The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Armen on April 08, 2013, 10:04:57 PM
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Looking for the vibration damper motor mounts Luftmeister used to sell. A new, or really nice set, of course : )
Or if anyone has a simmilar fix. I've seen the articles on sawing up Chevy motor mounts. No thanks.
Not asking for permission, only product : )
thanks,
-Armen
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Don't waste the time effort and money on the Luftmeister mounts, they really didn't do anything .
I had them, after about 10 years or so, the rubber disbonded from the metal parts and they were useless .
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Kinda why I said 'not asking for permission'.
They totally transformed the bike from unridable in the midrange to real nice. Yes, after time most things wear out.
Mine are almost 30 years old. Want a new set.
-Armen
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I took the forums advice and put the solid spacers back in, after experimenting with torque settings to no good effect I replaced the vibration dampeners.
They work great for me and I have had no handling or frame cracking issues in over 25 years.
I have previously posted the replacement rubber donut part number and the recomended torque settings and will repost them when I track them down.
Cheers
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Okay, you are after 'David Brown Cone-Ring Couplings' spare parts. The donuts are available in rubber part number 0860 1906 or urethane part number 0037 6006.
I use the rubber ones and they last between 5 to 10 years. I bought them from Blackwoods in Australia. They are an engineering supply chain.
Torque the front engine nuts (where the rubber spacers are) to 10 -12 lb/ft and the rear (solid) engine mount nuts to 65 lb/ft.
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Thanks!
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FWIW:
On my '91 R100, the mirrors became useless at speeds above 70 mph. Putting in the donuts made the ride so much smoother. I made a set of frame braces a la San Jose and installed them. Any frame rigidity lost to the rubber donuts was more than made up for. Never rode a bike that feels as secure as this one : )
-Armen
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Rather than going that route, I'd recommend balancing and tuning the engine. Start off balancing all rotating parts - clutch, alternator rotor, rods and pistons. And then careful tuning.
My airheads (all sizes including the R65) are practically vibration free. These motors do tend to have a few RPMs where oscillations add up and the best that can be done is minimize them, but otherwise they can be very smooth. My R65 (now an 850) used to vibrate pretty badly between four and five K, but after some recent work only tingles the feet a little in that range.
Fix the source rather than handling the symptoms.
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On the R65 I used light weight wrist pins, balanced each part (piston, rod cap, rod big end) to .1 gram of each other. Twin plugged it. Rebuilt carbs. Sent out the clutch/flywheel assembly and had them high speed balanced and match-marked, and so on. It still buzzed enough to make me crazy.
I was working in a BMW shop at the time. They all buzzed.
Some people just have more tolerance for vibration.
All the '81 and newer big twins buzz more than the old one. The lighter flywheels don't soak up as much vibration as the old boat anchor ones.
I ran the rubber donuts on my R65 for 30+ thousand miles with no grief.
On my R100, I made a set of San Jose style frame side braces. The bike felt as though it had a hinge under the tank in stock condition, and the rubber donuts made it worse. With the donuts (I found a NOS set) and the frame braces, the bike is super smooth and flex-free.
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It seems like Armen found his rubber donuts? I'll move this to the tech section since it has some reference part info that could be helpful to others.
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[movedhere] Trading Post [move by] nhmaf.
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Dug through the McMaster Carr catalog and put together an assortment of rubber washers and such to try and make my own donuts. I think I have a combo that will work.
The early '80s BMWMOA had an article on making your own by sawing up the motor mounts from a '57 Chevy. I ordered up some of those, but cutting them is a screaming pain in the ass and look like a beaver with chipped teeth had a go at them.
Next time the R100 is on the lift, I'll try my home-made ones and see how they behave. If I like what I see/feel, I'll post part numbers.
YMMV
-Armen
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Has anyone ever done a comprehensive write-up on the David Brown Cone ring couplers? It sounds like the best thing since sliced bread, but I think I'd want a bit more explanation of the process involved and a photo or two before I dived into it.
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Okay, you are after 'David Brown Cone-Ring Couplings' spare parts. The donuts are available in rubber part number 0860 1906 or urethane part number 0037 6006.
