The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Matt Chapter on October 29, 2013, 01:50:40 PM
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As I mentioned in another thread, I've been hearing some clunking from the rear somewhere when backing out of the garage. On the centerstand, when I rotate the rear wheel, I can feel something rubbing / grinding, and it sounds a bit like a "whiiir" plus the intermittent clunk. My swingarm bearings seem to be fine.. I'm not sure where to look next although I suspect I need to dismantle the drive shaft.
I also topped off the gear oil, no affect.
What noise / feel would be normal when you rotate the wheel by hand?
Anybody have a magic wand they want to wave? (Keeping in mind that this is a monoshock frame.)
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I would drain the oil in the final drive and drive shaft and see if there is any excess amount of metal in the, before I did anything .
I hear no noises when I rotate the rear wheels on my R65's .
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Matt, Have you removed the rear wheel for a visual? There should not be any strange noises when you manually rotate the rear wheel while on the centerstand.
Could a brake shoe be off it's pivot and rubbing on something?
Check the splines. Look for any metal trash that might be inside the rear brake area. Remember those open to ambient atmosphere vents in the rear hub? Could be some bit of Austin Limestone got lucky and caught a ride with you.
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A little bit of transmission noise is normal when rotating the back wheel, but it should feel smooth and sound even. Maybe some light ticking and whirring, but nothing "heavy"
If everything looks good inside the rear end, inspect the driveshaft at the front end, underneath the big rubber boot. It sounds like the U-joint or flange bolts are cooked.
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I did take the rear wheel off.. plenty of brake pad left, nothing out of the ordinary. I suppose the next thing is to drain the oil as Bob suggests, and maybe peak into the boot of doom.
At least it's been wet here, so I'm not missing out on anything.
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Draining and checking gear oils is a good idea. You might be able to poke a magnetic pick'em up stick into the case and hopefully not pick up anything.
I'd for sure peek under the driveshaft boot.
You mentioned hearing the noise when you roll the bike backwards outta the garage. There's a certain amount of lash within the drive line components and the 'going backwards' might suggest a backed out U-joint flange screw making the occasional contact/clunk/grind noise. Look for any scuffed spot on the screw/s.
Way too early to panic. It's going to be something simple. Cautiously optimistic here.
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There are three possible things to check out:
1. UJoint
2. UJoint flange - bolts loose?
3. Transmission bearings
If it's not #1 or 2, then that leaves #3. A clunk rotating the wheel in reverse is a standard way for checking ujoints and bearings on the paralever GS.
If there's more than soft fuzz on the trans drain plug magnet - like slivers or chunks - time to stop riding. Right now! It's exponentially more expensive to repair with each additional mile!
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Just realized on the way home that if i'm going to drain the transmission oil, i'd better go ahead and replace the neutral switch. Motobins to the rescue! Too bad I remembered on a Friday evening.
I recently chucked my oil drain pan because it was a leaky piece of junk.. what do you guys like to use, especially if it fits nicely between the center stand and the wheels?
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I recently chucked my oil drain pan because it was a leaky piece of junk..what do you guys like to use, especially if it fits nicely between the center stand and the wheels?
An old Turkey roasting tin.... I did buy her a new one.
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Nothin but the best for my baby... all her fluids are drained into a silver bowl!
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Finally drained the transmission oil. Here's a shot of the drain plug with metal spurs.. Feel free to speculate wildly.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7407%2F11036438325_f45e5989e2.jpg&hash=407285ca498c39a6d00794d6d9e49d2b328743e9) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77662887@N05/11036438325/)
Good, bad, put a beer on it??
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My best guess, would be bearings .
I had water getting into the transmission in the late '80's to '93, until I found that the speedometer cable drive boot was the culprit .
Water / rust damage on the bearing races .
You could try changing the trans oil and run it for a while and see if you get the same amount of metal on the drain plug .
Have you changed the trans oil before ?
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If its been awhile (10k+ miles?) or its been an unknown amount of time, Id say the drain plug looks normal. Little splinters happen. Chunks or bits, or a whole lot more of the splinter type metal would be a different story. If it was me, I would look closely at the sediment of the oil you drained out. I would not give that an automatic doom diagnosis.
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Matt, Removing the Cardan cover on the final drive is very easy. Not even necessary to remove the rear wheel. You will need a fresh paper gasket when going back together. Hopefully, Lone Star will have one tucked back with the seldom called for Airhead parts...
With the cover off, it's another easy bit to lift out the spline cup and expose the bevel gear innards. Watch for and capture the large diameter shims and replace them as removed.
Kerosene would do well to flush out the final drive. You can rotate the rear wheel and inspect gear teeth although the bearings can only be checked via a full disassembly. There is also a large ball bearing that can be cleaned out and checked for scratchy racket. It comes away with the spline cup assembly.
