The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: AlfromNH on February 18, 2014, 07:38:15 AM
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I'm in the process of trying to get the boot on the swingarm. Needless to say, it's a true PITA. I see Max has their own version, with a groove on the inside to help it seat. Anyone tried one?
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No knowledge of the Max BMW aftermarket boot but I would be surprised if installation is much easier. Das boot is a mild PITA at best.
Having the rubber boot warmed up should aid in getting everything popped into place. Folks use a variety of different tools to persuade the little devil; just use caution not to poke a hole in the new boot.
There's a top and bottom position. OEM has it marked for you.
Good luck. I always draw a little blood on this job.
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I am afraid its a 'right of passage' for any Airhead owner.
Great things will happen after you successfully get your boot on.
New horizons, New people will welcome you into their inner circle, you will get a feeling of great well being, people that you don't know will acknowledge your presence as a 'experten' from across the street, even.
And a serious lesson learned. I.e. Don't remove your boot unless you really have to!
I tend to secure one end, the larger one to the swing arm, noting the orientation and the tab on the swing arm. Clamp it into place. The get yourself comfortable, lying next to your bike (you might be there for a while) and try to get the other side of the boot onto the gear box, using some sort of flat lever (like a flat blade screw driver - only be careful not to scratch up the alloy on the gearbox). New ones are the worse. Perhaps try stretching it a bit and warming it up - to body temp only.
Cheers
Rev Light
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You know what ?
Last time I had to change the boot, it was VeRy easy ! so I thought I was lucky.
A friend (grin) of mine installed his little daughter on the saddle to show her how cool it was. She decided to go on the floor by herself and opened the boot with her shoe lace pin... My super nice boot lasted for less than a week....
So I envy you :-? ....
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Are the tabs on the swingarm intended as "stops", to prevent the boot sliding on too far?
The swingarm is on the bench right now, im only working on this end of the boot. Getting the boot on the swingarm is easy enough, I'm struggling with then getting the clamp on. I've had the boot under a 100w light bulb to warm it up.
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Al,
I start with securing the boot at the swingarm housing as Steve explains. The boot should have the word "oben" molded in it. That portion of the boot should go "up" or "above" and at the transmission side. Be sure to slide the boot under the metal tabs (tabs are on the top and bottom if my memory serves) on the swingarm and secure the strap under the tabs as well. Now you're half way home. Carefully work the front of the boot around the transmission housing and secure the strap.
As a footnote, I had trouble with the length of the strap screw not being long enough my about 2mm for the swingarm side and obtained a longer screw from the local hardware store. It lessened the frustration. And, my boot was ordered from Ted Porter at the Beemershop.
Here's a photo of the boot and strap under the metal tab.
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I have actually used a puncture repair kit as a bodge fix on one of these boots. It lasted ages.
In fact it was only my embarrassment at seeing the offending patch that made me change it for a new boot. It was only a little tear.
I felt better after..... ;)
Rev Light
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I just did this job this winter and found that having an extra set of hand on the other side of the bike to hold the boot in place while I moved it forward onto the transmission made a huge difference. Not sure if I could have gotten it by myself.
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I made myself a tool out of a small screwdriver.
You have to heat the end of the screwdriver in order to bend it, otherwise it just breaks off... :-[ lol!
It does not make the boot "slide on", but it is helpful.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F123172823%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=01644fd4db3ab61ba489665262e959f1d85d564a)
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As a footnote, I had trouble with the length of the strap screw not being long enough my about 2mm for the swingarm side and obtained a longer screw from the local hardware store.
Congratulations to your hardware store!
That is a unique little screw, as I recall.
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Congratulations to your hardware store!
That is a unique little screw, as I recall.
I see you can appreciate that little fact Rob. Marshall's Hardware Store - it's an Airhead Candy Store. If you have one in your area I highly recommend them. You have to visit one to understand. I replenish all my metric hardware, stainless and otherwise there. In this case; an additional 2mm made a big difference.
Let's not forget the importance of the driveshaft flange bolts for this operation. They should be replaced without washers. A torque wrench extension that can be obtained from different airhead suppliers makes things easier. If you do use the extension, don't forget to do the measurements and calculations for the adjusted torque bolt values.
Hope this link works showing the tool....
http://tinyurl.com/kq6nal2
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Thanks for all the tips, guys. I haven't had a chance to muck with it today.
Thanks for the pic, Mike V, I was trying to use the tabs on the swingarm as stops, rather than sliding the boot and clamp under them, so that seems like it will make a big difference.
I don't like the way the swingarm flange is tapered; doesn't seem like the best way to get a seal with the boot and a clamp that can't conform to the taper. But then who am I to second-guess those Bavarian engineers? ;D
BTW, Max is out of stock of their custom boots. The parts guy told me they have only had one batch of 5 which sold out and they're due for another batch next month. So not much of a track record with those yet.
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Al,
You bring up a good point - the flange or opening on the swingarm where the boot attaches is definately asymetrical in shape. It's not your imagination. But, if you're careful getting the boot slid on, it will seal with the help of the clamp. That was noticable during my installation also.
Keep us in the loop...
