The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: disco51 on April 25, 2014, 09:12:19 AM
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I replaced the pushrod seals with good success. The neutral switch doesn't appear to be the culprit. The oil appears to be coming from the back of the oil pan, but I'm assuming this is just gravity and the lowest point on the bike. It's slow, so not super obvious. Maybe one drip of oil every 2-3 days. Haven't been able to pinpoint it just yet. What are the other usual culprits?
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Is it motor oil or gear oil? Should be able to tell by the smell of it.
If you can clean up all the oil and then take it out for a quick, low speed ride that will help you find the source of the leak. Highway speeds will blow the oil all over the place and make it harder to track.
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Also use of talcum powder may help track the leak.
I've seen the gasket of the oil pan to become leaky with age. As the level of oil is above it, there is a trace of oil running along the gasket.
Only remedy I know is to make use of the oil change to put a new gasket on the pan. And clean it while at it.
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Air currents can be the devil in tracking oil weeps, seeps n' drips.
As a personal example, I recently suspect a leak from the final drive on my new-to-me R100S. Little drops on the drain plug, then onto the rim, tire and floor. Figured the trace of oil on top of the driveshaft-final drive case was just whipped up there by the breeze. Changed an interior oil seal, cardan cover gasket and cleaned it up. Drips reappeared.
Next spotted some oil on the pan adjacent the oil filter cover. That began my previously documented adventure in discovering a too deeply set oil filter canister, a less than spec 'crush' on the O-ring and a blown out gasket. All this turned into a multi-day game of correcting shims and O-rings and gaskets. That fixed it.
Next good ride revealed less oil but still a drop or two collected on the pan. Patience on short final...
Pushrod tube seal above the oil filter cover, partially hidden by that cover and a frame rail, was weepy. Changed all four seals and we're dry now. Took me many days and several choice words but forum help got me through.
Point being, don't simply assume that leak prone neutral switch is not at fault.
As noted above, clean up everything including the shelf that's below the neutral switch as it's a mini oil pool in waiting. Next dust everything with talc. Do a ride. Park the scoot on the centerstand and look at every nook and crevice. Wait a couple hours and inspect again. Any drips on the pan may run downhill and miss-direct your search. Happened to me, it did!
Us'ns always suggest to check the last thing you messed with. Tube seals? Possibly there could be an out of location O-ring at the jug to case junction?
Quite rare to have a pan gasket leak. Those gaskets are quite thick. Have you checked all those pan bolts? Do not get heavy with a wrench and strip threads! Snug is good. Fixing a stripped pan attach threaded hole is a royal PITA.
And then there's that hidden away rear main seal behind the clutch. Arggh!
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As has been said, you need to determine what type oil it is .
My guess, would be a seeping rear main seal .
I replaced mine 16 years ago on the '81 R65 and I just noticed engine oil on the garage floor under it this afternoon, looks like time for another replacement !!!!
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Couple of things to think about.. first off, it probably is the neutral switch.
Last time I did the oil change on the final drive and shaft, I noticed a little drop of oil on the lowest point of the rear rim. Changed the crush washers, carried on.. still there, every now and then.
The bike goes in for some ($$) transmission work, and the mechanics notice a couple big puddles as they moved the bike around. Turns out the shock is done for, and explained why the rim still had oil even after the crush washer change.
I also had the neutral switch replaced at the same time.
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Still trying to figure this one out. It's slow, so I'm in no hurry. I'm not aware of any harm I'm doing to the bike if it is the rear main seal. This looks like a PIA to fix and something I'd save for the winter.
I guess I was looking for a systematic approach to the oil drip on the floor. Kind of a flow chart to drips on the floor...
For example, first check the neutral switch, then pushrod seals, etc. etc.
I appreciate the suggestions and I'll let you know how it turns out. Got it pretty well clean last night so hoping I'll see something later on today. Well, actually I hope I don't, but I'll check later on today.
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... Got it pretty well clean last night so hoping I'll see something later on today. Well, actually I hope I don't, but I'll check later on today.
Did you powder its butt? Saves a lot of time.
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I'm thinking it's going to the be the neutral switch…. we have a winner.
Anyone have some good pics regarding this install/replacement?
