The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Julio A. on May 24, 2010, 06:56:09 AM
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I noticed lately that when I shift up or down, there is "grinding gear" feeling before it completely shift or sometime it does not shift at all.
I also noticed when I rev it up a little before shifting up or when I rev down before shifting down, the R65 shifts smoothly.
is it really like that or should I adjust the clutch?
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Hey Julio. I had the same problem when I first got my r65. I did adjust my clutch, but I don't think that was the problem. for me, it was coming from a wet clutch' on the bike before the r65, and trying to shift the r65 the same way. Once I got a 'feel' for the r65 the grinding went away. I'll be interested in what some of our more experienced members have to say, but if your coming from a wet clutch to the r65, then it might be a matter of adjusting your riding style as much as adjusting your clutch, as it was for me.
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My experience is the same as i-man's. I used to get false neutrals and stuff, but now I hardly ever do. I just got better at shifing it.
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I have started to shift by applying pressure to the shifter and then using the clutch. This seems to help. Are there other techniques?. Havent used a shifter on bikes since the 1980s..
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If adjusting the clutch cable, or a different shifting technique doesn't help your shifting, there is one more possibility, the transmission input splines may be dry and rusted, causing the clutch disc not to move properly when the clutch lever is pulled in .
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Pre-load lever when up-shifting and "blip" the throttle between gears when down-shifting with clutch. This is a non-synchro transmission...
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Thanks Bob & Justin, sline lube done week before last, new clutch cable, piston bearing and spring. clutch cable is in all the way both at lever (to maintain the 201 mm dist) and at tranny end. I'll start following justins preload & 'blip' technique
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I'll start following justins preload & 'blip' technique
Preload and blip made all the difference on my gear shifting. I only get ocasional grinding from 1st to 2nd gears but goes away if I shift slowly (1st -> neutral -> 2nd), or I match correctly revs / rotation :)
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What a relief... Im always a bit paranoid and think the worst. Especially after 1. discovering that the clutch rod and bearings were a mass of rusted metal and bearings dropping all over the floor after removing the piston, 2. the condition of the oil in the tranny 3, dropping the tranny from the workbench to a concrete floor and finally finding a 5 mm piece of metal in the drain plug after the 1st transmission oil flush.
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When I bought mine last fall there was suppossed to be a transmission problem but with a re and re, total inspection and oil change, clutch and plate checks, splines, the only problem I found was a severly bent foot peg that prevented the shift from going into gear clean but even when I tested the bike I could really find no problem the secret is to shift slow and positive they do not like to be shifted fast like many of the asian bikes. I've owned a lot of other models and makes but this is my first beemer, and I'm liking it a lot, I now have over 4000 miles on it since Feb 24th and not a grind or missed shift unless I tried to rush the transmission. One of the people I ride with is a diehard beemer fan he's never owned anything but beemers, lots of them both with and without sidecars he's told me the transmission is one of the best he's ever seem in over 30 years of beemers so I'm not worried any more. After all it was meant to ride strong for a long time and I believe it. But 55,000 miles in 30 years is really peanuts, it's bearly broke in. Also handles gravel road nicely even large marble size stones and loose sand with the lower center of gravity it's way better than my old dispatch riders harley 45 but doesn't have the stump pulling power of the longer stroke harley but no oil leaks if far better. Drove some loging roads and wash outs sand pits and big puddles on the weekend even got it dirty enough to clean. I haven't had this much fun in years.
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Other than an occasional slip into neutral instead of a gear on shift (mostly between 2nd and 3rd), it has always shifted well.
I never knew it was a non-synchro transmission. It always takes the shift smoothly regardless of rpm/gear/wheel speed.
Maybe I just got one of the good ones. [smiley=smiley.gif]
k_enn
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Pre-load lever when up-shifting and "blip" the throttle between gears when down-shifting with clutch. This is a non-synchro transmission...
Is the pre-load just a moderate upward pressure on the lever just before shifting? Or would it be more of a light pressure? (I'm experimenting with smooth shifts, and I don't want to screw up and hear something horrendous down there).
I recently started to wait a second or so with the clutch in when up-shifting. The tranny seemed to protest less that way. I assume it has something to do with the engine speed needing to slow down slightly.
