The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: lukasgrech on April 14, 2014, 07:50:35 AM
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Hi all.
I have an electric problem on my '79 R65 that I can't diagnose. Half of my Hi-Beam switch has suddenly stopped working.
The push-up position for keeping the hi-beam permanently on does not work.
I have little to no experience with electrics/electronics, so forgive me if what I suggest makes no sense.
The temporary (push down) part of the switch works, which leads me to rule out problems with the bulb itself.
Are there two separate fuses for the temporary and the permanent position of the switch? - if so, might it have been one of them that has blown?
I have removed the switch housing from the handle bar and contact cleaned the insides - still no result.
Could it be a problem with the wiring from the switch-relay-bulb? (Something I have only very basic knowledge of)
I find it quite strange that only half of the switch should suddenly stop working.
If anyone could point me in the right direction as to where I should be looking for a fault, or what the fault might be, I would be very grateful!
Side note: when I have a turn signal on, the neutral idiot light flashes in synch with the indicators.
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Will the momentary switch turn on the high beam with the key off?
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Will the momentary switch turn on the high beam with the key off?
Nope
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Hello !
You can open the switch for a forensic investigation provided you keep the steel balls from jumping to infinity and keep the small springs inside the "device"...
IRC from the last time I opened one, there are a wire soldered on two places for the permanent on and pass... So maybe one solder went south...
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Have you checked the fuses? I think some bikes the momentary switch is not fused.
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Check out this article.http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/headlightrelay.htm .
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I have not checked the fuses. I will do that first, as I am a little weary of taking apart anything too fiddly like switches or electronics - I'm not confident I'd be able to build them back up!
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Check out this article.http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/headlightrelay.htm .
Thanks. Will do.
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I've checked the two fuses behind the right hand side panel, and they are not melted, and seem in good condition.
How can I go about sourcing the fault?
I am at a loss, staring at the confusion that is my wiring harness is not doing me much good haha
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Your lighting problem, Luka, is likely something simple. The nut to crack is finding the problem and that will require a wiring diagram for your bike, possibly a VOM meter. and some time.
1979 puts your bike at 35 years old. Wire connectors corrode and fail to transfer power, switches lose their connectivity, fuses may look good but are actually failing to transfer electricity -especially those old school, euro ceramic junkers.
Troubleshooting is an art form but it's not magic. From your first post, I'd bet a couple beers that the hi-lo switch is the issue. There's a small spring and a tiny ball bearing inside. Pull the entire handlebar switch assembly, put it in a big, clear plastic bag that you can get your hands and tools into and open it up. Dirt, corrosion, bad spring, soldered terminal failed, well, you get the picture.
Trace the wires via the diagram and check each connection for power and/or continuity. You WILL find it.
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Your lighting problem, Luka, is likely something simple. The nut to crack is finding the problem and that will require a wiring diagram for your bike, possibly a VOM meter. and some time.
1979 puts your bike at 35 years old. Wire connectors corrode and fail to transfer power, switches lose their connectivity, fuses may look good but are actually failing to transfer electricity -especially those old school, euro ceramic junkers.
Troubleshooting is an art form but it's not magic. From your first post, I'd bet a couple beers that the hi-lo switch is the issue. There's a small spring and a tiny ball bearing inside. Pull the entire handlebar switch assembly, put it in a big, clear plastic bag that you can get your hands and tools into and open it up. Dirt, corrosion, bad spring, soldered terminal failed, well, you get the picture.
Trace the wires via the diagram and check each connection for power and/or continuity. You WILL find it.
Thanks, sounds like a couple of beers and a weekend job! Glad I didn't tear into the switch assembly for a 'quick look'.
Looking at the wiring, and being the organised freak that I am, makes me want to clean up and re-wire the entire system - something I'll probably save for next winter (fully aware that this would probably be the biggest learning curve I'll ever experience). Has anyone done this before, is it worth the time/money?
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If you want a wiring diagram for the early model this is the best there is.
The quality when you zoom in is just astounding. I have it printed out on a big sheet for easy reference. Separate legend needed unless you speak German.