Thank you for that one. Out of curiosity I put the part numbers into the Blackwoods web site and asked to receive a quote. Just before lunch today I got an email from Blackwoods to let me know that their local to me (Cairns) office had stock. I went there at lunch time and $6.30 later I have a pair of "standard' rubbers and a set of Urethane ones.
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Took me a little longer to find them, I could read 'David Brown' on the old perished ones so I went to a tractor supplies shop. Luckily he knew that they had probably come from the cone ring couplers and sent me in the right direction. I had to order mine.
Glad I could help, I find the dampener setup worth while.
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Anyone find thes coupling rubbers in the UK ?
I've tried without success.
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Barry,
It would seem they are David Brown items, I live a couple of miles from the David Brown factory and have a mate who works there, I'll try and find out, sounds like a worthwhile upgrade.
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So, do the donuts somehow fit in where the 5mm spacer washers are currently? I'm totally mystified.
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Barry,
It would seem they are David Brown items, I live a couple of miles from the David Brown factory and have a mate who works there, I'll try and find out, sounds like a worthwhile upgrade.
Thanks Chris.
I know what a cone ring coupling looks like. Pic shows one half of a coupling with the rubbers.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackwoods.com.au%2Fcontent%2Fimages%2Fpart%2F100%2F654112023893888.jpg&hash=3f7e2023ffd8ef5068cfcf773e7c3ac1d909015c)
I am unclear though if it's a David Brown Tractor spare or a David Brown Transmission spare. According to a Farmer friend David Brown Tractors are not the most common in the UK and he said the spares web site is rubbish. David Brown Transmissions on the other hand is so big I doubt they are much interested in old tech couplings.
So, do the donuts somehow fit in where the 5mm spacer washers are currently?I'm totally mystified.
They replace the spacers on the front engine mounts only. The nuts are then very lightly torqued up so as not to distort the frame and then thread locked or double nutted. I've never seen exact dimensions but I imagine they would have to be the same bore and length as the exiting spacers. Diameter I guess could be bigger.
It's hard to see from the pic but thinking about how a pin and bush coupling works they may convoluted rather than just plain rubber bushes.
Anybody confirm that ?
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I may have found a UK supplier who were part of David Brown.
I have sent an enquiry through, they are local to me, so collection should be easy if they can source the product!
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Barry,
It would seem they are David Brown items, I live a couple of miles from the David Brown factory and have a mate who works there, I'll try and find out, sounds like a worthwhile upgrade.
Ok, here is a (poor) scan of the two "rubber" and two "urethane" couplers I purchased on Monday.
I should have also scanned the "BMW" ones that were still on my rebuild project - allowing for the fact that the originals are nearly 30 years old, I reckon the David Brown ones look identical.
Anyway, if people are genuinely unable to source them near to home PM me and I will buy a few more and dispatch them at cost.
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Hi
I 've had a Lufty set of dampners on my R65 for years. Makes a world of difference. No cracks yet.
I found mine on eBay. Good luck.
Ps - I almost forgot about the 4-5000 rpm buzz. Haven't felt it n years. But no worries - I have BSAs now to remind me of VIbRaTiOn.
(yesh yesh) :D
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I have been contacted by the company that makes these.
If you want to let me know if these are what you are looking for, I can now source them.
Cheers
Chris
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Hi Lads,
Can someone explain what these are used for and where they fit ?
Many thanks in advance
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They were an aftermarket product sold by Luftmeister to reduce the midrange buzz. They replace the metal washers that go between the frame and the engine on the front engine mount with a rubber bushing. The engine mount is then lightly torqued, and the mounting stud double-nutted (or in other words, a jam nut is attached) on both sides to keep everything in place.
This reduces tension on the frame a bit and also lets the engine move around a little more (but it is damped by the rubber). This is why some people say the rubber donuts will negatively impact handling (less frame rigidity) and can lead to frame cracking issues. As always, YMMV
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Thanks for the explanation !
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I can confirm that the ring coupler rubbers are not David Brown Tractor parts, they ARE David Brown Transmission parts, its a different company.