As suggested, clean out as best you can, oil the big ball bearing, put 'er back together and don't forget to add the gear oil! Go for a ride and see how she sounds. If you wish, drain the gear lube again and check for fuzz.
Luck, amigo.
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That's about 1500 miles worth of riding. Previous change at 5000 mile interval had similar fuzz on the drain plug. I was thinking about checking the universal joint yesterday but then the wife opened the garage and let the warm air out. That and my Haynes compendium had no reference to it.
Monte if the final drive drain bolts are clean, is it worth peeking inside the cover?
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Monte if the final drive drain bolts are clean, is it worth peeking inside the cover?
Well, shoot. You're concern is the gearbox and I'm going on about the final drive. As SNL's Roseanne Roseannadanna would say, "Oh. Never mind."
Have you yet had a chance to peek inside the boot? Check the screw heads for scuff marks?
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Ok, if you only have 1500 miles on that oil, then the metal fuzz might be an issue.
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Ok I'm on the fence about my next course of action. I have to replace the neutral switch. Should I:
A) Jack up the engine, remove the rear engine mount, replace the switch and go riding?
B) Pull the transmission back or out completely and investigate for a worn bearing? Then do the switch, spline lube, etc.. Ride again some distant time in the future?
And here's a picture of the new switch. Says Italy on the side, but does have a plastic insert..
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3813%2F11192076106_66f86fd4cd.jpg&hash=9394ffc20bfeb2b0ea7e9b670e26424d513cbe6a) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77662887@N05/11192076106/)
Also, I did drain the final drive, and there was only a smudge of debris, so I think that's ok. I peeked inside the Boot of Doom, too. Seemed normal.
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PM'd you
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If that's what the transmission drain magnet looks like after 1500 miles I'd say it's time for an overhaul. That goes right along with the notchiness you feel rotating the wheel in reverse.
When a transmission needs help, the longer it goes unattended to, the more damage occurs. What I'm saying, if you do it now, all it may need is bearings. Wait another hundred or five hundred miles and you may be looking for a good used trans for parts or to replace this one. It really makes that much of a difference. Take it from someone who learned the hard way.
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Yo, Matt!
You out there, amigo? LTNHF. Still with us? :-/
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That drain plug looks very familiar (look left). The noise you describe also sounds very familiar. Mine was caused by the bearing on the output shaft chewing itself up because it didn't have the circlip/snap ring on the shaft.
Motobins have very reasonably priced sets of bearings, seals etc and I think it would be best to change them all while you're in there. And absolutely without question have a groove cut in the shaft for the circlip/snapring if it doesn't already have one. Otherwise your drain plug will look just like that again very quickly.
You can definitely rebuild the gearbox yourself if you can borrow the few special tools required.
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If you want to service your gearbox and do not have all special tools, look at a thread initiated by an Algerian on the French airhead forum which is heavily documented by an airhead expert (which made the BMW that won the BOC classic this year).
All is in French but pictures talk for themselves ... ad Google is your friend 8-)
http://www.flat-twin-bmw.com/t23732-boite-a-vitesse-a-refaire
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Still here, but we are getting into the coldest ( ;D ), drinkingest part of the holiday season.
Right now I have the fluid out of the transmission, and I think I'm going to take it to a local specialist at some point. (after refilling, of course). I haven't ridden it in a month or more at this point.
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Matt, Did you attempt to contact my provided source?
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Waiting for a warmer day with less to do so I can fill the transmission up. And maybe a little drier too, with the rain we've been getting. I'm in no hurry, as long as it's back on the road by March or so...
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I'm in no hurry, as long as it's back on the road by March or so...
Well I was close. Scheduled to pick the ol R65 up today. The problem was the transmission, final drive is fine. The noise from the transmission was transmitting down the driveshaft.
Here's the parts list, feel free to speculate about the condition of my wallet now. :-X
input seal
output seal
rear door gasket
shifter seal
breather hose
inp/int rear 495 (2)
bearing, in fr
bearing, gen 795
522015 open/sealed 808 (2)
shift roller, nylon
shifter spring index
shifter spring small
shifter spring med
drive shaft bolts (4)
trans boot
And the cherry on top: my shock is leaky now. (kaput) Luckily he's a suspension guy and will have some options to discuss at pick up.
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On Road Off Road in Austin?
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On Road Off Road in Austin?
That's the guy. He's done a ton of stuff for me over the years.. engine swap, head rework, fork seals, now the transmission. He does track day suspension setup for people, so his schedule can be crazy, but he also stocks a bunch of airhead parts, like the clutch cable you just have to have.
Throw in reasonable prices, and the fact that he doesn't hang up when I tell him the model year, and it's great. I just wish he was on my side of town.