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Cheers Barry!
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The high beam problem almost has to be the switch itself. Can you wiggle the switch around the up position and get the high beam to at least flicker? Does the switch have any "click" to it?
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I wouldn't re-wire the bike unless you had cracked insulation all over the place or were already going to strip the bike down. The wiring itself can cause problems if 1) The insulation is cracked and the wire is shorting out 2) The wire has broken or is badly corroded 3) The wiring connections are loose or dirty.
What I would do, if you want to spend a little quality time with the electrical system, is pull apart the connections, clean them, and reassemble with some dielectric grease.
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Alfrom, the switch does have a click to it, but no amount of wiggling gets a flicker from the light.
Luca, thanks for the tip. I think I will do as you say, to perhaps give it better reliability.
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Have you checked that the high beam filament is intact on the bulb , Also you could spay some electric contact cleaner inti the switch and work it up and down . regards John Muir
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Please excuse my typing---- Spray rather than Spay
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The problem is in the switch itself, there are two contacts inside the switch for high beam one can work while the other is inop .
You need to open up the switch, but there are no parts available for the switch, so if something is broken, etc ..., yuu will need a replacement, or wire in a different switch .
I've had two switches go bad in the time I've had my '81 R65, 33 years .
Never had any success in repairing them the plastic parts inside usually were falling apart, non-repairable .
The head light circuit is not protected by a fuse .
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Luca, thanks for the tip. I think I will do as you say, to perhaps give it better reliability.
Cleaning contacts is a good way to get in touch with your bike and maybe prevent future problems. I've got to say, however, that the electrical contacts in airheads are few and well shielded. The peace of mind you get from inspection and cleaning ain't a bad thing, though.
As for the problem, listen to the others here and scrutinize that switch.
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The switch assembly is still available, it's on the Max fiche for $104. My switch works electrically but has no mechanical clicks in either the high beam or turn signal switches, so I've been thinking a new one is in my future.
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There are three contacts on the headlight switch-high beam, low beam and flash. The high beam is probably bad or else the wire between the flash and high. A new switch is the best answer unless you can take the switch apart and see something obvious an repairable.
Bob
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Not sure how helpful this picture will actually be, but...
In the middle of the pic is(I believe) the connection between the two high beam "modes". It's a bit of bare wire between two soldered connections. You might see if everything looks solid there.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1350.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp763%2Facarey3%2FIMG_20140415_172226017_zps6983646b.jpg&hash=925eb0d7820ffe8047dc9468bb109a8855e4e81b) (http://s1350.photobucket.com/user/acarey3/media/IMG_20140415_172226017_zps6983646b.jpg.html)
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I mentioned this on another thread, but if you're buying a new switch in the US, you might consider ordering one from overseas if you fancy a headlight on/off switch. Couple more bucks, but then you have the Euro style switch. I ordered mine from motobins, I'm pretty sure.
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Cheers for all the help! I'm away from my bike for a few days, hopefully I'll be able to have a go at it soon, looks like the switch is the item to look at.
I'll try my luck at actually getting at the internals of the switch, and then see if I can diagnose from there
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+1 with opening up the switch. I'd also check the bulb, as it's pretty easy to do.
Here is the problem I had with the headlight switch (check link below). Still haven't fixed it. With the current amount of pressure, the contact is made. I'm still sort of looking for a cheap switch on ebay. Perhaps this will help.
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1363097002
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I'm going to open my light switch sometime this weekend, as well as I have high beam and flash-high, but no low beam. Will report what I find out in my "electrical woes" thread and post here if ya'll are interested.
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We ALL be interested.
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Right. So I finally had time to have a look at the problem. It is not in fact the switch (hurray for not having to take that apart).
The problem comes from the wire that is not connected at the plug under the tank.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1349.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp759%2FLukas_Grech%2F2014-04-24173357_zps0e6d0326.jpg&hash=d4d90571da22de4e14548d92437fd4d6852c9010) (http://s1349.photobucket.com/user/Lukas_Grech/media/2014-04-24173357_zps0e6d0326.jpg.html)
As you can see, the blue (taped to the yellow) wire is completely removed from its location in the plug. When I touch the wire to its mate in the plug, the hi-beam does come on.