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Pre-load is taking the slack out of the lever just until you feel resistance, then when the clutch is pulled it will pop into the next gear.
Up changes should be very smooth, in fact if you want the smoothest upward changes especially in the top couple of gears forget using the clutch.
Changing down smoothly is more of a challenge. I find it easier blipping the throttle when riding in a spirited fashion and using some revs. At lower speeds it's harder to time and I do get some clonks. When changing the gearbox oil recently after 2 years there was almost nothing on the magnet so it can't be doing much harm.
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Wow, this is a very old thread. After 4 years of using the bike though, the transmission shifts beautifully when I got used to it.
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Well since it's back alive...
don't just preload the lever, but hold the lever up until you have fully let the clutch out. False neutrals will disappear (you will feel it make the second step into gear if you were gonna get a false neutral).
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I wonder if the issue of false neutrals is down to general wear in the box or selector rather than technique. For me false neutrals never seemed to happen even when I was new to airheads but mine is a very low mileage box. I think the reputation of gear changing on airheads is worse than the reality and after sometime of ownership you wonder what the fuss was about.
The only thing that sometimes catches me out is neutral to first where if the dogs don't line up there is no way it's going to go in gear. It's all down to having a dry clutch and no residual oil drag to keep things moving like most other bikes. For us it works best if you engage first immediately after pulling the clutch lever so that the shafts are still rotating. Failing that to get the dogs to line up you have to either let the clutch out momentarily to spin the input shaft or roll the bike forward or backwards a little to spin the output shaft.
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Thanks Folks. I tried the pre-load a bit today. Shifting seems to work better now...though 1st to 2nd still is a bit tricky.
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..though 1st to 2nd still is a bit tricky.
That's normal enough as the bigger gaps between the lower ratios makes matching the speeds harder.
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I have an easy-to-find false neutral between 3rd & 4th, it can be almost a two step process feeling it go out of 3rd, then into 4th.
I also find there's a fine line between shifting too fast on acceleration and being too deliberate, both of which will prompt protests from the gearbox.
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The OEM bent wire shifter linkage is not helping shifting as well .
The later OEM linkage with ball joints help out the shifting .
A sloppy shift lever pivot adds to the problem .
I had problems with boots / footwear, I could shift the oilhead with no problems, but it was a disaster with the R65 .
The foot pegs are also adjustable, if you want to try that as well .
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I was out again today, practicing. I think I'll survive.
At lower rev's, I can even hear and feel a slight pre-click associated with the pre-load.
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The OEM bent wire shifter linkage is not helping shifting as well.
I have the fix for that. Check the Trading Post section. [smiley=thumbup.gif]
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The OEM bent wire shifter linkage is not helping shifting as well.
I have the fix for that. Check the Trading Post section. [smiley=thumbup.gif]
What's the topic called in the Trading Post?
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Upgrade Your R65 Gear Selector Link .
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The initial post describes exactly what I had - I had to rev up before shifting as the gears did not go in every third time.
The fix - I pulled my clutch actuation apart and the assembly inside the gearbox was destroyed (no clutch re-traction bearing ). Putting new parts in made my gearbox work without any problems, the shifting between gears always goes with the first try.
+1 that it is a clutch issue from my own experience.
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Upgrade Your R65 Gear Selector Link .
Mine looks like this. Is it the paper clip type?
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Can't tell without removing the rubber boot. If there are no threaded adjusters under there then you have the original bent wire type. No doubt that the replacement threaded adjusters are superior to the bent wire type which without the rubber boot would be a visual affront to any Engineer but I still have an unworn one and to be fair there is nothing wrong with it. It is not a source of slack in the gear change. What does produce a lot of slop is the gear lever pivot. My gear change quality improved when I shimmed it.
Besides it being better engineered one reason I would like a threaded linkage is to make the foot rest adjustable.
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Can't tell without removing the rubber boot. If there are no threaded adjusters under there then you have the original bent wire type. .
I started trying to pry up the rubber, but was afraid I'd split something. I'll have a closer look after work. I'm sure that I can feel through the rubber which is which. I think I just have the paper clip.