The idea is to remove only the front 5mm spacers (ONE at a time) and replace them with a rubber sandwiched in between 2 steel washers, 1 assembly on each side. The nuts on this engine mount are torqued up to only 12 lb/ft torque, use loktite!
The rear mounts are torqued to the factory specs, of the top of my head 48 to 52 lb/ft.
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Well, I e-mailed Blackwoods a few days ago to ask if they'd ship to North America or if there is a dealership here, but no answer. I'd like to try out the 0860 1906 washers. So that looks like a dead end.
Aegis, I'm a bit puzzled on the cone rings that you show on the Series X sheet. The "N" dimension of 7.6mm looks like it might be squeezed into the space where the current spacer is. Is a person supposed to cut the rubber unit into 3 bits and then use just 2 of them? (I'm still a bit mystified).
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quixotic,
I'm not sure how they work, one of the members on here (Barry) asked if anyone could source these in the UK, I found a (the?) supplier very close to where I live in Yorkshire.
They sent me this spec sheet, so the product is available if required.
We need some of the resident experts to shed light on this...
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Thanks for starting this thread. I just finished making a home made version of the idea and installed in my bike. I have to admit these things work and the vibration is about 70% gone. No vibration in the handlebars or foot pegs. At 60 Km it is super smooth.
I sandwiched about an inch dia hard rubber bushing between two cup washers that I had lying around and the whole job took me less than half an hour to finish. It is worth it. Try this if you are looking for that super smooth ride.
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Glad it worked for you. I worked at a BMW dealer when the R65s were new. More than a few people traded R65s in or sold them because the vibration was so intolerable.
Used the donuts for 10s of thousands of miles on the R65, and now over 10K on my R100.
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Thanks for starting this thread.I just finished making a home made version of the idea and installed in my bike.I have to admit these things work and the vibration is about 70% gone.No vibration in the handlebars or foot pegs. At 60 Km it is super smooth.
I sandwiched about an inch dia hard rubber bushing between two cup washers that I had lying around and the whole job took me less than half an hour to finish.It is worth it. Try this if you are looking for that super smooth ride.
I'm intrigued. Did you just cut up some conventional engine mount material in the size and shape of the existing 5mm washers? And would the cup washer really be necessary? I'm not finding much (other than the flimsy things used for wood screws) on the internet, and so I wonder if some large conventional washers would do the trick instead.
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I Have been following this thread with interest. I have not yet been successful in sourcing the David Brown cone ring couplings in Canada. One question I have relates to the installation .Do you sandwich the couplings between 2 cupped washers before slipping them into place into place.
Best Regards to all John Muir
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My set of dampers came with flat washers, and yes you sandwic h the rubber ring between 2 washers.
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Thanks for the prompt response, now I just have to find a source .
Regards John
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I have found a possible supplier for the David Brown cone ring donuts in Canada , however they need to know the specific cone ring couplings that the donuts part numbers posted here apply to.
Any help would be much appreciated. Best Regards John Muir
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I don't have any info here in New Zealand, my piece of paper is back in Australia and I wont be home till Christmas, just give them the part numbers below. Surely that should be enough info.
The donuts are available in rubber part number 0860 1906 or urethane part number 0037 6006.
OK I googled the catalogue
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/56e4da69?x=1337125368412#/56e4da69/1040
Seems the're off a David Brown Cone Ring Couplings-TaperLock-MCT. Part number MCT042-12. Which uses the GC1/4 cone rings that you need, part numbers as above. A full set for the above coupling has 24 donuts, so only order the 2 you need and maybe a few spares, they will last at least 5 years I guess.
Cheers Bruce
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Thank You Bruce. I will forward that information to my supplier and see what comes of it. Best Regards John Muir
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Sorry Ivan, it took me a while to reply to your post, got busy with some midterms.
Here are a couple of pics of the spacers I made for my bike. They are working good for me. I used tie end rod rubber cut in half and sandwiched between two cup washers (any solid rubber should do). I glued the washers to the rubber for the ease of installation.
All the stuff can be acquired from some parts retail or Ebay. The overall thickness including washers is about 1cm. After tightening up in the frame the rubber gets squished between the washers and it goes to about the same size as regional spacers. Hope it helps.