular tire construction.
I've mounted several sets of Michelin Macadam 50 tires and found that warming them up AND using the super slick tire lube from the No-Mar folks really helped the bead to seat. I remember in the past, just using soapy water, I have to put around 110 PSI in one to get the bead to pop! I clipped the chuck on, put it outside the door, and went back inside and slowly cranked up the regulator until I heard the pop...