The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2

Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Mainerider on March 14, 2014, 10:16:25 PM

Title: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Mainerider on March 14, 2014, 10:16:25 PM
In the gearbox. This can't be good, but how bad is it?

(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi146.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr241%2Fbauerdad%2F2014%2520pics%2F07332E05-7C3F-47CA-8B3A-88F6947A1F94_zps1kpi22mm.jpg&hash=75d8e6b73ad5890c6dc38d4de1825aa779b49361)


Not much on the magnetic plug, just that bit on the rag above the plug in the pic.
This is on the new to me '81 R65 with 11,000 miles on the odometer.

Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Mike V on March 14, 2014, 10:37:10 PM
Linda Blair?.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjrBjdb2T8

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  

I've seen emulsified hypoid before but never in that shade unless there's a transmission oil color I don't know about.  You mention the bike is new to you ... so there's a possibility the previous owner may have put something in the form of a synthetic or ... ?  If it smells like burnt popcorn it's most likely hypoid.  I would change it every 100 miles or so with GL5 80w90 hypoid (pn 07 51 0 412 042) to see if it clears up and keep a close eye on that magnetic drain plug.  Pay special attention to the sound of your transmission when at full operating temperature for excessive noise.  My personal experience with a failing transmission due to water infiltration is the rear output bearing will be the first to go. A real bad rear output bearing will make plenty of noise when hot and rotating the rear wheel with the transmission in neutral.  Check that speedo cable boot for damage too.  If it's torn, and not subtle and soft I would replace it.

If your magnetic drain plug starts to look like this - it's time for a rebuild.

  
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Barry on March 15, 2014, 05:59:42 AM
Sure looks like water has got into the oil and as Mike said the speedo drive boot is usually the cause.  With  such a low mileage on the gearbox I hope it hasn't caused any corrosion in the bearings. Don't be tempted to flush the box with anything other than proper gear oil and Keep changing it until it comes out clean.  


If I'm not changing the transmission oils at a service one thing I do is remove the fill plugs to check the level and also to make sure it still looks like oil.
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: montmil on March 15, 2014, 07:41:25 AM
...and get your wife's nice stainless steel mixing bowl washed and put away before she kicks your drain plug!

 ;D
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Luca on March 15, 2014, 09:12:59 AM
Quote
I've seen emulsified hypoid before but never in that shade unless there's a transmission oil color I don't know about.

Fortunately for Mainerider, there are some green tinted gear oils, so it might not be as bad as it looks at first.  I think the Valvoline Durablend that I use is green
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Mainerider on March 15, 2014, 10:55:58 AM
Ha! She's out of town. I'm sure you guys won't rat me out. Would you?
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Bob_Roller on March 15, 2014, 11:20:04 AM
Most likely the speedometer drive cable boot is the problem here .

Replace it, and like has been said run it awhile then drain it and do it over until it looks good .
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Mike V on March 15, 2014, 11:30:07 AM
I hope this all works out in your favor Mainerider.

Again ... don't pressure wash your bike guys and gals.  I enjoy a clean bike as much as anyone but I've learned the hard way year$ ago.  I would suggest if you insist on washing your bike with a forceful water stream to secure all points of entry by wrapping them with tape, plastic wrap or something, starting at the bottom and working up. Even that is no guarantee water will not enter at those points. And staying away from the speedo cable (and vented bolt), final drive vent, wheel bearing grease seals, brake drum, instruments, etc.  Look the bike over carefully before you start so you can strategically avoid areas water entry can cause damage.  Wash the bike, then go for a spirited 20 to 30 mile ride, then change your fluids when hot.  I try never to use a hose at all.  If I do, which is very seldom, it's with a very fine mist at very low pressure and adequate distance.  I find using a hand spray bottle with water to be much more time consuming but worth the effort for rinsing.  I now clean my bike with brake cleaner on aluminum (plastic brushes for stubborn areas), then 50/50 solution of water and Simple Green sparingly, then a rinse with water spray bottle.  Plenty of clean damp towels on painted and finish surfaces. Never wash the bike, and let it sit without getting it up to operating temperature for 20 or 30 minutes, by riding it.

Ok, off of my soap box.
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Justin B. on March 15, 2014, 11:31:08 AM
And I thought the stuff that came out of the Junkyard Dawg was nasty!  If the stuff that came off the magnet was just "fuzz" (rubbing between fingers it really can't be felt then you are probably OK.  If you actually can feel some "grit" then it's time to keep a close eye on it...
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: steve hawkins on March 15, 2014, 02:31:23 PM
Not cream of mushroom, more like asparagus or pea.

Nothing technical to add at this late stage.  Its already been said.

Cheers

Rev. light
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: montmil on March 15, 2014, 06:42:47 PM
Quote
Not cream of mushroom, more like asparagus or pea....  Cheers  Rev. light

Toss in some oyster crackers and ya gotta meal! Guaranteed to keep the plumbing operating smoothly.
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: montmil on March 15, 2014, 06:44:23 PM
Quote
Not cream of mushroom, more like asparagus or pea....  Cheers  Rev. light

Toss in some oyster crackers and ya gotta meal! Guaranteed to keep the plumbing operating smoothly.
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Semper Gumby on March 16, 2014, 06:08:57 PM
Not only replace the speedo boot but seal it with some RTV or rie-wrap the top of the bell (and use some RTV -top and bottom of the bell).

I change out my oils twice a year just to be on the safe side.  I use the Valvoline dark blue bottle (semi-synthetic) 80W90 in the winter and 85W145 in the summer.  The summer oil is a bit of an overkill but it gets me changing the oils twice a year.  All three places at the same time: rear diff 250cc , drive shaft 120cc, gearbox 800cc.