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See Snowbum's article on replacing the leaking neutral switch. http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/neutralswitch.htm
He is quite specific regarding using Loctite around the seam of the switch. There is also a very decent article with photos that I believe has been previously posted on this forum. It is a bit of a PITA to replace/repair the switch but must be done. It is not difficult, just awkward to get to.
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Choices...
Buy the $34.00 OEM guaranteed to eventually leak again no matter what you do neutral switch or install the better designed $21.00 Italian-made repop switch from Motobins.
Shipped via Royal Air Mail at the low cost Packet Rate (lower than UPS rates within the USof A), my new switch arrived in four days. Lucky there, I was.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520Transmission%2F76700A_zpsa1c93936.jpg&hash=d80e73dd62d5701c2d0e3eb72a7cc18087f5ae31) (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/montmil/media/BMW%20Transmission/76700A_zpsa1c93936.jpg.html)
The rear motor mount bolt, plus the hefty aluminum spacer tube, must come out. Block up the engine before removing these parts. The engine must be secure and by taking the load off the bolt, it can be extracted easier.
Disconnect the two wires from your metered leak. Clean the connectors and be gentle with the vintage wiring. Remove the neutral switch and see how far you can throw it. A very cathartic action.
Use a new crush washer. Don't cheap out here or you may end up doing this whole procedure again. Argh! I believe the shop manual -or someone who has never actually done this job- says to use a box-end wrench to snug up the new switch. Once you get to that install point, you'll see that's impossible. OE and just snug it up.
You may be advised to put the honkin' big aluminum tube in the freezer so it will "shrink" and be easier to install. Try it. It might work for you. I went the easier route and ground a slight 45 degree angle on each end. Less than 1/8" width is plenty to assist the tube back between the frame rails.
One of those bent-tip, angled pry bars from Harbor-Freight and a plastic mallet eventually encouraged the refit.
This is one of those jobs that you want to do only once. Afterwards, reward yourself with the adult beverages of choice.
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That switch is also available stateside:
http://www.bmw2valve.com/motorcycle/6131097.html
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I got the Italian part in the mail today. Anybody use thread sealer with this or just au naturale...
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You need to put an aluminum crush washer on the switch before installing it .
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Got that.
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Anybody use thread sealer with this or just au naturale..
Sealant or tape should only be used on tapered threads. This is a parallel thread so sealant probably wouldn't work without the crush washer.
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Usually, the switches don't leak from the threaded area, it's through the switch, where we have issues with them .
Haven't had one leak from the threads, but everyone has leaked through the switch, eventually .
I've got a switch from Motobins, the Italian manufactured one, that's going in the next time I replace one .
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While you could potentially use a little bit of sealer on the switch, I never have. They do/should come with a crush washer, and you just have to snug them up a little bit more than finger tight. Just make sure the engine case surface is very clean before you screw in the replacement
It has also been my experience that these switches usually leak through the plastic body - quite often soon after I've smacked the wire terminals where the wires plug on.
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... It has also been my experience that these switches usually leak through the plastic body - quite often soon after I've smacked the wire terminals where the wires plug on.
Excellent endorsement to use the Italian-made repop switch. No plastic. ;)
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The new switch went in fairly easy. I put the spacer in the freezer while I worked on the switch and it went back in like butter. Hopefully, this will last a while. I was able to get an open ended box end wrench in there to snug it up a tad. Worst part was hooking back up the wires. Finally realized if I snugged it tight, then backed it out a half turn, I could get one wire on easy and then tighten it all the way and put the other on.
My transmission oil was overflowing when I opened up the fill plug first. Looks like some oil in there. Need to start figuring that one out.
Thanks for all of the help as always.
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Just an update to this ongoing thread for those still interested. After successful replacement of the neutral switch, the bike was dry for a week (non-ridden). I finally got out for a decent ride and noticed the leak is back. Damn.
I still have trouble differentiating gear oil from engine oil when they aren't fresh. Might have been able to delay the neutral switch for awhile if I could have figured that one out. To my defense it's tough to see for sure in that location if it's the switch or coming from the rear main seal or oil pump cover.
Fairly certain it's now the rear main seal or oil cover.
Think I'll put this job off until the winter.
Does the 79' have the Phillips head screws on the oil pump cover needing the impact wrench?
A great write up on this job from Brook Reams on the internet I found through the airheads list.