I've checked the plug and that position is missing the connector that all the other holes have.
My question now is, what is the best way to secure the wire back into its position without having to dismantle the entire plug (if at all possible)?
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With some ingenuity it's possible to replace the electrical connectors in those blocks. There will be little sprung ears that can be depressed in order to release the connector but you are going to need a spare connector from a donor block to crimp or solder onto the blue wire.
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Separating the two connector halves is going to be the best way to make a proper repair.
BMW rarely soldered terminal connectors to the wires. Instead, a double-crimp was used whereby the first crimp rolled a portion of the metal connector over and onto the wire. The second crimp did the same thing but grabbed tight to the wire insulation. These connections resisted, to a degree, the damage that might occur earlier with a rigid, soldered connection.
To determine if you need a male or female terminal, the connector must be separated.
You mentioned the terminal for this wire is long gone. The raw end of the wire may have failed do to corrosion, excessive flexing, or a ham-fisted PO. The terminals usually stay in the blocks. Let's just blame the PO for this.
Your local electronics store -we call 'em Radio Shack 'round here- should have a terminal to suit. That's another reason to pull the connector apart; you need to know the correct size. The new terminal does not have to be the double-crimp style but it must fit its male or female counterpart. If all you can find are terminals with the plastic bits, cut off the plastic as it obviously ain't gonna fit into the block.
Couple points: The terminal connectors are held within the connector blocks by a small tang that goes in easy. To remove a terminal, use a very small flat-blade screwdriver to locate and depress the tang while you gently pull the terminal clear. Refit is cake.
While at the store, pick up a small tube of dielectric grease and treat every terminal you come across with a light smear. Prevents corrosion. Insures good electrical performance. Battery terminals also love this stuff. There is also a spray can product of terminal cleaner that will not damage plastic nor paint. Good to use as you can shoot some into a connector block and see gunk drip onto your shop towel. Using both products can add years of performance to your circuit's life.
Fix it proper and fugitaboudit. Hope this helps you to "see the light".
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Thanks Monte, I have seen the light! I'll have a go at it and see what I manage to do.
Cheers!
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Hello !
To remove the pins from the connector, you need a feather as they call it in the trade. It is a very thin wall tube you put into the connector from the contact side. It will press the locking tabs and then you can pull the wire and it will draw the pin out of the housing.
As I no longer work in aircraft manufacture where this tool is very common, I had success making one with an aluminium beer can and a pair of scissors.
Worst part was to keep my fingers free from blood...But you get the idea. something hard enough you can make into a small cylinder to fit between the pin and the casing. Plastic sheet is fine too.
Edit : you may find male pins on the accessory plug which, if like my bike, are unused... Just isolate the wire and you're done.
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Thanks George, will definitely use that.
Question about Dielectric grease. Here in the UK, nothing of that name seems to exist. Is it the same as a silicone grease?
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So you've found that there are separate wires running from the switch to the main loom for high beam "on" vs high beam "flash"? I didn't see that coming :-?
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Yep, you can see how that runs in the wiring schematic posted above. Seems strange..
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Dielectric grease is not hard to find in the UK but I'd use silicone grease if I already had it.
Dielectric grease is a silicone grease perhaps with more thickening agents.
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Woo! To the right of the photo, you will see I have Hi-Beam!
The terminal was still in the plug, and in pretty good condition after a bit of cleaning, so I removed the botched wire, and soldered on a new wire end, and that to the terminal. Easy as..
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1349.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp759%2FLukas_Grech%2F2014-04-26160155_zps805d1b64.jpg&hash=6071f949a6569a39da624079fb5883370a5a088b) (http://s1349.photobucket.com/user/Lukas_Grech/media/2014-04-26160155_zps805d1b64.jpg.html)
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I love it when a plan comes together. - Hannibal
Smith. Not Lecter