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My method for "torquing" the 4 driveshaft flange screws is to use the 10x12 mm ring spanner included in the OEM tool kit.
The rear brake has to be assembled for this.
Get all four (generally new) screws threaded into their respective CLEAN threads and all snugged up evenly.
Put on a leather work glove, and with substantial shoes on, put the 10mm ring spanner on the first screw with the screw at about 1 o'clock (with the "clock" being the output flange).
Stomp down on the foot brake as hard as you can and push down on the short 10mm spanner with all your might.
Repeat for the other three screws.
I NEVER in 35 years had a screw come loose using this method.
If you don't have the OEM spanner, they are available, part # 71 11 1 237 847. ($12.27 USD)
Just beware - these fine quality tools are addictive! If you don't already have a complete set, you will begin trying to rationalize getting one!
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My driveshaft flange screw install and torque down is just like Rob's. [smiley=thumbup.gif]
And whenever the shop or tech article states, "Use the special factory tool..." I start knocking together my own "special tool" which usually turns out to involve whacking a large diameter socket with a stout hammer.
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I think we should create a club with in a club:
"The Order of the Airhead Drive Shaft Boot"
Members may wear a t-shirt proclaiming how many times they have successfully removed and refitted a boot without damaging it.
Special handshake, secret dinners at posh venues, and everything ::)
Better have another one for removal of head set bearings, though.
But perhaps not for setting up ATE swinging calipers..... ;)
Cheers
Rev Light
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I think we should create a club with in a club:
"The Order of the Airhead Drive Shaft Boot"
Damn I just missed my chance to join. But the good news is that my final drive AND transmission both need attention. :-/
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Get all four (generally new) screws threaded into their respective CLEAN threads and all snugged up evenly.
Whilst I absolutely agree with 99% of what you say (I am actually having a great discussion in a car forum atm trying to convince someone that in general it is far far more preferable to have bolts in drive flanges, cylinder heads etc as near the same torque as possible than it is to be within a bull's roar of the quote torque figure (within reason of course).
The one thing I do disagree with you on is the use of second hand bolts. These bolts are correctly torqued to or just beyond their yield point, they therefore really only have one "safe" use in them. For the minimal cost involved I would always use new bolts here (and I never spend a cent unless I really think it is necessary). The other thing I'd mention is that in spite of what the various shop manuals tell you, and indeed in spite of what BMW says, there have been a number of different types of bolts used on the gearbox drive flange - some with washers, some without. some of the bolts that came with washers, appear to the same as the bolts that do not.
I do agree with BMW's findings that you are better off using a chemical retention solution than a washer, please do not reuse bolts and if you happen to buy a set that come with washers, send them back, do not simply use them w/o washers.
I clean the blue locking compound off and fit to clean dry threads using Loctite "super studlock" - but that is personal preference.
I've never had a bolt I did up come out, but I ended up with a driveshaft full of bolts and washers courtesy of faulty workmanship by a BMW dealer way, way back when my R100 was new - It went in for a warranty on the gearbox and 2000km later the flange bolts fell out.
Mind you, a few thousand kilometers later the flange came off the output shaft as well. I fixed that myself as I did not trust the dealer to properly re-lap the shaft and flange to restore the taper. Took most of a day until the coat of Prussian blue said that the taper was as near as dammit perfect, I bolted it up and it has stayed together since so I must have got it right.
Marked the last time my R100 darkened the door of a dealership workshop too.
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Didn't you see "generally new"?
I never used them twice. I never used thread locking compound, either.
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Al,
a little bit of oil on the boot will help things slide along, but you have to be careful and keep the oil away from surfaces that you want to grip.
I had pulled the front of the boot from the trans when I got my bike to look inside and had a bit of a time getting it back in. As I recall the method that ending up working (might help with the swingarm end too) involved pressing my thumbs into the outside of the boot to both try to make the boot yawn a little and to use my thumbs like hooks to pull the boot over the flange.
Performing a couple 12oz curls [smiley=beer.gif] will help get you into shape for this one
Now if only those Bavarian engineers had had a look over at the Japanese. They'd have put a couple tabs at the ends of the boot that you can grab to pull the boot over the flanges.
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Ok, I'm back. I got longer screws at the hardware store:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1350.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp763%2Facarey3%2FDSCN1186_zps94310c66.jpg&hash=fe522c3eac893c03c2c043fd19fb31fdaf70ac61) (http://s1350.photobucket.com/user/acarey3/media/DSCN1186_zps94310c66.jpg.html)
Using one of those I was able to get the clamp on easily. I can't see it ever pulling off, and I doubt it will leak, but I still don't like that the swingarm's mating surface is more conical than cylindrical. I tried to get a picture showing the way the clamp distorts trying to conform to the swing arm profile:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1350.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp763%2Facarey3%2FDSCN1188_zpsc392bca0.jpg&hash=fbbe9115aec5944a71018d9e112b6774712a04d3) (http://s1350.photobucket.com/user/acarey3/media/DSCN1188_zpsc392bca0.jpg.html)
Looking at pictures of other swing arms for sale on eBay, it seems like at some point the "flange" was made more cylindrical.
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Mine was not round. No biggie. The clamp can take it.