120,000 miles a still counting on the 03/1980 gear box.
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Luca on March 17, 2014, 12:14:39 AM
I used silicone on the top of the boot once, but found that it let go of the cable pretty quickly.  Subsequently lifted the boot up and packed with dielectric grease.
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Mainerider on March 19, 2014, 10:35:38 PM
Thanks, everyone. I popped over to Street Cycles, the local BMW dealership, tonight after dinner and got a bunch of various crush washers, an oil change kit and a roundel for the left side of the tank. I'll change the oil in the shaft and final drive, too, then get her registered so I can go for a ride.
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Mainerider on March 25, 2014, 09:53:25 PM
Looks like this is the culprit:

(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi146.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr241%2Fbauerdad%2F2014%2520pics%2F6fa2cfb55b8a27eb48563e1231677835_zps20175a4a.jpg&hash=c2a60e5125581dc6811ab1f209122dbf4b428425)

I got a new boot at Street Cycles this afternoon. Any tips on replacement? Seems pretty straightforward.
The transmission shifts nice and smooth. I'm dying to take it for a ride. 10f this morning.
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Barry on March 26, 2014, 03:32:41 AM
You have to remove the hollow bolt below left of the speedo drive boot. The speedo cable should then pull out and you can replace the boot.

Take very special care tightening that bolt as the threads strip easily. As you'll see it only holds the speedo cable in like a cotter pin so doesn't need to be tight for that purpose. Some re-located the earth cable so as to relieve the bolt of that duty  and then it can by little more than finger tight.

Take a look at this.


http://rter.co.nz/CB125BFC-62AC-4C7E-9CE3-3CD52AB6EE11/FinalDownload/DownloadId-53CF9EB7204B9516C09E080D485B9277/CB125BFC-62AC-4C7E-9CE3-3CD52AB6EE11/Airheads/airhead_tech/speedocableboot.pdf
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: montmil on March 26, 2014, 05:32:09 AM
After you wiggle out the speedometer cable's end piece, you'll be thinking, "How da heck am I gonna get dat big ol' thing through that little bitty hole?"

Be sure the speedometer drive fitting and cable area are clean. Warm up the new rubber boot and get it as pliable as you can. Liberally grease the boot both inside and out then start working it over the cable fitting. It will -eventually- go over.

Before refitting to the gearbox, pack the inside of the boot with grease. Check the anchor bolt... it's gun-drilled (hollow) and should not be clogged. Use a short 10mm wrench to snug up the bolt. No gorilla torque as you can easily strip the aluminum threads in the gearbox. Argh! Don't do that.

Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Barry on March 26, 2014, 01:47:38 PM
Sorry the link I posted above didn't work. Could have sworn I tested it.

If you haven't done this before I promise it's worth a look.


http://rter.co.nz/Airheads/airhead_tech/speedocableboot.pdf
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: arvo92 on March 26, 2014, 05:17:26 PM
Many thanks, Barry, for that pdf! I will be changing my speedo boot this weekend as well so I will definitely dig deep into this material before.
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Mainerider on March 26, 2014, 10:29:22 PM
Yes, thanks, Barry. Your broken link was enough for me to find it with some google-fu. :)
I haven't mounted the new boot yet but I did manage to get the bike insured and registered today. Now I just need a warm day.

Steven
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Mainerider on March 27, 2014, 11:52:23 PM
The new boot is in place. I'm ready to ride. Maybe Sat if we don't get too much snow tomorrow.

(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi146.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr241%2Fbauerdad%2F2014%2520pics%2F10DE01D1-7DD3-4F0D-B30E-637EDC144FAA_zpsx9mmrafy.jpg&hash=ee7a21c153cae9a51818a933cc47d5e4cc3ee31a)

I used an oversized drinking straw to get the boot on. Worked great. The kids got them for milkshakes.


I'd like to install the Sena intercom that Santa brought by then.


Steven
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Mainerider on March 29, 2014, 03:48:59 PM
I took my first BMW ride ever today! The bike did great. It felt fantastic to be out on two wheels again.
I had to borrow a mirror from my Honda Passport. Shifting was smooth, every just felt great.
I changed the gear oil when I got back, it didn't look as bad as last time. I'll change it again after a couple of hundred miles.

Thanks for your help everyone.

(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi146.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr241%2Fbauerdad%2F2014%2520pics%2F44629255092db41759e4bd48ddd40e67_zpsd825e174.jpg&hash=a161b7021dd87483fd7aaa5647ccba6f789cbc64)


(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi146.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr241%2Fbauerdad%2F2014%2520pics%2F3e53869ffc72bb6cee02406516a14eb0_zps66da29ec.jpg&hash=1454f164a74f435ef71ef5e937b94da17b340194)

Steven
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: arvo92 on March 29, 2014, 03:56:08 PM
I also fitted my boot today. My old one looked exactly like yours! Somehow I did not need any magic to get the new boot on - i just bodyheated the new one and wiggled it on. Suprisingly easy.

I am also waiting for a ride now. I have been struggling with bleeding my brakes. Today after 8 hours of ***** I finally got them to a situation that there is feel on the first pull. I need a test ride to make sure it is ready for MOT. I wanted to get the MOT done in Feb but now it seems it will be more in April :)
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Mainerider on March 29, 2014, 05:28:54 PM
Is MOT like our vehicle inspection? I registered mine as an Antique so I don't need to have an inspection. Kind of a weird rule, eh?



Steven
Title: Re: Uh oh! Help! Cream of mushroom soup
Post by: Luca on March 30, 2014, 08:47:02 AM
Best be sure what Maine's antique plate rules are.

In RI if you have antique plates on a vehicle it's only supposed to be on the road on weekends or when heading to/from a car show or a service garage.  Since they're supposed to see so little road use they let the inspection go.